Driving a VFD with another VFD?


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    Default Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    I found a VFD in a discarded machine at the scrapyard. I thought it was a 1 to 3 phase inverter but after closer inspection (it was dark!) it turns out it's a 3 to 3 phase VFD. I don't have 3 phase power at home but I DO have...a 1 to 3 phase VFD I use to run the spindle motor on my cnc. I want to test if the 3-3 phase still works. Can I hook up the 1-3 to the 3-3 with the right frequency settings without releasing the blue smoke? I don't intent to put any load on the drive, or at worst my unladen spindle motor at a low rpm.

    3-3: Xtravert X716
    1-3: one of those no-brand Chinese things, 2.2kW

    I've posted the wiring diagram of the Xtravert below

    Driving a VFD with another VFD?-sfdsf-jpg

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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    No. It won't work. Try connecting single phase to the 3 phase VFD, many will work that way. Or you may get a phase loss error, but at least the magic smoke will stay in.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by metiz View Post
    I found a VFD in a discarded machine at the scrapyard. I thought it was a 1 to 3 phase inverter but after closer inspection (it was dark!) it turns out it's a 3 to 3 phase VFD. I don't have 3 phase power at home but I DO have...a 1 to 3 phase VFD I use to run the spindle motor on my cnc. I want to test if the 3-3 phase still works. Can I hook up the 1-3 to the 3-3 with the right frequency settings without releasing the blue smoke? I don't intent to put any load on the drive, or at worst my unladen spindle motor at a low rpm.

    3-3: Xtravert X716
    1-3: one of those no-brand Chinese things, 2.2kW

    I've posted the wiring diagram of the Xtravert below

    Driving a VFD with another VFD?-sfdsf-jpg
    All VFD Drives 3Phase can be run on single Phase 240v up to the Max supply Amperage you have available from your supply, Note you have to have the correct input Power connection from the manufacturers manual

    No you can not run a VFD Drive with another VFD Drive it does not output a 3Ph sine wave the output is only suitable to be used for a 3Phase AC Motor

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Thanks for the replies guys. What would be the "correct" way to wire 1 to three phase? Should I just run the 1 phase to L1 and L2 and split the L2 connection to L3, or do I only connect L1 and L2?



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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by metiz View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys. What would be the "correct" way to wire 1 to three phase? Should I just run the 1 phase to L1 and L2 and split the L2 connection to L3, or do I only connect L1 and L2?
    No never jumper L2 to L3 this will create a short

    L1 and L2 But check with the Manual for the VFD Drive some will tell you if it is L1 and L2 or L1 and L3

    What is the VFD Drive name and spec's you are trying to run

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    It's an Xtravert 716. 3 phase 400v input, with an "actual" input of 200-480V
    here's the manual. http://www.sigi-elect.si/sites/defau...204201196e.pdf



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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by metiz View Post
    It's an Xtravert 716. 3 phase 400v input, with an "actual" input of 200-480V
    here's the manual. http://www.sigi-elect.si/sites/defau...204201196e.pdf
    Just connect L1 and L2 if you get a Phase missing fault make a Jumper from L1 to L3

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Just connect L1 and L2 if you get a Phase missing fault make a Jumper from L1 to L3
    L1 and L3 won't short? Ok, I'll give it a try, thanks.



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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Ok, with L1 and L2 connected, it turns on but I get a F22 fault. According to the manual:

    "Fault22 EXT TRIP
    DetailExternal Trip; External circuit (Terminal T10) has operated.
    Sense level +12Vdc
    Possible cause Operator, PLC, or external circuitry intervention.
    ActionCheck external circuitry."

    So I'm guessing "external circuitry" is the issue here, i.e., missing phase. So next course of action is to bridge L1 and L3?

    *edit* I've tried bridging L1 and L3 but I get the same F22 error

    Last edited by metiz; 02-09-2020 at 11:06 AM.


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Would it be safe to try L1 and L3, not connecting L2?



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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by metiz View Post
    Ok, with L1 and L2 connected, it turns on but I get a F22 fault. According to the manual:

    "Fault22 EXT TRIP
    DetailExternal Trip; External circuit (Terminal T10) has operated.
    Sense level +12Vdc
    Possible cause Operator, PLC, or external circuitry intervention.
    ActionCheck external circuitry."

