Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD


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Thread: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

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    Default Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Hi

    I am buying now a new spindle, 40000 rpm, 3.3kw, running at 1333H, 4 poles. I would need to buy also a VFD, but the budget is tight, so I was wondering if it would make sense to use instead of VFD a servo drive(s) tat is idle anyway: A Sew Eurodrive MDX61B0150-503-4-0T and a mxa81a-024-503. Now i do not ask here anyone to look into them but just if anyone had experience and success with spindle with servo drive. else might not spend time to figure out it does not work

    thank you
    Marius

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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    If the servo is up to the task, size-wise, then it should work and is often done where say a C axis is required on a lathe for e.g..or similar spindle co-ordination is required on a Mill.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by nicubila View Post
    Hi

    I am buying now a new spindle, 40000 rpm, 3.3kw, running at 1333H, 4 poles. I would need to buy also a VFD, but the budget is tight, so I was wondering if it would make sense to use instead of VFD a servo drive(s) tat is idle anyway: A Sew Eurodrive MDX61B0150-503-4-0T and a mxa81a-024-503. Now i do not ask here anyone to look into them but just if anyone had experience and success with spindle with servo drive. else might not spend time to figure out it does not work

    thank you
    Marius
    No the servo drive is not going to be a replacement for a VFD Drive

    Do you have a link to the spindle your where thinking about do you need 40,000 RPM @ 4 pole

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Hi

    this would be the spindle:
    KLB-80E / KLB-80E1
    3.3kW Water Cooled CNC Milling Spindle Ball Bearing Spindle 40000 RPM

    I have been reading for a few hours the sew eurodrive manual and the time to learn to set it up (plus the risk to fry the spindle) might not be though worth the cost of a drive as below, unless i get some good insights

    https://automationstore.it/en/catego...hp-hs-c-4.html
    with canopen card
    https://deltaacdrives.com/delta-ms30...ory-cmm-cop01/
    hopefully to connect to my Delta NC300 controller

    i might better try to sell the extra drives

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi

    this would be the spindle:
    http://www.klkjgroup.com/english.php/Product/detail/id/93
    http://www.cnchighspeedspindle.com/sale-2184333-3-3kw-water-cooled-cnc-milling-spindle-ball-bearing-spindle-40000-rpm.html

    I have been reading for a few hours the sew eurodrive manual and the time to learn to set it up (plus the risk to fry the spindle) might not be though worth the cost of a drive as below, unless i get some good insights

    https://automationstore.it/en/categories/850-vfd-l-ac-motor-drives-3ph-230v-5hp-hs-c-4.html
    with canopen card
    https://deltaacdrives.com/delta-ms300-accessory-cmm-cop01/
    hopefully to connect to my Delta NC300 controller

    i might better try to sell the extra drives



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by nicubila View Post
    Hi

    this would be the spindle:

    i might better try to sell the extra drives
    I have used a Fanuc servo motors for spindles, using a BLDC drive very successfully.
    They won't however run a 40k AC motor spindle.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    This is the other way around of what I intend to do.



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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by nicubila View Post
    Hi

    this would be the spindle:
    KLB-80E / KLB-80E1
    3.3kW Water Cooled CNC Milling Spindle Ball Bearing Spindle 40000 RPM

    I have been reading for a few hours the sew eurodrive manual and the time to learn to set it up (plus the risk to fry the spindle) might not be though worth the cost of a drive as below, unless i get some good insights

    https://automationstore.it/en/catego...hp-hs-c-4.html
    with canopen card
    https://deltaacdrives.com/delta-ms30...ory-cmm-cop01/
    hopefully to connect to my Delta NC300 controller



    i might better try to sell the extra drives

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi

    this would be the spindle:
    KLB-80E / KLB-80E1
    http://www.cnchighspeedspindle.com/s...40000-rpm.html

    I have been reading for a few hours the sew eurodrive manual and the time to learn to set it up (plus the risk to fry the spindle) might not be though worth the cost of a drive as below, unless i get some good insights

    https://automationstore.it/en/catego...hp-hs-c-4.html
    with canopen card
    https://deltaacdrives.com/delta-ms30...ory-cmm-cop01/
    hopefully to connect to my Delta NC300 controller

    i might better try to sell the extra drives
    You have not choice but to use a VFD Drive make sure the spindle Voltage is the same as the VFD Drive and get the VFD Drive at least 1Hp more than the spindle Hp rating and enough Hz to run your spindle

