5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle


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    Question 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    I have a 5.5Kw Huanyang vfd and would like to run a 2.2Kw spindle.

    If all the settings are correct on the vfd should this work?

    I "heard" not to use a VFD that's made for more than twice the power of the spindle, any logic to that?

    thanks

    Stefan

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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by stefancnc View Post
    I have a 5.5Kw Huanyang vfd and would like to run a 2.2Kw spindle.

    If all the settings are correct on the vfd should this work?

    I "heard" not to use a VFD that's made for more than twice the power of the spindle, any logic to that?

    thanks

    Stefan
    Yes you can use it without any problems, bigger is always better, what you heard is by someone that does not know anything about VF Drives

    Do you have the correct Parameters to set, the VFD Drive ??? this is important

    Don't do a VFD Drive ReSet, this can cause problems when changing to the parameters that you need to set

    What are the 2.2Kw Spindle spec's ???

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    I have a 1.5kw spindle on the cnc now. And a 1.5kw (Huanyang HY series) and a 5.5kw (Huanyang GT series) vfd

    Specs of the new spindle I would get are 220V, 3ph, 6A, 2.2kw. 2 Pole, 24000 rpm 400hz

    I wonder,... the 1.5Kw I run now draws up to 7A, how can a 2.2kw only draw 6A?

    And if so, could I run the 2.2kw with the same inverter I have on the 1.5kw now? It runs up to 8Amp,...

    Main issues is that I now have a ER11 collet, and would appreciate a ER20 collet. Then again, I would like to get real 2.2kw power to run the bigger bits.

    Thanks for the advice,

    Stefan



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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by stefancnc View Post
    I have a 1.5kw spindle on the cnc now. And a 1.5kw (Huanyang HY series) and a 5.5kw (Huanyang GT series) vfd

    Specs of the new spindle I would get are 220V, 3ph, 6A, 2.2kw. 2 Pole, 24000 rpm 400hz

    I wonder,... the 1.5Kw I run now draws up to 7A, how can a 2.2kw only draw 6A?

    And if so, could I run the 2.2kw with the same inverter I have on the 1.5kw now? It runs up to 8Amp,...

    Main issues is that I now have a ER11 collet, and would appreciate a ER20 collet. Then again, I would like to get real 2.2kw power to run the bigger bits.

    Thanks for the advice,

    Stefan
    The answer is no, not unless the VFD Drive has a Max Amp rating of 12Amps or more, it will run it but may not last very long

    You will see all kind of numbers, the real number for a 2.2Kw on 220v is 10A I always recommend to use 9Amps for the Parameter setting

    You must use the Correct Parameter settings for these spindles or you will damage the VFD or Spindle

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    I agree, good advice.

    I don't understand why I see 2.2kw 220V spindles rated at 10A and rated at 6A, doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps they are putting a rating of 6A just to keep users from pushing the spindle to the max ? ...

    Last edited by stefancnc; 04-19-2018 at 04:49 PM.


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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by stefancnc View Post
    I agree, good advice.

    I don't understand why I see 2.2kw 220V spindles rated at 10A and rated at 6A, doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps they are putting a rating of 6A just to keep users from pushing the spindle to the max ? ...
    6A would be when they are used on 380v, China uses 380v for there 3 phase supply, they just have the wrong marking on the spindle

    Last edited by mactec54; 04-19-2018 at 07:01 PM.
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by stefancnc View Post
    I have a 1.5kw spindle on the cnc now. And a 1.5kw (Huanyang HY series) and a 5.5kw (Huanyang GT series) vfd

    Specs of the new spindle I would get are 220V, 3ph, 6A, 2.2kw. 2 Pole, 24000 rpm 400hz

    I wonder,... the 1.5Kw I run now draws up to 7A, how can a 2.2kw only draw 6A?

    And if so, could I run the 2.2kw with the same inverter I have on the 1.5kw now? It runs up to 8Amp,...

    Stefan
    "And if so, could I run the 2.2kw with the same inverter I have on the 1.5kw now? It runs up to 8Amp,..."

    it depends on how efficient the motor is and what its power factor is. 8 amps times 220volts times 1.73 is 3050 watts.

    Multiply by 0.7 for power factor and 0.8 for efficiency and you get 1700 watts of shaft power, the motor may be more or less efficient than those numbers of course.

