Which Spindle and VFD... again

[ger21]

Yes, there are some people who managed to decipher and implement plugins for both Mach3 and UCCNC so users can use RS485, but it is sooooooo much easier to implement in Brains in Mach3, or writing macros for UCCNC when the protocol is standard Modbus. It took me an hour in Mach3 to get the basic controls working and only a half an hour to write a basic macro code for UCCNC.

It took me about two minutes to setup the plugin and get the spindle running. I'd consider that to be sooooooooo much easier than writing brains and macros, and entering all of the modbus info.

[mactec54]

Yes, I have also looked at their "Modbus" and they definitely smoked something when they created that protocol. I have no idea why they wanted to invent the square wheel when there are round ones which work well... Modbus is open standard, and it was open ALL the time, so there was really no reason for them to create their own and invent something which is NOT Modbus.


Yes, there are some people who managed to decipher and implement plugins for both Mach3 and UCCNC so users can use RS485, but it is sooooooo much easier to implement in Brains in Mach3, or writing macros for UCCNC when the protocol is standard Modbus. It took me an hour in Mach3 to get the basic controls working and only a half an hour to write a basic macro code for UCCNC. Of course, today I have more than just ON/OFF/FWD/REV and RPM controls...

Note that Al stated early manuals from more than 5 years ago, there VFDs and manuals are very good now, and no different than your Chinese made Bosch

[A_Camera]

It took me about two minutes to setup the plugin and get the spindle running. I'd consider that to be sooooooooo much easier than writing brains and macros, and entering all of the modbus info.

Definitely easier when you rely on other people doing the work. But if they don't do it, or if you are the first then which one is easier...? Implementing a well documented STANDARD or inventing and deciphering a "custom" version?

[A_Camera]

Note that Al stated early manuals from more than 5 years ago, there VFDs and manuals are very good now, and no different than your Chinese made Bosch

Post an example of a model matching Bosch, Yaskawa, Scneider, Hitachi... You quoted a page earlier which is just crap and nonsense. My Chinese made Bosch is at least well made and well documented, and is STANDARD regarding Modbus, fulfiling ALL EU electrical regulations and safety standards, as opposed to the ones I have seen on eBay and one every forum, including this one.

You keep using "Chinese" as if you want to offend me with that word. As I said earlier, I don't care if something is Chinese, American or German, as long as it is quality. In all those countries they make quality products as well as crap, and for your information, Bosch is so huge today that they have manufacturing all over the world in MANY countries, not only China and not only Asia, also in EU.

[A_Camera]

If you are going to buy a chinese VFD, make sure you get a genuine Huanyang.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP-QUALITY...kAAOSwyQtVvbWL

Yes, frequency is what controls the RPM.

What make you say that this VFD is more "genuine" HY then others? I really don't know what is the difference and probably many people are interested in what is a "genuine" HY.

I was in contact with that specific seller ever since you posted this link and tried to get the user guide for that VFD. He was OK, answered fast, friendly and solution oriented, and finally today I received the manual. I really can't see any difference compared to other HY manuals I have seen before. Modbus is still the same self-invented, non-standard type, and the VFD is pretty poorly documented, though it may be enough for the "average Joe" to set up and use. I include the manual in this post, so those who want to read it and check it out can read it, and collectors can download it for future reference and quote parts of it as they like, and normally do.

[ger21]

What make you say that this VFD is more "genuine" HY then others?

The fake ones usually will have different terminals, and different colored labels, often blue on the front.

[mactec54]

What make you say that this VFD is more "genuine" HY then others? I really don't know what is the difference and probably many people are interested in what is a "genuine" HY.

I was in contact with that specific seller ever since you posted this link and tried to get the user guide for that VFD. He was OK, answered fast, friendly and solution oriented, and finally today I received the manual. I really can't see any difference compared to other HY manuals I have seen before. Modbus is still the same self-invented, non-standard type, and the VFD is pretty poorly documented, though it may be enough for the "average Joe" to set up and use. I include the manual in this post, so those who want to read it and check it out can read it, and collectors can download it for future reference and quote parts of it as they like, and normally do.

Because that is just an old copy that has be floating around for a few years, I will try to post the real HY manual

[mactec54]

Here is one of the manuals, the other one for the standard HY VFD Drive is to big and will not load

[Delloman]

@mactec54 that is the manual I got from this seller https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F282810965819 also USA stock got it before my CNC was shipped from CNC Router Parts only thing is you will have to add your own ground to pin 4 on the spindle as it is not connected

[adam_m]

Getting ready to pull the trigger on my spindle and VFD and had some additional questions about amp ratings and torque ratings and the distinction between motors.

- Why are some models sold having different amperage draws than others given the KW? e.g. multiple 4kw motors have 10amp or 15amp ratings...
- How can I determine the torque of a motor given that most do not list them on ebay listings?
- Is it better to have a larger VFD than the motor or should they be equal?
- Does the VFD normal only require 220 single phase input and generates 3phase output or does it require 3phase input to generate 3phase output, a little confused here..?
- Should the breaker match the amperage or double that of the motor? I will be re-using a circuit from an old hot tub which I think has a 50amp breaker, just wondering if I should change it.

