Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points


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    Default Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    After years (about 7) using a router and SuperPID, I have just completed an upgrade (rebuild) of my CNC and decided it is time to switch to a spindle.
    After reading a lot of posts and taking Mactek54's advice I ordered one with Pin4 grounded and ceramic bearings. This one in fact. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3280...72fa522dJJL7jJ

    Now I'm trying to get ready to install it so am looking for guidance on a couple of things.

    1. According to the chart at the bottom of this post, it looks like a 20 breaker would be enough. Is that correct or should I go with a 30 amp?

    2. Is 18/4 shielded wire ok for connection from VFD to spindle. It would be about 25 feet in total.

    3. I copied these settings from another post a while back - I think from a post by Mactec54 but not sure. Are these settings still good?

    D000=0 for Parameter unlock ( 1 ) for Parameter Lock

    PD001=0 (1 For Remote Control)

    PD002=0 ( 1 For 0-10v Terminal Control or Remote Trim Pot Control )
    ( J1 Also Needs to be set for Terminal Control )

    PD003=400

    PD004=400

    PD005=400

    PD007=20

    PD008=220 (Motor Rated Voltage, If you have 120v spindle then set to 120v )

    PD009=15

    PD010=8

    PD011=120 ( 100 Minimum Setting with Quality VFD, 120 is Safe)

    PD13= 08 is for Factory reset, Only use this to set VFD to Factory Default Settings

    PD014 Acceleration=12 ( Adjust to suit)

    PD015 Deceleration=12 (Adjust to suit)

    ( PD15 is ignored IF PD26=1 Then the Spindle will Coast to a Stop)

    PD141=220 ( Motor Rated Voltage ) (120 for VFD Rated for 120v )

    PD142= ( Motor Max Amps)

    PD142=( 220vSet for your motor Amp Rating 2.2Kw Spindle 9 amp )

    PD142=( 220VSet for your motor Amp Rating 1.5Kw Spindle 7 amp )

    PD142=( 220v Set for your motor Amps Rating 800w Spindle 4 amps )

    PD142=( 120v Set for your motor Amp Rating 800w Spindle 7 amp )

    PD143=2 ( Motor Number of Poles)

    PD144=3000 (Max Motor RPM) =3,000= (24,000)

    PD70=0 ( This may need to be set to 1 if Control Voltage is 0-5v )

    PD72=400

    PD73=120 ( 100 Minimum Setting )

    Anything I am missing?
    Thanks for any input.

    Similar Threads:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-amp-requirements-jpg  


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by SamHam View Post
    After years (about 7) using a router and SuperPID, I have just completed an upgrade (rebuild) of my CNC and decided it is time to switch to a spindle.
    After reading a lot of posts and taking Mactek54's advice I ordered one with Pin4 grounded and ceramic bearings. This one in fact. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3280...72fa522dJJL7jJ

    Now I'm trying to get ready to install it so am looking for guidance on a couple of things.

    1. According to the chart at the bottom of this post, it looks like a 20 breaker would be enough. Is that correct or should I go with a 30 amp?

    2. Is 18/4 shielded wire ok for connection from VFD to spindle. It would be about 25 feet in total.

    3. I copied these settings from another post a while back - I think from a post by Mactec54 but not sure. Are these settings still good?

    D000=0 for Parameter unlock ( 1 ) for Parameter Lock

    PD001=0 (1 For Remote Control)

    PD002=0 ( 1 For 0-10v Terminal Control or Remote Trim Pot Control )
    ( J1 Also Needs to be set for Terminal Control )

    PD003=400

    PD004=400

    PD005=400

    PD007=20

    PD008=220 (Motor Rated Voltage, If you have 120v spindle then set to 120v )

    PD009=15

    PD010=8

    PD011=120 ( 100 Minimum Setting with Quality VFD, 120 is Safe)

    PD13= 08 is for Factory reset, Only use this to set VFD to Factory Default Settings

    PD014 Acceleration=12 ( Adjust to suit)

    PD015 Deceleration=12 (Adjust to suit)

    ( PD15 is ignored IF PD26=1 Then the Spindle will Coast to a Stop)

    PD141=220 ( Motor Rated Voltage ) (120 for VFD Rated for 120v )

    PD142= ( Motor Max Amps)

    PD142=( 220vSet for your motor Amp Rating 2.2Kw Spindle 9 amp )

    PD142=( 220VSet for your motor Amp Rating 1.5Kw Spindle 7 amp )

    PD142=( 220v Set for your motor Amps Rating 800w Spindle 4 amps )

    PD142=( 120v Set for your motor Amp Rating 800w Spindle 7 amp )

