Vfd/spindle speed help.

[ericks]

To answer your question...yes you should hear a big diff in the motor when it is at 7200 rpm and then at 24000 rpm....sorry i have just been called to a breakdown

If you not sure about anything or you don't understand my explanation we could chat over the phone

[mactec54]

I realise this but I am saying when I change the settings I am getting no audible difference between said rpm's my problem is that I believe I should be hearing a difference in sound of the motor at different rpm's, I can clearly hear a difference in sound at different speeds between min and max of the speed dial, what I am not hearing is any difference in sound of the motor whether it is at max 13000rpm or 24000rpm, at min 3900rpm and max 13000rpm.

For now forget the numbers because its not making any difference. The sound at min speed and max speed are exactly the same regardless of what the vfd is showing me.

I posted the Parameters for you do you have them set, here is another one to set

Set P100=400

[BLarks]

To answer your question...yes you should hear a big diff in the motor when it is at 7200 rpm and then at 24000 rpm....sorry i have just been called to a breakdown

If you not sure about anything or you don't understand my explanation we could chat over the phone

Yes I hear this. Maybe Im not explaining myself well enough. Lets focus on one thing, max rpm and sound of motor at max rpm.
Ok vfd reads 24000rpm, motor makes a certain sound.
Change settings -
Now vfd reads 13000rpm at max speed, motor sounds exactly the same as it was at 24000rpm.
Now my problem is I am not hearing any difference in motor sound between these two rpm's.
13000rpm sound = 24000rpm sound, this should not be.

Ok thanks for the help for now. I am hoping when tacho arrives it will give me a roundabout figure of what spindle is actually spinning at.
Needless to say the change in settings doesn't to me to be having any effect on speed of spindle, certainly none I can hear which I don't think is right.

[ericks]

Yes I hear this. Maybe Im not explaining myself well enough. Lets focus on one thing, max rpm and sound of motor at max rpm.
Ok vfd reads 24000rpm, motor makes a certain sound.
Change settings -
Now vfd reads 13000rpm at max speed, motor sounds exactly the same as it was at 24000rpm.
Now my problem is I am not hearing any difference in motor sound between these two rpm's.
13000rpm sound = 24000rpm sound, this should not be.

Ok thanks for the help for now. I am hoping when tacho arrives it will give me a roundabout figure of what spindle is actually spinning at.
Needless to say the change in settings doesn't to me to be having any effect on speed of spindle, certainly none I can hear which I don't think is right.

At max speed / when pot is fully turned up the drive should only display a speed of 24000 rpm and the motor should be quite audible.
At minimum speed/ pot turned fully down the displayed speed should only be 7200 rpm and you should hear this diff clearly and see she speed reduction in the shaft

[BLarks]

I posted the Parameters for you do you have them set, here is another one to set

Set P100=400

Thanks mactec, yes I followed your settings from another post to start off with and have now amended the ones you posted here, but I seem to have no difference in what I hearing.

[BLarks]

At max speed / when pot is fully turned up the drive should only display a speed of 24000 rpm and the motor should be quite audible.
At minimum speed/ pot turned fully down the displayed speed should only be 7200 rpm and you should hear this diff clearly and see she speed reduction in the shaft

Again and I'm not sure how else I can explain it, I am hearing the difference and seeing speed difference. But please read what I am saying

There is no difference in sound if I have everything set so it says 13000rpm or I have everything set so it reads 24000rpm. The sound is the same regardless of the vfd reading 13000rpm or 24000rpm,

[ericks]

Yes i am not understanding....when you say when you set, are you referring to set the speed pot or something else??

[mactec54]

Thanks mactec, yes I followed your settings from another post to start off with and have now amended the ones you posted here, but I seem to have no difference in what I hearing.

Did you just set this Parameter this was not in my list

P100=400
P101=0

[BLarks]

Yes mactec, changed p100, but didn't seem to make a difference.
ericks
I am hearing the correct difference in sound when I turn the pot to change speed, motor sounds slow, turn the pot to max motor spins fast and sounds much louder. But if I change the settings the sounds of the motor are the same, it's like there has been no change in settings at all even though I check and double check each time I change a setting to confirm
I seem to be getting no change in motor sound at min or max rpm regardless of the changes I am making.

[ericks]

When you change P212 and let say the drive shows 3000rpm and the motor runs...now you set P212 and the drive shows 24000 rpm....there will be NO difference in motor actual speed...you just giving the drive a different value to display the speed, you not changing the speed and neither is the drive. All that counts is you got P212 to indicate 7200 rpm at min pot setting and 24000 rpm at max pot setting. not sure if you understand this. As long as your motor speed changes from min pot setting to max pot setting and P002 shows 120 at min pot setting and 400 at max pot setting then all is well. However between min and max pot setting you must hear the motor double its speed

[ericks]

Yes mactec, changed p100, but didn't seem to make a difference.
ericks
I am hearing the correct difference in sound when I turn the pot to change speed, motor sounds slow, turn the pot to max motor spins fast and sounds much louder. But if I change the settings the sounds of the motor are the same, it's like there has been no change in settings at all even though I check and double check each time I change a setting to confirm
I seem to be getting no change in motor sound at min or max rpm regardless of the changes I am making.

