VFD 110V-110V parameters setting

[XYZGnomon]

What jumpers where there to be changed ???

Actually, none. After rereading the manual I'm not actually sure what I did wrong. I literally just unplugged it from the wall and plugged it into the step-up transformer with the same plug. POOF! SMOKE!

[Jim Dawson]

Actually, none. After rereading the manual I'm not actually sure what I did wrong. I literally just unplugged it from the wall and plugged it into the step-up transformer with the same plug. POOF! SMOKE!

Looking at the manual, for 115V input, hot goes to L1, and Neutral goes to N, L2 is not connected. For 230V input, Hot 1 goes to L1, and Hot 2 goes to L2, N is not connected.

So putting 230V across L1 and N would have applied 230V across terminals that were expecting 115V.

[XYZGnomon]

Looking at the manual, for 115V input, hot goes to L1, and Neutral goes to N, L2 is not connected. For 230V input, Hot 1 goes to L1, and Hot 2 goes to L2, N is not connected.

So putting 230V across L1 and N would have applied 230V across terminals that were expecting 115V.

This is exactly what I said before! I would have needed to wire it like they do in Europe, but I never found the instructions for that.

Anyway, I just broke down and ordered the WEG CFW300 https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...300a04p2s1nb20 and I'll have it Friday. It's probably what I should have gotten from the beginning.

[StrawberryBoi]

This is exactly what I said before! I would have needed to wire it like they do in Europe, but I never found the instructions for that.

Anyway, I just broke down and ordered the WEG CFW300 https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...300a04p2s1nb20 and I'll have it Friday. It's probably what I should have gotten from the beginning.

It's on page 22, top of the page. Contrary to popular belief, one cannot operate machinery properly without reading the manual.

L1 and N are the standard nomenclature in the USA too, this isn't a European vs USA thing...

- - - Updated - - -

With no intent to be rude, please very carefully read the manual for your WEG so as not to fry more of your wallet

[XYZGnomon]

I did. Kindly point to where it says how to connect 230V to L1.

[mactec54]

Looking at the manual, for 115V input, hot goes to L1, and Neutral goes to N, L2 is not connected. For 230V input, Hot 1 goes to L1, and Hot 2 goes to L2, N is not connected.

So putting 230V across L1 and N would have applied 230V across terminals that were expecting 115V.

Only if the model he has was for 120v supply

[Jim Dawson]

I did. Kindly point to where it says how to connect 230V to L1.

Actually it's on the top of page 23

[Jim Dawson]

Only if the model he has was for 120v supply

He does. He has the ''D'' model, 120/208-230 input

[mactec54]

I did. Kindly point to where it says how to connect 230V to L1.

Yes it seems by the snip that the model VFD Drive has a max input of 110v/120v input supply ,need more information on what drive you have

So if you have the model D then 240V supply would of been fine

The problem could of been from plugging it in with a plug

One thing not to do is using a Plug to connect and disconnect a VFD Drive, you must use a switch or even a breaker to turn the power On / Off, then you can unplug it

[XYZGnomon]

Actually it's on the top of page 23

It's not.

There are no instructions for L1/230V + N + G.

KBDF-27D

It doesn't help that the labels were never on the thing to begin with, but since I read the instructions I knew where to connect the leads... for 115V.

It's a moot point anyway, since it's in pieces in a box now.

[mactec54]

It's on page 22, top of the page. Contrary to popular belief, one cannot operate machinery properly without reading the manual.

With the right guidance someone that is electrically challenged, can get help with the right posting instead of confusing posts

L1 and N are the standard nomenclature in the USA too, this isn't a European vs USA thing...

Except for NA single phase supply has the 120v L1 / N supply and 240v L1 / L2 that is different which most don't understand

That was not what this was about, his use of the Transformer was to get 240v from the 120v supply which many do use these Transformers when they only have a 120v supply to work with

[mactec54]

It's not.

There are no instructions for L1/230V + N + G.

KBDF-27D

It doesn't help that the labels were never on the thing to begin with, but since I read the instructions I knew where to connect the leads... for 115V.

It's a moot point anyway, since it's in pieces in a box now.

Ok so don't use the Transformer at all for the new drive you are getting , and only plug it in with a switched outlet using the switch to turn it On / Off

[Jim Dawson]

It's not.

There are no instructions for L1/230V + N + G.

KBDF-27D

It doesn't help that the labels were never on the thing to begin with, but since I read the instructions I knew where to connect the leads... for 115V.

