Fanuc spindle motor with ACI VFD

[Brinmetal]

Dear All

I am newbie in this field with Frequency drives. We have one Wasino cnc lathe wich has a bad Fanuc controller, and I decided to renew it with Chinese cnc controller and with VFD spindle controller.
On the stock we have ACI Zhufeng VFD, wich is matched the Fanuc spindle motor kw.
Could anyone help to set the best parameters for our VFD to keep the torque(as much as possible)in lower RPM?
In attachment are the picture of Fanuc nameplate, and the manual for ACI frequency drive.
Thanks in advance.


The manual from the ACI inverter:

http://www.powerton.com.cn/download/...E%E4%B9%A6.pdf

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[Brinmetal]

[Jim Dawson]

Your link to the manual does not work. But, make sure you are operating the VFD in sensorless vector mode.

[Brinmetal]

Your link to the manual does not work. But, make sure you are operating the VFD in sensorless vector mode.

Dear Jim

I was study the VFD controllers and lookin arround youtube, but everyone told a different. I realize that it not can be as with original Fanuc driver. I think that ACI Zhufeng has no sensorless possibility, but I try to send the manual in ZIP once again. Please help to me.

Arpad

[Jim Dawson]

OK, I have been reading the manual. It looks like setting the Torque Boost, d0.09 might be helpful. Also maybe the Slip Compensation, d3.05. See page 113.

I am replacing my Fanuc spindle drive with a VFD also. Please tell me, does your VFD run the spindle OK, other than the low torque at low speed?

[Brinmetal]

OK, I have been reading the manual. It looks like setting the Torque Boost, d0.09 might be helpful. Also maybe the Slip Compensation, d3.05. See page 113.

I am replacing my Fanuc spindle drive with a VFD also. Please tell me, does your VFD run the spindle OK, other than the low torque at low speed?

Thanks Jim

In a meantime I was seaching more about spindle drives, and the best thing is to have a drive with encoder feedback connection as the Fanuc has. There are a few chinese product like that, but anyway it is more expensive, and if is goes wrong with Zhufeng I will switch on that type.
Go back to ordinary VFD.
In some topics some people play with frequency like D0.02 D0.06 D0.07 D0.19 D0.20
If I not asking too much, pls make a parameter set up as you think for my Fanuc, and I will check wether is the same as I think.
My controller is working with analog 0-10 Volt

Regards Arpad

[Jim Dawson]

Other than setting the normal motor parameters and acceleration and deceleration to about 3 seconds, I would increase the torque boost and slip compensation. The rest of the parameters I don't know about. I would just keep trying different things until the motor runs the best it can.

I think the motor performance is going to be limited at lower speeds because you are not using a sensorless vector VFD,

[Brinmetal]

You think that a sensorless control without feedback is a right think to use a Fanuc lathe spindle, and have a good torque on lower RPM?

[Jim Dawson]

I think sensorless vector is the correct VFD. Sensorless vector VFD's will produce 100% torque at 0 RPM. I have never operated one with feedback, but I'm getting ready to order one.

Does your Fanuc motor have a ''Pulse Coder'' encoder on it?

This is the VFD that I will be using on my 7.5KW spindle https://www.automationdirect.com/adc..._SLV)/GS3-2010

I have the same type GS3 2.2KW VFD running my milling machine spindle and am very happy with the result.

[Brinmetal]

I think sensorless vector is the correct VFD. Sensorless vector VFD's will produce 100% torque at 0 RPM. I have never operated one with feedback, but I'm getting ready to order one.

Does your Fanuc motor have a ''Pulse Coder'' encoder on it?

This is the VFD that I will be using on my 7.5KW spindle https://www.automationdirect.com/adc..._SLV)/GS3-2010

I have the same type GS3 2.2KW VFD running my milling machine spindle and am very happy with the result.

If you have an experience with sensorless mode it is great. I only use the VFD in to moove rollformer machines(for our own production)but it is far more simple then a lathe or mill. Becouse of chinese spring festival, the information is coming slower, but after I think 22 or 24 February I have all prices from most potential suppliers, I let you infrom you about it.
The right "servo" drives has the same wiring as the fanuc had. UVW , 2 wires for motors temperature, and A+A-B+B-C+C-.
Yes my Fanuc has the pulse coder on it.
In Monday I wired up my Fanuc, and inform you about it. There are enough information for tests, and I believe that the motor dont burned out during the tests.

Good night

Arpad

[mactec54]

Your link to the manual does not work. But, make sure you are operating the VFD in sensorless vector mode.

His spindle motor needs Encoder feed back to the VFD to work correctly, they are not an easy motor to get working on a none Faunc spec VFD Drive

[Jim Dawson]

His spindle motor needs Encoder feed back to the VFD to work correctly, they are not an easy motor to get working on a none Faunc spec VFD Drive

If that was a permanent magnet servo motor I would agree with you. But those spindle motors seem to be a standard(ish) 3 phase 4 pole motor and not designed for accurate indexing, only good for 1 degree. I'm about to find out how well this works out because I am hanging a GS3 VFD on my 7.5 KW Fanuc spindle motor next week.