Thanks,

[ericks]

Getting ready to pull the trigger on my spindle and VFD and had some additional questions about amp ratings and torque ratings and the distinction between motors.

- Why are some models sold having different amperage draws than others given the KW? e.g. multiple 4kw motors have 10amp or 15amp ratings...
- How can I determine the torque of a motor given that most do not list them on ebay listings?
- Is it better to have a larger VFD than the motor or should they be equal?
- Does the VFD normal only require 220 single phase input and generates 3phase output or does it require 3phase input to generate 3phase output, a little confused here..?
- Should the breaker match the amperage or double that of the motor? I will be re-using a circuit from an old hot tub which I think has a 50amp breaker, just wondering if I should change it.

Thanks,

Hi.....what voltage is that circuit for the old hot tub?

[mactec54]

Getting ready to pull the trigger on my spindle and VFD and had some additional questions about amp ratings and torque ratings and the distinction between motors.

- Why are some models sold having different amperage draws than others given the KW? e.g. multiple 4kw motors have 10amp or 15amp ratings...
- How can I determine the torque of a motor given that most do not list them on ebay listings?
- Is it better to have a larger VFD than the motor or should they be equal?
- Does the VFD normal only require 220 single phase input and generates 3phase output or does it require 3phase input to generate 3phase output, a little confused here..?
- Should the breaker match the amperage or double that of the motor? I will be re-using a circuit from an old hot tub which I think has a 50amp breaker, just wondering if I should change it.

Thanks,

If you have 3Ph it is always better to use it, 240v NA single phase is fine also

A 1Hp to 2Hp is better for a VFD Drive that is using Single Phase for the VFD Drive input power supply, Low Hp VFD Drives that are rated for Single Phase, Spindle Motor and VFD can have the same Hp Rating, only because they are rated for Single Phase use

There ratings are done with what voltage they are running at 380v the 4Kw would be around 10.5A your 240v NA supply would be roughly 17A

The Main Breaker should be sized for your whole machine, the average machine with a 2.2Kw spindle can use a 25A to 30A Main Breaker

Your 50A Breaker should be fine for your 4Kw spindle and Machine

[mactec54]

Hi.....what voltage is that circuit for the old hot tub?

It would be 240V

[ger21]

- Why are some models sold having different amperage draws than others given the KW? e.g. multiple 4kw motors have 10amp or 15amp ratings...

Because they are cheap chinese knockoffs. The ones with the lower current ratings likely lower powered than their rating.

- How can I determine the torque of a motor given that most do not list them on ebay listings?

I don't know if you can. Or if it's really that important, unless you want to run it at very low RPM. In which case, cheap chinese spindles are probably not the best choice.

- Is it better to have a larger VFD than the motor or should they be equal?

It's always better to have a larger VFD, but not always necessary.

- Does the VFD normal only require 220 single phase input and generates 3phase output or does it require 3phase input to generate 3phase output, a little confused here..?

Depends on the VFD. All VFD's are 3 phase input. Some are rated for both single phase and 3 phase. Others (usually over 3HP) require derating when used with single phase.


- Should the breaker match the amperage or double that of the motor? I will be re-using a circuit from an old hot tub which I think has a 50amp breaker, just wondering if I should change it.

The circuit breaker is to protect the wiring, not the motor or VFD. No need to change it.

[adam_m]

It would be 240V

Yes, its on 240.. I meant to check the breaker size before I left the house but failed to do so. I believe its a 50amp circuit.

[adam_m]

Because they are cheap chinese knockoffs. The ones with the lower current ratings likely lower powered than their rating.

I don't know if you can. Or if it's really that important, unless you want to run it at very low RPM. In which case, cheap chinese spindles are probably not the best choice.

It's always better to have a larger VFD, but not always necessary.

The circuit breaker is to protect the wiring, not the motor or VFD. No need to change it.

So I should look for one that is advertising a larger amperage consumption and a VFD atleast the equivalent or larger than the motor?

I was leaning towards the following:

Spindle:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-4kw-Air...53.m1438.l2649

VFD:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HY-BRAND-22...53.m1438.l2649

[ericks]

I can't believe that a 4Kw motor would only draw 10A at 220V!!!

[ger21]

Yes, most water cooled 2.2kw spindles are 10 amps, so that spindle is a lot closer to 2.2kw than 4kw.

[ericks]

Yes, most water cooled 2.2kw spindles are 10 amps, so that spindle is a lot closer to 2.2kw than 4kw.

Yes 2.2 Kw sounds better at that current rating

- - - Updated - - -

[ger21]

This 4.5Kw spindle is 16.5 amps.

65% more power.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Spindle...r=501966307089