It's a moot point anyway, since it's in pieces in a box now.

You are correct it is moot at this point.

But the top diagram clearly shows where to connect the 230 volt connections; L1 and L2 if we were in Europe, L2 would be the Neutral, but in North America it is just L2. Many times you will see a label on a terminal reading L2-N. Our neutral would not be used in a 230V connection.

A neutral is defined as a ''grounded current carrying conductor'', where a ground is defined as a ''grounded non-current carrying conductor'', electrically they are identical. In North America the neutral and ground are connected to the center tap on the pole transformer. In Europe, the neutral and ground are connected to the center of the Y, as shown in the diagram I posted a few posts above. When using a step up isolation transformer, as you have, one leg of the 230V could be grounded and thus would become the neutral. In North America we would not normally ground one side of the transformer wires.

[XYZGnomon]

You are correct it is moot at this point.

But the top diagram clearly shows where to connect the 230 volt connections; L1 and L2 if we were in Europe, L2 would be the Neutral, but in North America it is just L2. Many times you will see a label on a terminal reading L2-N. Our neutral would not be used in a 230V connection.

A neutral is defined as a ''grounded current carrying conductor'', where a ground is defined as a ''grounded non-current carrying conductor'', electrically they are identical. In North America the neutral and ground are connected to the center tap on the pole transformer. In Europe, the neutral and ground are connected to the center of the Y, as shown in the diagram I posted a few posts above. When using a step up isolation transformer, as you have, one leg of the 230V could be grounded and thus would become the neutral. In North America we would not normally ground one side of the transformer wires.

I'm learning something.

I actually used to know a lot of this stuff, but it's been so long since I've had to manage any of it that I've just forgotten. If you can remember, I gutted and rewired that 3HP horizontal mill with a KBAC-29 (1P) VFD. I stuck that mill, a surface plate, workbenches, a huge drafting table and more into 99 square feet at ADX.

I also lived in Europe for several years so I have no excuses.

[StrawberryBoi]

I guess I misunderstood why you used the transformer. Since power is power and you had a unit that could take 115v on the input, the step up transformer was just a heater for your shop and otherwise added nothing..?

As for connecting all three wires L1/N/L2, you don't. The three wire connection schema is for three phase. For single phase, as per the manual, you would only connect the two wire for the voltage. The ground would be the third wire and connected to the ground.

I didn't know that the ground and neutral were shared in the EU... really? That seems like... I mean, live voltage on ground is a giant red flag usually, how does that work? I'll investigate that separately, no need to respond to my musings.

[XYZGnomon]

I guess I misunderstood why you used the transformer. Since power is power and you had a unit that could take 115v on the input, the step up transformer was just a heater for your shop and otherwise added nothing..?

As for connecting all three wires L1/N/L2, you don't. The three wire connection schema is for three phase. For single phase, as per the manual, you would only connect the two wire for the voltage. The ground would be the third wire and connected to the ground.

I didn't know that the ground and neutral were shared in the EU... really? That seems like... I mean, live voltage on ground is a giant red flag usually, how does that work? I'll investigate that separately, no need to respond to my musings.

Not relevant. I already had a 3kw transformer designed for using overseas appliances in the US, and I wanted to see if the VFD performed any differently when plugged in through it.

Unfortunately, you are assuming things about electricity, about me and about what I know or don't know. You're also looking past things I have definitely already said, and referring to things you think I said but didn't.

This has become a very weird thread. It's pretty obvious that mactec54 basically lives on the internet and doesn't know half of what he thinks he knows and can't find any punctuation on his keyboard. I trust Jim. You're a wild card, StrawberryBoi, and I'm glad you're here.

[mactec54]

Not relevant. I already had a 3kw transformer designed for using overseas appliances in the US, and I wanted to see if the VFD performed any differently when plugged in through it.

Unfortunately, you are assuming things about electricity, about me and about what I know or don't know. You're also looking past things I have definitely already said, and referring to things you think I said but didn't.

This has become a very weird thread. It's pretty obvious that mactec54 basically lives on the internet and doesn't know half of what he thinks he knows and can't find any punctuation on his keyboard. I trust Jim. You're a wild card, StrawberryBoi, and I'm glad you're here.

