Which Spindle and VFD... again

[ericks]

Let's consider the motor nameplate Adam just posted. The two important values we need to consider is the voltage...in this case 220V, for this motor its the maximum voltage to be supplied to the motor.
10A is what we call the motor full load current...IFL. This is the maximum allowable current to be consumed by the motor, that is dependent on the load. You must adjust the protection levels to make sure the power to the motor is removed if the load continues to exceed this 10A value.

[adam_m]

Let's consider the motor nameplate Adam just posted. The two important values we need to consider is the voltage...in this case 220V, for this motor its the maximum voltage to be supplied to the motor.
10A is what we call the motor full load current...IFL. This is the maximum allowable current to be consumed by the motor, that is dependent on the load. You must adjust the protection levels to make sure the power to the motor is removed if the load continues to exceed this 10A value.

So assuming 3phase is this correct?

[skrubol]

Yes, it's 3 phase, but cos phi is another way of signifying power factor. So PF is only .75 for that motor, not 1.
So if that motor was 100% efficient (it's not) it would be around 2.9 kW.
Load from the wall (single phase) for a real 4kW motor will probably be between 25 and 30 A. For a 10A motor (2.2-2.6 kW) more like 15-20 A.

[adam_m]

So how do I perform a like-to-like comparison of these motors that seem to be obviously overstating their output capabilities?

I think I have to assume the following, correct me if I'm wrong:
1 - 220v input to VFD
2 - VFD output to 3phase and based on the VFD above it has a working range of 304V-456V (Gerry, I think this still fits in the original HUANYANG units that most people have had success with)

[skrubol]

I think that working range is the bus voltage, which is DC, based on the input AC voltage * sqrt(2). So normally, without the motor running, with 220V in you'll have a bus voltage of about 311V. The reason for the higher voltage range is in braking, the motor acts as a generator and will push the bus voltage above the supply voltage.
Or it may be that it's just a stat from the 380V version of the drive and it ended up in the description accidentally (more likely, I don't think many 220V drives can tolerate much beyond 400V bus voltage.)

[mactec54]

So how do I perform a like-to-like comparison of these motors that seem to be obviously overstating their output capabilities?

I think I have to assume the following, correct me if I'm wrong:
1 - 220v input to VFD
2 - VFD output to 3phase and based on the VFD above it has a working range of 304V-456V (Gerry, I think this still fits in the original HUANYANG units that most people have had success with)

You are confusing yourself by play with numbers that are not possible, your VFD 3Ph output Voltage can never be more than the input supply Voltage

Get one thing correct to start with NA voltage is 240V and can +/- 5v ( not 220V ) so you VFD input voltage will be what ever your supply Voltage is, which will be around 240V, the output voltage is controlled by ( 2 ) Parameter that is set to what ever your spindle Voltage is which most spindles coming from China are 220V so the max output voltage will be 220V to suit your spindle

[mactec54]

I think that working range is the bus voltage, which is DC, based on the input AC voltage * sqrt(2). So normally, without the motor running, with 220V in you'll have a bus voltage of about 311V. The reason for the higher voltage range is in braking, the motor acts as a generator and will push the bus voltage above the supply voltage.
Or it may be that it's just a stat from the 380V version of the drive and it ended up in the description accidentally (more likely, I don't think many 220V drives can tolerate much beyond 400V bus voltage.)

You should know better, his VFD Drive would not have 220v input voltage if you live in NA

His Bus Voltage would normally be for NA supply around 330V to 340V this has nothing to do with the output Voltage

[adam_m]

220/240... I'm still stuck trying to evaluate spindles based on bogus numbers given by the manufactures.

If the spindle shows 10amp and 4kw using 240v I hear everyone saying no way, so how do I evaluate them?

Is the calculator that the website is using wrong?

Based on a 6amp 2.2kw 220v motor the calculator seems to get it correct as well as the 10amp motor? I realize this is no load.. etc.

[mactec54]

220/240... I'm still stuck trying to evaluate spindles based on bogus numbers given by the manufactures.

If the spindle shows 10amp and 4kw using 240v I hear everyone saying no way, so how do I evaluate them?

Is the calculator that the website is using wrong?

Based on a 6amp 2.2kw 220v motor the calculator seems to get it correct as well as the 10amp motor? I realize this is no load.. etc.

As I said you are just confusing yourself with numbers I have a 2.2Kw spindle and it is rated at 12amps, 10amp is the norm for a 2.2Kw running on 220v so you are not going to have a 2.2Kw 6amp motor this would be what a 380v motor would be

2.2Kw 220v 10A

2.2Kw 380v 6A

[skrubol]

You keep using Power Factor of 1. Typically it's around .75 for motors this size.
Plus that calculator is measuring input power. Spindles are (or should be) rated in output power. So the output of that calculator needs to be multiplied by the efficiency, another * .75 to .9 depending on the motor (not usually specified for spindle motors.)

