EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle - Page 2


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 35 of 35

Thread: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

  1. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by John-Nicholas View Post
    In no way would I consider myself an expert... but I do remember seeing someone adding 220 to their shop and they had to replace the plastic conduit with metal and run individual wires. Previously they were going to run romex through the plastic conduit. I do not recall what the issue was (maybe a grounding issues??) but it might be worth looking into.

    Another area to consider is the dust collector, is the flexible tube properly grounded?
    That would make no difference what's so ever Conduit is Conduit, or what wire you run in it, it is amazing what people will say

    Mactec54


  2. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by cholme View Post
    I would love to find out what is actually going on. I don't know if photos will explain very much, but I will try to explain how it is setup and wired.

    Here is what I have:
    X-Carve with upgraded rails, and gantry (aluminum rails with linear bearings)
    2.2kw water cooled spindle 220v

    I am on household 220v

    My spindle is wired with #18 awg, braided sheilded wire. Pins 1,2,3 are wired to U,V,W on the VFD. The shielding is grounded at the VFD. Pin 4 I tried both running to the ground on the VFD and I tried it not wired to anything. (same results on both)
    My VFD is wired directly to a dedicated 220v breaker (Black, Black, Green - Hot, Hot, Ground)

    I'm not sure what other info is needed. I don't want anything to be unsafe and can't imagine what could possibly wrong.

    Attachment 465286
    So you have mounted the VFD on the wall with is own 240v Single Phase Power Supply and you have another 120v supply for the rest of your machines requirement's

    By doing this you have a formed Ground loop and this is where some of your problems are coming from

    I need close up photos of the VFD Drive wiring and the control box wiring to see how we can correct this

    Mactec54


  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    18 awg. would be a little light for a 2.2Kw spindle

    Mactec54


  4. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    485
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    My water spindle is wired similarly: 1,2,3,4 is U, W, V, then ground. Swapped W and V to reverse. Using a 220 line to an old heat pump with its own breaker. Also have the outside of the spindle grounded for extra precaution. Machine is plugged into a standard 110 outlet.

    I never had a problem.

    Many other differences like I’m using a relay circuit to start the spindle off Pokeys57cnc that is attached to a pc using an Ethernet cable running Mach4. CAM is vectric.

    Seems like there are many signals and screens in Mach to debug this. Especially if it happens every time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



  5. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Dean448 View Post
    My water spindle is wired similarly: 1,2,3,4 is U, W, V, then ground. Swapped W and V to reverse. Using a 220 line to an old heat pump with its own breaker. Also have the outside of the spindle grounded for extra precaution. Machine is plugged into a standard 110 outlet.

    I never had a problem.

    Many other differences like I’m using a relay circuit to start the spindle off Pokeys57cnc that is attached to a pc using an Ethernet cable running Mach4. CAM is vectric.

    Seems like there are many signals and screens in Mach to debug this. Especially if it happens every time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You are using a 120v / 240v in NA there is no such thing as a 220v or 110v in NA

    It may work, but you have a Ground loop which means your Grounding system is compromised and would not pass code

    Mactec54


  6. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Yes... 240 v (measures at 239ish)

    How can I troubleshoot the grounding loop? I can't figure out where it would be creating a loop? Currently, the control board is plugged into a 120v line and thus is grounded there. The machine rails and gantry are grounded to the 240v line ground, and the spindle is grounded to the the 240v ground.

    The setups I have tried have had the rails etc. grounded to the control board... The rails etc. not grounded to anything... The spindle (before I separated it with the phenolic plate) grounded to the control board... spindle grounded to vfd. I think I tried every combo of grounding I could think of.

    What am I missing? Are there any tricks to finding grounding loops?



  7. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by cholme View Post
    Yes... 240 v (measures at 239ish)

    How can I troubleshoot the grounding loop? I can't figure out where it would be creating a loop? Currently, the control board is plugged into a 120v line and thus is grounded there. The machine rails and gantry are grounded to the 240v line ground, and the spindle is grounded to the the 240v ground.

    The setups I have tried have had the rails etc. grounded to the control board... The rails etc. not grounded to anything... The spindle (before I separated it with the phenolic plate) grounded to the control board... spindle grounded to vfd. I think I tried every combo of grounding I could think of.

    What am I missing? Are there any tricks to finding grounding loops?
    You really have it quite messed up Grounding is simple just has to be done correctly

    You are using ( 2 ) power source's a 120v supply and a 240v supply for ( 1 ) machine you have ( 2 ) separate Grounds ( 1 ) Ground for the 120v supply and ( 1 ) Ground for the 240v supply this is where your Ground loop comes from, a Ground loop is formed when you use ( 2 ) different supplies for the same machine

    You should only have ( 1 ) power supply source for your machine

    How do you fix this you use a 240v 4 wire supply this is the correct way to do it and the only way to avoid a Ground loop

    So the 240v supply will have 2 Hot a Neutral and Ground, which will give you 240v / 120v supply for your machine you split it up from there to where it needs to go

    You VFD Drive also needs to be mounted in a metal Box also or at the least on an aluminum / steel plate so this can be the Ground Plane

    And a EMI Power Filter at the VFD Drive supply input will be needed, this is the Power Filter you need

    TDK Lambda RSEN-2030L There are no substitutes these are the best EMI Power Filter for your install

    None of these things will change until the VFD Drive is mounted correctly and the Power supply is corrected

    So first figure out your 240v main power supply 4 wire should be a minimum of 25A supply 30A is better for your machine, and I will help you get the rest of your wiring done how it should be

    Will need photos as you progress

    Mactec54


  8. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Awesome!!!! Thanks so much! So many people I have talked to have been insistent that the spindle and control board need to be on separate circuits… I didn’t give that a second thought.