    PD143=2 ( Motor Number of Poles)

    PD144=3000 (Max Motor RPM) =3,000= (24,000)

    PD70=0 ( This may need to be set to 1 if Control Voltage is 0-5v )

    PD72=400

    PD73=120 ( 100 Minimum Setting )

    Anything I am missing?
    Thanks for any input.
    Input power wiring to the VFD Drive should be connected to R and T plus Ground, an EMI Power Filter should be mounted close to the the VFD Drive input Power connection TDK Lambada RSEN-2030L

    30A supply is the norm for a machine that is using a 2.2Kw with 240v supply you want this supply to be a 4 wire so you can use 120v /240v if your machine has and 120v circuits

    VFD to Spindle cable should be CF6-15-04 from IGUS this is around 16 gauge this is the best cable to get there are other similar manufactured cables no all are created equal

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Thank you. Just ordered that cable.

    What about the settings?



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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by SamHam View Post
    Thank you. Just ordered that cable.

    What about the settings?
    Shield Grounding is very important so you need a metal plate Aluminum that you mount everything on the cable Shield at the VFD end is clamped to this mounting plate which is the Ground Plain at the spindle end all you can do if you use the plug that it comes with, you roll the shield back and clamp it under the cable restraint I will post some snips if you have not already seen them on shield Grounding

    PD011 can be as low as 50 for your spindle
    PD073 can be as low as 50 for your spindle I would start these at 80 and go down in 10s just see how the spindle reacts

    There can be some other changes but post how it runs at the lower speeds if it looks like it would stall at the lower speeds then put them up to the 100 for safety

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Thanks,
    I think I am clear on the shield grounding, but would like to see you diagrams just to make sure.

    Sam



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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by SamHam View Post
    Thanks,
    I think I am clear on the shield grounding, but would like to see you diagrams just to make sure.

    Sam
    Some shield Grounding examples

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-grounding-shields-6-jpg   Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-ground-plane-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Is the mounting plate necessary? I've seen diagrams where both the shield and ground are connected together at the E terminal? Doesn't that accomplish the same?



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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by SamHam View Post
    Is the mounting plate necessary? I've seen diagrams where both the shield and ground are connected together at the E terminal? Doesn't that accomplish the same?
    No it does not accomplish the same, you can not add a tail ( wire to a shield ), it does not become very affective by doing this, any people showing this is bad information

    You should have all your electronics mounted on a Metal plate which becomes the Ground Plane, you have a Bus or stud mounted on the Ground Plane the mains power supply Ground attaches to the Ground Plane to a Bus or a Stud then all your other Ground wires attach to this same point ( Star Ground Point )

    Some equipment have built in Shield Clamps, a Shield to be affective must be Terminated by direct Clamping to a Ground plane

    There is very little point in using a Shielded cable unless it is correctly terminated

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-shield-grounding-png   Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-grounding-bus-cabinet-png   Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-gounding-post-case-star-point-png   Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-grounding-bus-1-png  

    Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-shield-grounding-vfd-drive-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Ok, guess I need to rethink my layout.
    Thanks for the info.
    Hopefully I'll receive the unit in the next couple of weeks.

    Sam



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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by SamHam View Post
    Ok, guess I need to rethink my layout.
    Thanks for the info.
    Hopefully I'll receive the unit in the next couple of weeks.

    Sam
    Heads up you also need to use ( 1 ) power source for the whole machine I have a feeling you would of been using ( 2 ) supplies to your machine

    240v supply 4 wire is needed then you can have 120v /240v for your machine and VFD Drive from the ( 1 ) source, then you won't create a Ground loop

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    You are right - I was going to use a separate 110v circuit. I will change that now as I'm going to start the wiring this weekend.

    A couple of things to clarify if I may:

    In the US here our 220v consists or 2 110v legs, a neutral and a ground. I know that the two 110v legs (Black and Red usually) go to R and S or T. I believe that the Ground and not the Neutral goes to the Earth terminal. So the Neutral (White ) wire is not used at all. Is this correct?

    Do I run a wire from the ground on ALL electronics to the plate such as control board, Breakout board, 42v power supply, 5/12v power supply, Or just from the power supplies?



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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by SamHam View Post
    You are right - I was going to use a separate 110v circuit. I will change that now as I'm going to start the wiring this weekend.

    A couple of things to clarify if I may:

    In the US here our 220v consists or 2 110v legs, a neutral and a ground. I know that the two 110v legs (Black and Red usually) go to R and S or T. I believe that the Ground and not the Neutral goes to the Earth terminal. So the Neutral (White ) wire is not used at all. Is this correct?