[mactec54]

If that was a permanent magnet servo motor I would agree with you. But those spindle motors seem to be a standard(ish) 3 phase 4 pole motor and not designed for accurate indexing, only good for 1 degree. I'm about to find out how well this works out because I am hanging a GS3 VFD on my 7.5 KW Fanuc spindle motor next week.

You may be for getting something, this is a lathe and needs to be able to synchronized the spindle for threading, on these it is normally done with the motor encoder, and a spindle encoder, it would depend on what control he has, as it will be looking for the motor feed back from the VFD

[Jim Dawson]

You may be for getting something, this is a lathe and needs to be able to synchronized the spindle for threading, on these it is normally done with the motor encoder, and a spindle encoder, it would depend on what control he has, as it will be looking for the motor feed back from the VFD

You are correct. Threading is going to be a bit of a problem, OK, impossible without syncing the spindle and the Z axis. As you say, it depends on what control he has. I suspect that there are going to be a lot more issues than just getting the motor to turn. The control is going to be looking for the spindle drive and will throw a lot of errors.

On my 0-T controller the motor encoder was connected directly to the main computer and fed the drive from there. I have no idea what encoder magic was going on in the main computer. I'm solving the problem by ripping out everything that says Fanuc on it (except the spindle motor) and replacing it with my system. New drives, servos, and controller.

[Brinmetal]

You may be for getting something, this is a lathe and needs to be able to synchronized the spindle for threading, on these it is normally done with the motor encoder, and a spindle encoder, it would depend on what control he has, as it will be looking for the motor feed back from the VFD

The method of the retrofit was that I purchased(already tested with servo motors, on table) an SZGH 1000 Tdb controller wich was working with step/dir for axes, and 0-10V for spindle control, and have input for spindle encoder. This encoder was mounted direct on a spindle shaft. I think that the right driver (if I need to have spindle orientation, and threading function). is to have a spindle driver with encoder feedback. But this is another encoder wich was mounted on Motors shaft(already in Fanuc motor also) I found some chinese types(I attach one of them here)
But if I dont want to have threading, and I need a budget retrofit, is that possible to do it with my general purpose ACI Zhufeng VFD? It more then interesting, that Zhufeng has only V/F mode. What do you think?
Also what do you think about attached driver? Is that suitable for my Fanuc motor?

At least sorry for my bad english.

Arpad

[Jim Dawson]

I think that your only problem will be low torque at slow speeds with a VF drive. Your encoders should allow threading with your control.

It looks like that any of the KEWO drives would work.

[Brinmetal]

I think that your only problem will be low torque at slow speeds with a VF drive. Your encoders should allow threading with your control.

It looks like that any of the KEWO drives would work.

The Wasino is built to reach up to 4000 RPM but we dont use more than 2000 RPM. Maybe I try to limit the speed up to 2000 RPM, and with this becomes easyer to have torque on 300 RPM like a minimum speed. Tomorrow I make some tests with it, but I cant load the spindle becouse the servo motors(new)are not mounted jet.
Do you have an idea what can we do with old DC servo motors? Some company produce the drives for DC servo motors, or we try to figure out, what connections are required for their original Fanuc drives? They are not working on the base of step/dir isnt?

[Jim Dawson]

I don't think the maximum speed will have any effect on the low speed.

I am not understanding. Do you have the Fanuc DC servo motors? Do you have the Fanuc DC servo drives?

No, the Fanuc servo drives will not accept a step & direction input, they want a +/- 10 volt analog input.

There are companies that make drives that will accept step & direction and will run a DC servo motor.

[Brinmetal]

I don't think the maximum speed will have any effect on the low speed.

I am not understanding. Do you have the Fanuc DC servo motors? Do you have the Fanuc DC servo drives?

No, the Fanuc servo drives will not accept a step & direction input, they want a +/- 10 volt analog input.

There are companies that make drives that will accept step & direction and will run a DC servo motor.

I just ask you, becouse as I told the Wasino wich I want to retrofit has 2 yellow cap servo motors with good drives, and we also used 1 Kiwa excelcenter milling machine with exact the same 3M Fanuc as Wasino lathe(3T). This days the Kiwa is also has a problem with spindle drive, and I dont find anybody who will repair. So after a lathe maybe we retrofit the milling macghine too. It means that I have 4 yellow cap fanuc dc motors with a drives free for use them. I dont know is anybody produce breakout board for cnc with +10-10Volt, or need some card with step/dir IN and +-10 Volt OUT?
Another
I find one cheaper VFD with encoder feedback for spindle motor named ISTECH. Its cost cca 210 USD(the 7,5KW type). In attach you can find the manual. Please tell me your tought about. If is good I will purchase one.

Regards

[Jim Dawson]

I'm not sure what the voltage and amps is for your DC servo motors. It is possible that a drive like this would work for your axis drives. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Servo-Dr...kAAOSwagdXSaQJ

I do not know of any breakout board that will convert step & direction to +/- 10V analog.

Regarding the ISTECH VFD, at least it is it can run with sensorless vector and can accept encoder feedback. The documentation is very good, easy to read. But is it a good VFD? I do not know.