    I’ll post as I get to make the changes.

    Thanks so much!

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You really have it quite messed up Grounding is simple just has to be done correctly

    You are using ( 2 ) power source's a 120v supply and a 240v supply for ( 1 ) machine you have ( 2 ) separate Grounds ( 1 ) Ground for the 120v supply and ( 1 ) Ground for the 240v supply this is where your Ground loop comes from, a Ground loop is formed when you use ( 2 ) different supplies for the same machine

    You should only have ( 1 ) power supply source for your machine

    How do you fix this you use a 240v 4 wire supply this is the correct way to do it and the only way to avoid a Ground loop

    So the 240v supply will have 2 Hot a Neutral and Ground, which will give you 240v / 120v supply for your machine you split it up from there to where it needs to go

    You VFD Drive also needs to be mounted in a metal Box also or at the least on an aluminum / steel plate so this can be the Ground Plane

    And a EMI Power Filter at the VFD Drive supply input will be needed, this is the Power Filter you need

    TDK Lambda RSEN-2030L There are no substitutes these are the best EMI Power Filter for your install

    None of these things will change until the VFD Drive is mounted correctly and the Power supply is corrected

    So first figure out your 240v main power supply 4 wire should be a minimum of 25A supply 30A is better for your machine, and I will help you get the rest of your wiring done how it should be

    Will need photos as you progress




  9. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by cholme View Post
    Awesome!!!! Thanks so much! So many people I have talked to have been insistent that the spindle and control board need to be on separate circuits… I didn’t give that a second thought.

    I’ll post as I get to make the changes.

    Thanks so much!
    Not many people understand, and there are plenty that will give you an uneducated guess, of what they think will work, which in most cases is incorrect

    Can you imagine a Company selling a CNC machine or any type of machine and telling the customer that you will need a 240v service and a 120v service to run there machine this is not going to happen, in reality, NA is the only part of the world that uses 120v Single Phase all the rest use 220v / 230 / 240v for single Phase so most will never have to encounter this problem, the Best for anyone in NA that is Building a Machine is to use 240v for everything

    You have a lot of little things that need to be corrected, so start with the 240v Power service, then we will move to the EMI Power Filter and the mounting of the VFD Drive either in a Box or on a metal plate this plate needs to be big enough for the Power filter and a breaker for the 120v supply and a place to mount a Ground Bus

    A Box with a fan is best as this will help to keep the dust out of the VFD Drive, they don't last very long if they can suck in any dust, if a Box this can be plastic but must have a metal Plate inside that everything is mounted on

    Mactec54


  10. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    A Box with a fan is best as this will help to keep the dust out of the VFD Drive, they don't last very long if they can suck in any dust, if a Box this can be plastic but must have a metal Plate inside that everything is mounted on
    If there a particular enclosure that you have used?



  11. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by cholme View Post
    If there a particular enclosure that you have used?
    I make my own custom for each build, but any Metal enclosure that you can fit everything in, they are never big enough so don't get it to small, you can find some good deals on used and new boxes on eBay, they may have holes and cutout that you can fill, make sure it is deep enough as well so figure out some rough dimension's and see what is close to what you need so if you measure your VFD Drive how tall it is and add 2" that should be how deep you want the box to be Plastic enclosures are ok as well as long as they have a metal mounting plate inside

    Mactec54


  12. #32
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    485
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    So this thread has gone on for almost a month. The original issues is the machine stops mid program. Then this ground loop theory came up, even though my machine is set up exactly the same and I apparently also have ground looping, but have never had an issue.

    It would be great if after all these changes are made that we hear if the original problem is solved.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



  13. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Dean448 View Post
    So this thread has gone on for almost a month. The original issues is the machine stops mid program. Then this ground loop theory came up, even though my machine is set up exactly the same and I apparently also have ground looping, but have never had an issue.

    It would be great if after all these changes are made that we hear if the original problem is solved.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It is not a Ground loop theory, I'm sure his problem will be solved and his wiring will be to code

    Mactec54


  14. #34
    Member machinehop5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1044
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    2

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Dean448 View Post
    So this thread has gone on for almost a month. The original issues is the machine stops mid program. Then this ground loop theory came up, even though my machine is set up exactly the same and I apparently also have ground looping, but have never had an issue.

    It would be great if after all these changes are made that we hear if the original problem is solved.
    ..my money is still on the USB Interface...for 99 to 1 odds is catching EMI or just to slow PC



  15. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12527
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by machinehop5 View Post
    ..my money is still on the USB Interface...for 99 to 1 odds is catching EMI or just to slow PC
    It most likely is but you have to fix the EMI problem first, when you have to isolate the Spindle you have some serious wiring problems

    Mactec54


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle

EMI noise, grounding, connection problems with new VFD 2.2kw spindle