What changes are you referring to? What exactly are you changing and not getting a actual speed change?

[BLarks]

Ok so are saying that the motor is spinning at it's maximum rpm regardless of what the vfd says?

Second - if first is yes then all I'm doing with the settings in the vfd is getting it to read the correct rpm?
For example if I turn pot half then actual motor should be running at half speed, 12000rpm, but vfd says 8000rpm- wrong.
So I change settings so now turn pot halfway and vfd says 12000rpm - correct.
So essentially spindle is actually spinning at correct speeds but vfd may show correct or incorrect depending on settings?

[ericks]

It will depend on the drive....when you limit the minimum speed/hertz then sometimes it makes the speed range not linear. We usually correct this with parameters however i work with high end drives where you have hundreds of parameters. I must look at the parameters for your drive to see if we can get it more accurate....Problem is i am at work atm and i am in and out of the workshop doing breakdowns

[BLarks]

Ok I think my dunce cap is slowly coming off and I'm getting what your saying, forgive my stupidity, but it never occurred to me that the motor is doing what it should but the vfd may not be telling me the correct thing, and changing the settings is only for giving the correct reading, not actually changing rpm of the motor. Basically calibrating the vfd to give the correct reading of what motor is doing. No thanks for your help ericks you better focus on your work and I better get some sleep so I can focus on my work later and revisit this later, but I think it's finally clicked what's going on, yeah yeah sorry it takes me a while lol.

[ericks]

It could even be that the speed calculation is not correct....i go back to one of my first posts, look at the output Hz...if you turn your pot half way and you sure its referencing 5v then see if you see P001 = 200 Hz now if you check P004 it should indicate 12000 Rpm

[ericks]

No problem.....

[mactec54]

Ok I think my dunce cap is slowly coming off and I'm getting what your saying, forgive my stupidity, but it never occurred to me that the motor is doing what it should but the vfd may not be telling me the correct thing, and changing the settings is only for giving the correct reading, not actually changing rpm of the motor. Basically calibrating the vfd to give the correct reading of what motor is doing. No thanks for your help ericks you better focus on your work and I better get some sleep so I can focus on my work later and revisit this later, but I think it's finally clicked what's going on, yeah yeah sorry it takes me a while lol.

No you are getting confused, the Parameters that are set, for the motor spec's are what makes everything work , what you see in the display is no indication that the motor is doing what it should be

Did you do both of these Parameters as they work together you need to check as the pot won't control correct unless both of these are set I added another Parameter P801 also


P100=400
P101=0

P801=0

[BLarks]

No you are getting confused, the Parameters that are set, for the motor spec's are what makes everything work , what you see in the display is no indication that the motor is doing what it should be

Did you do both of these Parameters as they work together you need to check as the pot won't control correct unless both of these are set I added another Parameter P801 also


P100=400
P101=0

P801=0

Yep I did p100 but not yet p101, at work at the moment

Will change p101 and p801 tomorrow.
No I get that the rpm readout may not be what the motor is doing, p212 was confusing me as i was not getting any change of max motor speed with changes to this setting. What i meant was the motor may actually be hitting max rpm but i thought that the readout was an indication of that but realize now that is not the case unless settings are correct. So if I understand it is the the frequency, ie 120hz to 400hz is the speed range?

[mactec54]

Yep I did p100 but not yet p101, at work at the moment

Will change p101 and p801 tomorrow.
No I get that the rpm readout may not be what the motor is doing, p212 was confusing me as i was not getting any change of max motor speed with changes to this setting. What i meant was the motor may actually be hitting max rpm but i thought that the readout was an indication of that but realize now that is not the case unless settings are correct. So if I understand it is the the frequency, ie 120hz to 400hz is the speed range?

Only if all other Parameters are set as well 120Hz and 400Hz are only part of what is needed and you can use 100Hz for the minimum speed if you have a water cooled spindle 120Hz is safe though as you will have a little more torque at 120Hz

P212 you want to set that to the max you can 24,000 if you can, your VFD is not the same as what the other manufacture HY that uses 3000 to get there max speed

I have some other Parameter's to look at as well but set these first especially P100=400 and P101=0

[ericks]

The only way to know what the exact speed of the motor is related to what the drive output Hz is is to measure it with a tacho....i used my tacho on my Hertz spindle motor. It's speeds from standstill all the way to 18000 Rpm was very close to the applied Hz from the drive. What i mean is that when the drive indicated 150Hz i expected 9000 Rpm, and it was just about 9000 Rpm no load. At 300 Hz it ran at the expected 18000 Rpm and many other points/values. I am not sure how close the spindle motor you using will be to its indicated speed.

Coming back to parameter P212 in your case...believe me its not a critical parameter in your case, unless you possibly add a speed feedback from your spindle motor. There is no way how the ac drive would know at what speed your motor is turning unless it receives a speed pulse. I am not saying you should not set it.....but according to your manual the maximum value you can set in P212 is 6000....and your motor speed is 24000. So even if you want you can't input the correct value. The danfoss manual i just pulled out of my filing cabinet allows up to 60 000 Rpm motor speed to be inputted. So when i load all your motor settings in this drive then you should get the correct motor rpm displayed on the drive.....but again its only a calculated value cause the drive does not know the real speed of the motor