[ger21]

If the spindle shows 10amp and 4kw using 240v I hear everyone saying no way, so how do I evaluate them?

By the current (amp) rating.

Your average chinese 2.2Kw spindle is ~9 amps.
Just extrapolate the numbers.

If you want a 4Kw spindle, it should be roughly 9x(4/2.2), or about 16 amps. A chinese 4Kw spindle can probably be anywhere from 14-18 amps. If it's rated less, then it's not as powerful as they are telling you.

[ericks]

By the current (amp) rating.

Your average chinese 2.2Kw spindle is ~9 amps.
Just extrapolate the numbers.

If you want a 4Kw spindle, it should be roughly 9x(4/2.2), or about 16 amps. A chinese 4Kw spindle can probably be anywhere from 14-18 amps. If it's rated less, then it's not as powerful as they are telling you.

correct

That looks good......
He can expect quite a bit of current drawn by the VFD if the spindle is loaded high

[adam_m]

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the VFD and just wanted to ask if I'm going to have any compatibility issues getting this working with my setup. I've got Mach3 and a g540 and of course want to be able to control the spindle speed with Mach.

To make this somewhat seamless do I need to incorporate some type of relay for powering on and off the VFD? Is there a doc floating around with some information on wiring that up?

Does anyone have any experiences with the HuanYang GT series vs the HY series drives?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...RHIIBHYY&psc=1

Thanks for all the input it's been a learning experience for me.

Adam,

[ger21]

The G540 manual shows how to add a relay. The relay just opens and closes a circuit from the VFD between the forward and ground terminals.

You can use the G540 analog speed control to control RPM from Mach3.

Note that the Huanyang plugins that most people use with Mach3 will not work with the GT series, but you don't need them if you use analog speed control and a relay.

[adam_m]

The G540 manual shows how to add a relay. The relay just opens and closes a circuit from the VFD between the forward and ground terminals.

You can use the G540 analog speed control to control RPM from Mach3.

Note that the Huanyang plugins that most people use with Mach3 will not work with the GT series, but you don't need them if you use analog speed control and a relay.

Gerry, what do you mean by "You can use the G540 analog speed control to control RPM from Mach3." What is the other option(s) that would be available?

What plugins are people using with Mach3 that I might be missing out on?

[ger21]

Mach3 has at least 3 ways to control a spindle.

1) Step/Direction, which requires additional hardware to convert the step/direction signals to 0-10V analog.
2) PWM. The G540 has a built in PWM to 0-10V analog converter.
3) Modbus. The Huanyang HY VFD uses a nonstandard implementation of modbus. Becasue of this at least 2 users have written Mach3 plugins to communicate with the Huanyang HY VFD's. This is probably the most popular one.
Mach3 plugin for Huanyang VFD | Le royaume d'éole

[Al_The_Man]

Here is a way to control the ON function without the relay, the G540 will switch the PLC input of the VFD direct.
Al.

[adam_m]

Mach3 has at least 3 ways to control a spindle.

1) Step/Direction, which requires additional hardware to convert the step/direction signals to 0-10V analog.
2) PWM. The G540 has a built in PWM to 0-10V analog converter.
3) Modbus. The Huanyang HY VFD uses a nonstandard implementation of modbus. Becasue of this at least 2 users have written Mach3 plugins to communicate with the Huanyang HY VFD's. This is probably the most popular one.
Mach3 plugin for Huanyang VFD | Le royaume d'éole

Option 2 I think would be my path unless the following statement from the description of the unit is bogus?.

"Rich of digital and analogy control terminals for versitile control , optional MODBUS (RS485) extension,diversified parameter setting.Work well with the Mach 3 controller "

Thanks Al_the_man, that looks like a direct wire up and no need for any additional wiring except from the G540 to the VFD to make the power on/off functionality work, unless I'm missing something?

[EDIT]

Al_the_man, what does "FOR" stand for?

They've also posted a schematic of the VFD wiring..

[ger21]

FOR = Forward.
The Forward run input on the VFD.

[Al_The_Man]

Thanks Al_the_man, that looks like a direct wire up and no need for any additional wiring except from the G540 to the VFD to make the power on/off functionality work, unless I'm missing something?

Al_the_man, what does "FOR" stand for?

They've also posted a schematic of the VFD wiring..

Yes, the details for the Huanyang VFD's I have show the inputs by function FOR, REV, RST etc.
I have used this method on the Huanyang and should work on any VFD with a similar style of these PLC inputs that are sourced from DC +ve or are capable of being set up for sourced input..
Al.