    Yes this VFD Drive would do the job Delta MS300 VFD17AMS23ANSHA if you are using 3 Phase Power, if using Single Phase then you will need a larger Hp rated VFD Drive

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You have not choice but to use a VFD Drive make sure the spindle Voltage is the same as the VFD Drive and get the VFD Drive at least 1Hp more than the spindle Hp rating and enough Hz to run your spindle

    Yes this VFD Drive would do the job Delta MS300 VFD17AMS23ANSHA if you are using 3 Phase Power, if using Single Phase then you will need a larger Hp rated VFD Drive
    Seems like there is a shortage of the Delta inverters 3 phase, so the spindle manufacturer offered me the 7.5kw version for 310usd, so more than satisfied. another 50usd for the canopen module, hoping I can make it work with the controller.
    all in all, including shipping and a few extra tool holders and collets i can stay in the 2500usd range, more than reasonable. I still have the current spindle as a backup (already some strange noises come out of the bearings), but cannot afford to have the router idle for long.

    As neither the manufacturer nor other people here ha supportive ideas for the Servo Drive+Spindle, I am not ready to risk the frying . 300usd far too little for the risk.

    also, need to mention, is the peace of mind that I choose the option that sounds more reasonable at this point in time. So thanks a lot for the help



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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by nicubila View Post
    Seems like there is a shortage of the Delta inverters 3 phase, so the spindle manufacturer offered me the 7.5kw version for 310usd, so more than satisfied. another 50usd for the canopen module, hoping I can make it work with the controller.
    all in all, including shipping and a few extra tool holders and collets i can stay in the 2500usd range, more than reasonable. I still have the current spindle as a backup (already some strange noises come out of the bearings), but cannot afford to have the router idle for long.

    As neither the manufacturer nor other people here ha supportive ideas for the Servo Drive+Spindle, I am not ready to risk the frying . 300usd far too little for the risk.

    also, need to mention, is the peace of mind that I choose the option that sounds more reasonable at this point in time. So thanks a lot for the help
    The servo drive will never work with your AC 3 phase spindle motor, I'm not sure where you would get such an idea from

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Does it sound such a strange thing from someone with not so much motors and servo knowledge? even some more knowledgeable people expressed possibility. Should i have asked if i can replace VFD with a DC power supply, then would have been stranger. Still, I think this is a place to ask also stupid questions, is part of the learning process.
    anyway, i do not understand how one cannot see how other people are less knowledgeable and make strange connections in their mind. (rhetoric)



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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    I have used a Fanuc servo motors for spindles, using a BLDC drive very successfully.
    Hi Al,
    That is fanuc spindle motor or fanuc axis motor ?



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by asuratman View Post
    Hi Al,
    That is fanuc spindle motor or fanuc axis motor ?
    I used a Fanuc servo motor, but due to the commutation pulses on the encoder being proprietary, I replaced it with through-hole encoder that had standard BLDC commutation tracks on it, (Renco) it replaces the Fanuc encoder with a simple machined shoulder bolt.
    I then used a BLDC servo drive for it.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by nicubila View Post
    Does it sound such a strange thing from someone with not so much motors and servo knowledge? even some more knowledgeable people expressed possibility. Should i have asked if i can replace VFD with a DC power supply, then would have been stranger. Still, I think this is a place to ask also stupid questions, is part of the learning process.
    anyway, i do not understand how one cannot see how other people are less knowledgeable and make strange connections in their mind. (rhetoric)
    Then take there advice and damage your spindle motor, a Servo Drive is never going to drive a high frequency AC 3 phase induction motor, there is no possibility, there knowledge they gave you is incorrect

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Then take there advice and damage your spindle motor, a Servo Drive is never going to drive a high frequency AC 3 phase induction motor, there is no possibility, there knowledge they gave you is incorrect
    What I asked and what you answered. Do you see they are 2 totally different things? I asked what is wrong to ask stupid question, you reply that i should use the spindle with the drive
    do you do this often in your life? avoid what is asked and give the answer that justifies your moral position?



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    Default Re: Spindle with Servo driver instead of VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by nicubila View Post
    What I asked and what you answered. Do you see they are 2 totally different things? I asked what is wrong to ask stupid question, you reply that i should use the spindle with the drive
    do you do this often in your life? avoid what is asked and give the answer that justifies your moral position?
    No that is not what I posted

    This think you misunderstand what has been posted

    Mactec54


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