    If it really does take 10 amps of line current to get 2200 watts from the shaft then the motor has 3800 VA going into it. since we don't know the efficiency or the power factor, if we assume both are the same, then its on the order of 75% efficient and 75% power factor.


    on the other hand these motors may be rated in Chinese watts not real ones.. combined with false advertizing like a 6 amp 220v 3 phase 2200 watt spindle.

    note that 6 times 220vac times 1.73 is actually 2283 watts.. so this is one more datapoint to suggest that the spindles are advertized by electrical watts (real and imaginary) going into the motor, Not shaft power going out; so a 2200 watt 6 amp spindle may be half the size than a 2200 watt 10 amp spindle. one person rates by shaft power, the other by input power. are the prices substantially different?



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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Looks like, if I do get this Chinese 2.2kw spindle, I'll be putting it on the 5.5Kw inverter at 220V 10Amp.

    At least I'm pretty sure I'm upgrading to a ER20 collet



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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by stefancnc View Post
    Looks like, if I do get this Chinese 2.2kw spindle, I'll be putting it on the 5.5Kw inverter at 220V 10Amp.

    At least I'm pretty sure I'm upgrading to a ER20 collet
    well at least verify that its a 2.2KW shaft power spindle, not a 2.2KW electrical input spindle which will only deliver 1.3KW to the shaft.. if its one of these then your existing vfd can drive it.



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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    I have a 4kw vfd that I use to run a 1.5 motor.

    Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk

    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldon_Joh View Post
    well at least verify that its a 2.2KW shaft power spindle, not a 2.2KW electrical input spindle which will only deliver 1.3KW to the shaft.. if its one of these then your existing vfd can drive it.
    I think it would be best if you spend your own money and buy one of these spindles and a VFD Drive, then tell everyone what they already know, there are thousands of these Spindles already being used, they have been available for about 8 years, you are not helping anyone with your uninformative information

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    I think it would be best if you spend your own money and buy one of these spindles and a VFD Drive, then tell everyone what they already know, there are thousands of these Spindles already being used, they have been available for about 8 years, you are not helping anyone with your uninformative information
    i might, just for s#*ts and giggles. but how do i know if its the same one you've got? or am i presuming something?



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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldon_Joh View Post
    i might, just for s#*ts and giggles. but how do i know if its the same one you've got? or am i presuming something?
    You don't, but there is not much difference between them, the price sometimes, give you a hint, you get what you pay for, I have installed and repaired lots of them, some are high quality and some are not so, but still work ok

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: 5.5Kw VFD running a 2.2Kw spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldon_Joh View Post
    "And if so, could I run the 2.2kw with the same inverter I have on the 1.5kw now? It runs up to 8Amp,..."

    it depends on how efficient the motor is and what its power factor is. 8 amps times 220volts times 1.73 is 3050 watts.

    Multiply by 0.7 for power factor and 0.8 for efficiency and you get 1700 watts of shaft power, the motor may be more or less efficient than those numbers of course.

    If it really does take 10 amps of line current to get 2200 watts from the shaft then the motor has 3800 VA going into it. since we don't know the efficiency or the power factor, if we assume both are the same, then its on the order of 75% efficient and 75% power factor.


    on the other hand these motors may be rated in Chinese watts not real ones.. combined with false advertizing like a 6 amp 220v 3 phase 2200 watt spindle.

    note that 6 times 220vac times 1.73 is actually 2283 watts.. so this is one more datapoint to suggest that the spindles are advertized by electrical watts (real and imaginary) going into the motor, Not shaft power going out; so a 2200 watt 6 amp spindle may be half the size than a 2200 watt 10 amp spindle. one person rates by shaft power, the other by input power. are the prices substantially different?

    I was going to say something similar (except not as well as you said it). It is not at all unusual for different spindles with the same KW rating to state a different number of amps. Not all 2.2kw motors are equally powerful (or efficient). That's before you get to differences between peak hp and continuous ratings. I have seen a (much) larger variance that 6a - 10a.

    The Chinese spindle manufacturer issue is a further complication. I have found 2 or 3 different amp ratings on the same product. They can get a little liberal with the truth sometimes.... if almost feels like the just make it up sometimes....

    Most of the advice that I got (that is worth listening to) is to use the volt and amp ratings to specify drives, not the hp or KW.

    you just need to know how many amps a VFD puts out at 240v 3ph and how many it needs to draw from a 1ph 240v outlet to achieve it. For example, my VFD draws up to 54a 1ph 240v to output up to 30a 3ph 240v.



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