what vfd to buy for closed loop control of 7.5hp Yaskawa spindle motor?

[slodat]

I'm looking at the Hitachi PI drive. Looks like it replaced the older 700. They rate it for single phase supply. Specifically considering the P1-00800-LFUF model.

Welcome any thoughts on the drive selection for this motor.

[slodat]

Ordered the drive this morning.

[slodat]

Received the Hitachi SJ-P1 drive for the spindle. This is a very nice drive. And, they are rated for single phase supply to very high HP levels. I bought the P1-00800-LFUF 15kW model rated for 31a output continuous when powered from single phase. Drive comes with bracket for wall or through wall mounting which places the heat sink and fans outside the enclosure. This is how the original drive was mounted when it was new. I had to open up the hole a little.







The spindle motor has an encoder and Hitachi has an encoder interface option for the P1 drive. I think I’m going to give closed loop sensor vector a try and see what that’s like. I’ll also have a chance to run the thermistor wire to the drive when I run the encoder wire and replace the motor main leads with modern VFD cable.

Short video of the spindle and drive doing their thing.

[contilon]

This VFD would do the job and has enough reserve capacity to run your spindle at maximum power. https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Freq.../dp/B07G97DQQ5

These VFDs seem to be pretty good, top of the line Chinese if you will. I was pleasantly surprised when I opened the manual and it was actually readable, a good translation. Note that both of these VFDs are the GT series; sensorless vector control rather than the less expensive HY series with V/F control. These also support braking resistors where the HY series apparently do not.

I have its little brother running my 5HP air compressor on single phase. https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Freq...54&s=hi&sr=1-3

Both of these will run on single phase according to the ad, I know the 10HP unit does because I'm doing it. I don't know if they will support encoder feedback, can't find anything regarding that. Not really needed for a spindle motor, the sensorless vector control will handle the speed regulation just fine.

Hi Jim,

I've been struggling getting my GT to run off of the Pressure switch of the compressor. The VFD runs everything fine through the control panel. Can you share your Program Variables?

Thanks!

[Jim Dawson]

Hi Jim,

I've been struggling getting my GT to run off of the Pressure switch of the compressor. The VFD runs everything fine through the control panel. Can you share your Program Variables?

Thanks!

Look at the P5.10 parameter. 2 wire control mode. I think this is how I have mine wired up. Just a simple On/Off circuit.

[mactec54]

Hi Jim,

I've been struggling getting my GT to run off of the Pressure switch of the compressor. The VFD runs everything fine through the control panel. Can you share your Program Variables?

Thanks!

You need to check the Pressure Switch, that it has no voltage on the side you are switching, if it has any voltage, on the side you are connecting you will damage the VFD Drive

[contilon]

Look at the P5.10 parameter. 2 wire control mode. I think this is how I have mine wired up. Just a simple On/Off circuit.

Thanks, Jim.

It still has the default 0 for two wire show on / off.

I looked closer tonight at the manual. It started that COM should be 24v. I got nothing. The 10v and 24v terminals measured correctly.

[contilon]

You need to check the Pressure Switch, that it has no voltage on the side you are switching, if it has any voltage, on the side you are connecting you will damage the VFD Drive

Right now I'm just touching wires from com to see. Them, I'll try the pressure switch. I'll dbl check, butdon't think there is any voltage just contract. Tags for the replies.

If anyone can confirm that COM is a constant 24v. I would really appreciate it.

[mactec54]

Right now I'm just touching wires from com to see. Them, I'll try the pressure switch. I'll dbl check, butdon't think there is any voltage just contract. Tags for the replies.

If anyone can confirm that COM is a constant 24v. I would really appreciate it.

Don't cause a short or you will damage the Logic inputs, touching wires can damage the drive, Power off, connect wires, Power back on, VFD Drives should be Hard wired into the supply Power, no Plugging and unplugging, must be switched or a Breaker can be used to disconnect the power to the Drive, it can be plugged in if the receptacle has a switched circuit with a switch or Breaker to turn it 0n / 0ff

No, 24v on Com unless the 24v jumper has been changed, the circuit between S1-Com would be 24v

A quick way to test is to jumper S1-Com this should start the VFD Drive if the Parameters are correct P5.10=1

[Al_The_Man]

Not sure what to say here. I have no experience with setting up that VFD in SV mode. Studying the documentation is the best advice I can give, there may be some obscure parameter that needs to be set.

Jim, I have never used a VFD in the V/F mode in anything but fans and pumps, as recommended by the main manuf I use, one of which is Mitsubishi the other WEG.,
It was recommended to me early on by a few manuf to use open-loop torque/vector (OLV) control in production machinery, CNC etc, the tech dept informed me it was used for greater and more dynamic motor control.
They said it was due to independently controlling motor speed and torque, much like DC motors are controlled.
In torque sensorless-vector mode, the controller takes a electronic pic of just where the rotor position is in order to offers sensor-less vector positioning of the rotor.
Vector drives can generate more starting torque, and can provide full torque down to 1 Hz or less, while V/Hz drives are limited to about 5-6 Hz
I have used this method for the past 40+ years for VFD installations with very excellent success.

[mactec54]

Jim, I have never used a VFD in the V/F mode in anything but fans and pumps, as recommended by the main manuf I use, one of which is Mitsubishi the other WEG.,
It was recommended to me early on by a few manuf to use open-loop torque/vector (OLV) control in production machinery, CNC etc, the tech dept informed me it was used for greater and more dynamic motor control.
They said it was due to independently controlling motor speed and torque, much like DC motors are controlled.
In torque sensorless-vector mode, the controller takes a electronic pic of just where the rotor position is in order to offers sensor-less vector positioning of the rotor.
Vector drives can generate more starting torque, and can provide full torque down to 1 Hz or less, while V/Hz drives are limited to about 5-6 Hz
I have used this method for the past 40+ years for VFD installations with very excellent success.

It will depend on what the motor is rated for, as to how show it can run.

Using sensor-less vector mode is always the best option for any AC 3 Phase motor, if the VFD Drive being used can support a true sensor-less vector configuration or closed loop Vector control which is even better, there are a lot of VFD Drives that say they are a Vector Drive but only support 50Hz / 60Hz

[Al_The_Man]

Well I only use ones that support true sensor-less vector control, I have when needed added an encoder for sensor feedback control version.
The vast majority of motors that were VFD applied, were standard 50hz/60hz motors.
I have also found that even with auto-tuning, some tweaking is needed afterwards.

[mactec54]

Well I only use ones that support true sensor-less vector control, I have when needed added an encoder for sensor feedback control version.
The vast majority of motors that were VFD applied, were standard 50hz/60hz motors.
I have also found that even with auto-tuning, some tweaking is needed afterwards.

Auto Tuning only helps fill in some of the Parameters like slip etc.

Most quality spindle motors are full closed loop vector control motors

A regular AC 3Phase motors most are rated at a 10:1 turndown ratio, so can't run at that low frequency using vector or V/F control, even a regular Vector duty motor are only rated at 20:1 turndown ratio, so it takes a very good motor when you see 1000:1 as sometimes 2000:1 Turndown ratio this you will see in the higher frequency high speed spindle motors