Need Help! Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?


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    Default Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Hi,

    I purchased a 2.2kW 4 pole watercooled chinese spindle + Filing inverter, cutting a hardwood with a 1/2 2 flute @ 5-7mm doc 7mm stepover 2500mm/min 10k rpm the spindle would get dangerously slow to the point that it would stall if I didn't stop it.

    As it turns out the inverter was advertised as sensorless vector capable but that is only up to 60Hz..

    Cutting at 3mm doc with above settings the inverter pulls about 1.5A. Off the top of my head Gwizard calc estimated the required power to be approx 250w which I assumed it should be more than capable of at that rpm?

    My question is would a good quality (branded) vfd capable of open loop solve my problems?

    The spindle stayed quite cool to touch after 5 hours of cutting maybe 30 degrees on the outside jacket.

    Any help would be great thanks

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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    What's the current draw when it's stalling?

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Not sure what the current is when it stalls but the most I've seen it get to is 1.8A @10k rpm usually about 1.1A. I've gone through all the settings and it's set to 10A and can't seem to find any other settings that could contribute..



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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritzy321 View Post
    Not sure what the current is when it stalls but the most I've seen it get to is 1.8A @10k rpm usually about 1.1A. I've gone through all the settings and it's set to 10A and can't seem to find any other settings that could contribute..
    You have your Parameters set incorrect so don't run your spindle with these setting or you will smoke your spindle

    If you only have a 60Hz VFD which I doubt that you have, this will smoke your Spindle if it can only be set to 60Hz

    If you are able to get 10,000 RPM you are not using a 60Hz only VFD Drive

    Post what your VFD Drive spec's are model number photo

    Mactec54


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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You have your Parameters set incorrect so don't run your spindle with these setting or you will smoke your spindle

    If you only have a 60Hz VFD which I doubt that you have, this will smoke your Spindle if it can only be set to 60Hz

    If you are able to get 10,000 RPM you are not using a 60Hz only VFD Drive

    Post what your VFD Drive spec's are model number photo
    Hi,

    The inverter is a DZB312B002.2L2DK and I managed to get it running properly. In the manual there is an inverter model type selection and this inverter needs to be set to a "2" which isn't listed as an option (see attached).

    Also had a reserved function which needed to be set to 1235..

    These manuals are a little bit cryptic

    Spindle cuts really nicely now.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?-screenshot_20190828-102548_drive-jpg  


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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritzy321 View Post
    Hi,

    The inverter is a DZB312B002.2L2DK and I managed to get it running properly. In the manual there is an inverter model type selection and this inverter needs to be set to a "2" which isn't listed as an option (see attached).

    Also had a reserved function which needed to be set to 1235..

    These manuals are a little bit cryptic

    Spindle cuts really nicely now.
    What reserved function where you able to add a number to

    Do you have a PDF of your manual

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    What's the current draw when it's stalling?
    Approximately 2 Amps at 10k rpm. does that seem right?

    I still feel it is somewhat under powered as kept increasing the width of cut until it would start to stall at 240w (assuming gwizard is correct ofc)

    see attached picture.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?-gwiz-jpg  


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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    What reserved function where you able to add a number to

    Do you have a PDF of your manual
    The Fuling manual they sent me is the same as the DZB200/300 series one



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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritzy321 View Post
    Approximately 2 Amps at 10k rpm. does that seem right?

    I still feel it is somewhat under powered as kept increasing the width of cut until it would start to stall at 240w (assuming gwizard is correct ofc)

    see attached picture.
    You say it is 4 Pole what are the motor spec's

    Max RPM=
    Max Amps=
    Max HZ=

    Need a list of what VFD Parameters you have set

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    How do you know your running 10,000 RPM? Mactec54 knows VFD settings so listen to what he is asking.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. Kimber 1911 45ACP


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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Max RPM = 24000
    Max Amps = 8
    Max Hertz = 800

    Everything is reset to default (as per the sellers instructions)
    And then set

    F3.01=1235 - reserved function

    F0.04=800 - Max Freq

    F0.05=800 - Upper limit

    F1.02=800 - Motor rated freq

    F1.03=24000 - Motor rated speed

    F1.04=220 - Motor rated voltage

    F0.03=1 - VI freq command selection

    F0.01=0 - Terminal

    Inverter seems to default motor rated current to 8 Amp.

    I don't have a way of measuring the speed, only what the inverter tells me 24k/800Hz..



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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritzy321 View Post
    Max RPM = 24000
    Max Amps = 8
    Max Hertz = 800

    Everything is reset to default (as per the sellers instructions)
    And then set

    F3.01=1235 - reserved function

    F0.04=800 - Max Freq

    F0.05=800 - Upper limit

    F1.02=800 - Motor rated freq

    F1.03=24000 - Motor rated speed

    F1.04=220 - Motor rated voltage

    F0.03=1 - VI freq command selection

    F0.01=0 - Terminal

    Inverter seems to default motor rated current to 8 Amp.

    I don't have a way of measuring the speed, only what the inverter tells me 24k/800Hz..
    The seller is just that and would not really know how to setup your VFD Drive or what any of the numbers mean

    I don't know why you would of messed with this Parameter F3.01=1235 - reserved function

    What mode are you using Parameter F0.00= 0 Or 1 ????