I usually spend about 30min a day on the internet, I have better things to do than waste my time on guys like you

I have a degree in Electrical engineering plus much more, have been repairing and building VFDs for 20 years, have seen pretty much everything that can happen to VFD Drive, that have been smoked by guys like you,

We will see how you go with your new VFD Drive the same thing can / will happen if you don't get it right, especially the programing of the VFD Drive for your spindle, you can expect to have the same problem

[XYZGnomon]

I usually spend about 30min a day on the internet, I have better things to do than waste my time on guys like you

I have a degree in Electrical engineering plus much more, have been repairing and building VFDs for 20 years, have seen pretty much everything that can happen to VFD Drive, that have been smoked by guys like you,

We will see how you go with your new VFD Drive the same thing can / will happen if you don't get it right, especially the programing of the VFD Drive for your spindle, you can expect to have the same problem

I came on here because I have a bunch of time to kill before my machine shows up and I wanted to make educated decisions about the control and spindle drive. Jim has answered my questions, with a little helpful side commentary by StrawberryBoi. I have mostly just ignored you.

Your username is all over a lot of boards that I have run into while doing some research, so pardon me if I doubt your half-hour claim. Again, I don't think you realize how little you are actually contributing in relation to how prolific a contributor you are.

Please don't take this personally. I don't know you at all, so consider this constructive criticism from a stranger. Or ignore me! Also fine!

[StrawberryBoi]

While I take everything from mac with a heaping of salt , I don't discount that he has a valuable perspective. It may be one which appears to be skewed by experience, but since I have experience only with a high spec world and he's been dealing with the full gambit, I wouldn't discount it at all.

Do I think he's rude and fails to actually back up his claims with anything beyond hand waiving? Sure. That doesn't mean he hasn't seen what he's seen. I encounter other engineers (myself being an ME/EE mostly from Automotive startups and servo motors) all the time who have tremendously valuable experience and totally wrong interpretations about root cause. Correlation and causality are not at all the same, but it's so easy to conflate. I've spent almost half of my career hunting down causality rather than correlation and dang is it a tough thing to do.

So just to summarize, don't necessarily take everything from mac as gospel, but don't dare discount the experience. Whether or not he's attributing causality correctly or not, I have yet to form an opinion in any particular case. I do believe he's not lying about correlation.

That means: Underrated drives fail when paired with higher motor ratings is likely true. The WHY is not yet determined imho. I believe it's due to drive design shortcuts in low quality drives and/or user error (VERY LIKELY AT LEAST SOME USER ERROR ALWAYS). I don't know what the cause is. I have in my mind and have posted my suspicions, but each drive failure case would be it's own investigation.

Generally best practice is to use a drive that's a known pairing with a given motor, ideally a warranty backed pairing. VFDs and Servo Drives run a gambit from mostly total garbage to a small and wildly varied set of robust and simple to robust and complex options. There are good and bad from every country. I've seen PLENTY of total trash from expensive US and EU suppliers. Likewise lots of true gold from totally Chinese suppliers. Sometimes the gold looks like trash and the trash looks like gold.

If mac or someone has direct experience with a particular drive/brand, then that's useful. Always. General hand waiving not always useful.

EDIT: Just to add to my point though, ratings in a drive are based on output to a highly variable load (motor, not model-specific). This output is a controlled and defined limit based on thermal and control variables that are substantially arbitrary on behalf of the manufacturer. Generally these may be 'it didn't explode in 2s' to 'it ran with a specific dB of noise at a touch safe temperature in specific conditions until steady state was achieved for at least 1h' and so forth. The same is the case for motors. Basically nobody is working on the same system for determining a rating, this is a big part of why drive and motors are so freaking variable in reliability. Even in military, medical, aerospace, and semi-conductor worlds, the highest spec suppliers don't even use the same (though it's very similar) methods to rate their stuff.

[mactec54]

I came on here because I have a bunch of time to kill before my machine shows up and I wanted to make educated decisions about the control and spindle drive. Jim has answered my questions, with a little helpful side commentary by StrawberryBoi. I have mostly just ignored you.

Your username is all over a lot of boards that I have run into while doing some research, so pardon me if I doubt your half-hour claim. Again, I don't think you realize how little you are actually contributing in relation to how prolific a contributor you are.

Please don't take this personally. I don't know you at all, so consider this constructive criticism from a stranger. Or ignore me! Also fine!

If you have seen me on other boards you are mistaken I 'm not anywhere else, only on the Zone other people may be quoting me with links to me but that is it I don't go on any other sites