    So I'm guessing "external circuitry" is the issue here, i.e., missing phase. So next course of action is to bridge L1 and L3?

    *edit* I've tried bridging L1 and L3 but I get the same F22 error
    No you should do a Factory reset this may put all the Parameters back to the original Default a missing Phase will tell you by using a different Fault the drive has been configured for something else and it is no longer connected so it is showing you the fault it could of been a Safety circuit that now is missing

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Good call! Thanks, I'll look into it.



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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    I've managed to reinitialize the unit (same as reset) but the fault persists, even with L1 and L3 bridged again
    *edit* I've found a reset menu in the manual specifically meant to reset errors - maybe that's the ticket. I'll try tomorrow.
    *edit2* nm, doesn't work either

    Last edited by metiz; 02-09-2020 at 06:47 PM.


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by metiz View Post
    I've managed to reinitialize the unit (same as reset) but the fault persists, even with L1 and L3 bridged again
    *edit* I've found a reset menu in the manual specifically meant to reset errors - maybe that's the ticket. I'll try tomorrow.
    *edit2* nm, doesn't work either
    Clearing the Faults will not do a Factory Reset

    No you have to do a factory Reset there will be a Parameter that you have to set to do this Reset, pressing Reset will not change anything

    As I said you don't have a Phase missing Fault so should not have used a bridged ( Jumper ) L1 to L3 you only do this if there is a missing Phase Fault

    The VFD Drive may also have a Problem this may be why it was in the junk yard, cheaper to buy a new one than repair a drive like this in most cases

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by metiz View Post
    I've managed to reinitialize the unit (same as reset) but the fault persists, even with L1 and L3 bridged again
    *edit* I've found a reset menu in the manual specifically meant to reset errors - maybe that's the ticket. I'll try tomorrow.
    *edit2* nm, doesn't work either
    You have to turn T10 off as well this is an external Safety Trip which you don't have connected to anything

    How many Hz is this VFD Drive rated for, don't connect your spindle to try it unless it is setup to suit your spindle motor Hz

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Clearing the Faults will not do a Factory Reset

    No you have to do a factory Reset there will be a Parameter that you have to set to do this Reset, pressing Reset will not change anything

    As I said you don't have a Phase missing Fault so should not have used a bridged ( Jumper ) L1 to L3 you only do this if there is a missing Phase Fault

    The VFD Drive may also have a Problem this may be why it was in the junk yard, cheaper to buy a new one than repair a drive like this in most cases
    I didn't just hit reset. The menu "Y2" allows you to "initialize" the unit, which wipes all settings, resetting it..



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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You have to turn T10 off as well this is an external Safety Trip which you don't have connected to anything

    How many Hz is this VFD Drive rated for, don't connect your spindle to try it unless it is setup to suit your spindle motor Hz
    According to the manual "If an external trip feature is not required, this input must be closed (linked to +24V).Provides a dedicated input to trip the Xtravert and immediately disables the output.Do not exceed 24Vdc on this input" and below that "TERMINAL T11 +24V SUPPLY" So can I just bridge T10 with T11 (with a resistor)?

    The output frequency range is 0-120Hz



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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Success! I bridged 10 and 11 with a 2k resistor and it does not show the error anymore. I currently don't have a load attached to the unit. When I press start, nothing happens. Is a load required for the unit to turn on?



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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    Quote Originally Posted by metiz View Post
    Success! I bridged 10 and 11 with a 2k resistor and it does not show the error anymore. I currently don't have a load attached to the unit. When I press start, nothing happens. Is a load required for the unit to turn on?
    Yes that is one way to do it, is easier to just change the Parameter for that terminal so it is not used

    No load required, if it has a pot you can up and down the pot or arrow keys to change the speed, you won't be able to measure the Output with a regular meter

    But you must set the Hz Parameters for the motor if you attach one

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving a VFD with another VFD?

    There's no pot to set. When I press "run" nothing happens. I suppose I could connect my 2.2kW chinesium motor and see what happens. The motor is rated to 400hz, the unit can supply up to 120hz. Can I be stupid and just hook it up with clean factory settings and see what happens or do I actually have to, you know, read the manual to see what settings I need?



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