    Do I run a wire from the ground on ALL electronics to the plate such as control board, Breakout board, 42v power supply, 5/12v power supply, Or just from the power supplies?
    The Power supply in NA is 120v /240v for single phase supply and has been for the last 54 years

    For your VFD Drive it has to be wire R and T plus Ground, wire color can be any color that is code for NA so 2 Black Hot wires are fine Ground is Green or Green with yellow stripe

    Yes the mains supply to your machine will have a Ground wire that connects to the Bus the Bus connects to your metal Plate ( Ground Plane ) all other electrical parts that have a Ground connection connect to the same Bus ( Star Point Grounding )

    If you have any 120v needs in your cabinet then you need a Neutral wire for that, so your 240v supply will have 2 Hot / Live Wires a Neutral Wire and a Ground Wire supplying your machine

    The Neutral is only used for the 120v supply this can not be connected to the Ground Bus that would be a safety problem if you did that

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Got it.
    Thanks again for your info.
    I'll keep you posted as I move forward

    Sam



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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    I was going to the same thing. I was going to bring 110 and 220 to my control box but now reading this I'm not sure how to do this. My 220 does not have neutral wire just 2 black and the ground. How can I do this if you are saying I should not bring both grounds to cabinet to create ground loop? Can I still bring 110 to the cabinet (so I get neutral) just not use the ground wire? My 220 wire would then be used for all grounding

    Thanks



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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by darko9000 View Post
    I was going to the same thing. I was going to bring 110 and 220 to my control box but now reading this I'm not sure how to do this. My 220 does not have neutral wire just 2 black and the ground. How can I do this if you are saying I should not bring both grounds to cabinet to create ground loop? Can I still bring 110 to the cabinet (so I get neutral) just not use the ground wire? My 220 wire would then be used for all grounding

    Thanks
    Again guys you have 120v /240v in NA not 110v /220v

    No You should run a Neutral wire with your 240v supply this would be the correct way to do it and not hard to do

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    OK, got my VFD/Spindle. Have the VFD wired and Spindle installed but have not connected the spindle yet. I wanted to run it past here first.

    Attached are pics of my wiring and settings.

    I would like to know if you see anything here that could be a problem. I wasn't sure about 41-49 - Those were suggested by the seller. Don't know if they make a difference or not.

    Thanks.

    PS. Oh yeah, the manual that came with it is in English - I was surprised.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-wiring-1-jpg   Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-wiring-2-jpg   Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points-vfd-settings-jpg  


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by SamHam View Post
    OK, got my VFD/Spindle. Have the VFD wired and Spindle installed but have not connected the spindle yet. I wanted to run it past here first.

    Attached are pics of my wiring and settings.

    I would like to know if you see anything here that could be a problem. I wasn't sure about 41-49 - Those were suggested by the seller. Don't know if they make a difference or not.

    Thanks.

    PS. Oh yeah, the manual that came with it is in English - I was surprised.
    They have a good manual with there VFD Drives which is better than most

    All looks good with the wiring the Ground wire from the VFD you need to put a Green heat shrink tube at both ends about an inch or Green tape shrink tubing is easier

    If you are using Modbus control then you have other parameters that need to be set or checked

    PD041 =6 to 8 max 3 is incorrect

    PD047= Default
    PD048= Default
    PD049=Default

    PD083=0

    PD023=0 you don't want to be reversing your spindle as most are not able to run in reverse, if the U V W is correctly wired to the Plug pin 1 2 3 and Ground then it will run the correct direction

    Don't mess with Parameters that are not in my list or you will get into trouble sometimes they become not reversible, don't take any notice of a seller very few know what they are selling as for them giving you Parameters most are using what I have listed or have found some from someone else which in your case are incorrect

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    I'm not using Modbus (I don't think) I'm using the UCCNC HY plugin using the RS485 converter. Doesn't the Modbus work off of the analog inputs?

    Going to start it up today.



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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    If you are using the RS+ & RS- terminals, these are the serial RS485 for Modbus protocol communication.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

    Quote Originally Posted by SamHam View Post
    I'm not using Modbus (I don't think) I'm using the UCCNC HY plugin using the RS485 converter. Doesn't the Modbus work off of the analog inputs?

    Going to start it up today.
    Your RS485 connection, you are using is for serial Modbus control

    PWM to Analog input is for 0-10v for speed control, nothing to do with serial Modbus control

    For what you are using then should be PD023=1 so it will work correct for your RS485 Modbus control

    PD023=1

    PD163=1

    PD164=1

    PD165=3

    Mactec54


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Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points

Finally moving up to VFD and Spindle - Looking or confirmation on some points