    F0.06=100

    F0.07=800

    Once you have checked your motor Parameters are correct you can then Auto Tune to your motor see snip F1.11=1

    F1.01=2.2

    F1.02=800

    F1.03=24000

    F1.04=220

    F1.05=8 ( Or Your Motor Rated Amps )

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?-auto-tune-png  
    Mactec54


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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    The seller is just that and would not really know how to setup your VFD Drive or what any of the numbers mean

    I don't know why you would of messed with this Parameter F3.01=1235 - reserved function

    What mode are you using Parameter F0.00= 0 Or 1 ????

    F0.06=100

    F0.07=800

    Once you have checked your motor Parameters are correct you can then Auto Tune to your motor see snip F1.11=1

    F1.01=2.2

    F1.02=800

    F1.03=24000

    F1.04=220

    F1.05=8 ( Or Your Motor Rated Amps )
    F0.00 is 1

    Also set F0.06 to 100 and F0.07 to 800

    The seller told me that this inverter does not support auto tune as I can't change it from 0 and they also said that F0.00 = 0 is only for 50-60Hz motors even though it was advertised as sensorless vector capable..



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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritzy321 View Post
    F0.00 is 1

    Also set F0.06 to 100 and F0.07 to 800

    The seller told me that this inverter does not support auto tune as I can't change it from 0 and they also said that F0.00 = 0 is only for 50-60Hz motors even though it was advertised as sensorless vector capable..
    Sensorless vector without auto tune would be like buying a new car without wheels, they are telling you BS 50-60Hz is only for V/F I have heard a lot of Bs from sellers, this kind of tops the list

    The series 300 has Auto tune I have the different manuals Series 100 200 and 300

    You may have been sold a copy if it is the 300 series and does not have Auto Tune

    So set F0.00=0 and test run it to see if you have any improvement

    Mactec54


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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Sensorless vector without auto tune would be like buying a new car without wheels, they are telling you BS 50-60Hz is only for V/F I have heard a lot of Bs from sellers, this kind of tops the list

    The series 300 has Auto tune I have the different manuals Series 100 200 and 300

    You may have been sold a copy if it is the 300 series and does not have Auto Tune

    So set F0.00=0 and test run it to see if you have any improvement
    It only seems to spin very slowly won't change speed no matter what the frequency is.

    Also noticed it has DZB 215DK sticker on the inside, would that indicate a 200 series and maybe not a 300?

    Last edited by Ritzy321; 09-04-2019 at 04:23 AM.


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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritzy321 View Post
    It only seems to spin very slowly won't change speed no matter what the frequency is.

    Also noticed it has DZB 215DK sticker on the inside, would that indicate a 200 series and maybe not a 300?
    That would make sense as it seems to be a 200 series drive which does not have Auto Tune, I would say you have a VFD Drive that is not suitable for the spindle you have, these drives are normally quite good

    If you need / buy a sensorless vector control than make sure the VFD has Auto Tune

    Do you have a web link from where you brought it from

    Mactec54


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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    That would make sense as it seems to be a 200 series drive which does not have Auto Tune, I would say you have a VFD Drive that is not suitable for the spindle you have, these drives are normally quite good

    If you need / buy a sensorless vector control than make sure the VFD has Auto Tune

    Do you have a web link from where you brought it from
    https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32985780664.html

    Thanks for your help, appreciate it.



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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritzy321 View Post
    https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32985780664.html

    Thanks for your help, appreciate it.
    That is a good spindle brand name not used by many but I have used there spindles

    By there specs they have a minimum working speed of 12,000 so running it at 10,000 may have been some of your problem even though it can run at 10,000 it would not have very much torque at that speed by what there spec's are,I would say even though it is a 4 Pole it should have a lower speed

    I have one of there 2.2Kw 2 pole and it is good down to 3,000 up to 24,000

    It also has a 10A rating not 8A that you have set, it would have to be set at 10A in the VFD Drive, then it comes to the VFD Drive which may not suit your spindle when using single phase power as the VFD max output is 10A this should be at least 12A minimum, so the VFD Drive is borderline at best

    What is your Amperage for the 240v supply power to the VFD Drive

    Mactec54


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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    That is a good spindle brand name not used by many but I have used there spindles

    By there specs they have a minimum working speed of 12,000 so running it at 10,000 may have been some of your problem even though it can run at 10,000 it would not have very much torque at that speed by what there spec's are,I would say even though it is a 4 Pole it should have a lower speed

    I have one of there 2.2Kw 2 pole and it is good down to 3,000 up to 24,000

    It also has a 10A rating not 8A that you have set, it would have to be set at 10A in the VFD Drive, then it comes to the VFD Drive which may not suit your spindle when using single phase power as the VFD max output is 10A this should be at least 12A minimum, so the VFD Drive is borderline at best

    What is your Amperage for the 240v supply power to the VFD Drive
    I also have tried 12k and above rpm with not much difference, I have a 15A plug but didn't think running it at 8A would make a huge difference. I think I will just buy a new vfd anyway any brands you could recommend?



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    Default Re: Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritzy321 View Post
    I also have tried 12k and above rpm with not much difference, I have a 15A plug but didn't think running it at 8A would make a huge difference. I think I will just buy a new vfd anyway any brands you could recommend?
    Your VFD required needs to be larger than your spindle so 3Kw to 4Kw and rated for 800Hz or more

    I think you have a power supply problem to start with 15A supply is not going to run a 2.2Kw spindle

    You need a minimum 240v supply at 25A most have use 30A Circuit for the 2.2Kw spindle

    Can you post some photos of the wiring, you may not have a VFD Drive Problem

    Mactec54


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Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?

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Chinese Spindle Stalling.. better vfd?