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  1. #41
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    To settle it in my own mind I contacted the engineering dept at Hyria Electrical where their VFD's are produced evidently, to get a definitive answer to the 1 phase hookup, all the latest manuals they sent me, all declare any two of R,S,T, which is what I found worked in practice.
    But the results to my query were ambiguous to say the least, I was not impressed with their technical support.
    They also sent me some factory originated instructional hook-up videos, The videos were very amateurish and gave me the same impression of those Utube videos that some have shown in their basement type set ups.
    The 'Engineer' doing the set up's was using an old moving coil meter in the instructional.!
    The Video stated any two of RST, but the person later said "I use R & T" for some reason without clarifying it!.
    My query was specifically concerning this issue, but the non-definitive answers I received from different sources left me with the idea that no one there has a clue.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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  2. #42
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by onecut View Post
    Ok, I hooked up the VFD and powered the VFD up only with the spindle unplugged and all other power off and set the parameters on the VFD.
    I pushed the run button and arrow key up and down all seams to be ok. I guess I'm ready to hook the spindle up and test it but before I do,
    I would like to get feedback on the wiring dia. I made. Now I'm no electrician, That is why I need input on the wire dia. Just don't want to see the blue smoke.
    The parameter I used on the VFD are on the top right side of the wire dia. Fill free to pick it all apart because it all needs to be right.
    And thanks for all input. Attachment 388774
    Looks ok with the VFD wiring side is all correct, I did not check the rest, could not get it enlarged enough to see everything clearly, the PD142 should be 9 I think you have it at 8 your spindle may say 8 but it really is 10, so 9 is safe for the 2.2Kw spindle

    Mactec54


  3. #43
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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    To settle it in my own mind I contacted the engineering dept at Hyria Electrical where their VFD's are produced evidently, to get a definitive answer to the 1 phase hookup, all the latest manuals they sent me, all declare any two of R,S,T, which is what I found worked in practice.
    But the results to my query were ambiguous to say the least, I was not impressed with their technical support.
    They also sent me some factory originated instructional hook-up videos, The videos were very amateurish and gave me the same impression of those Utube videos that some have shown in their basement type set ups.
    The 'Engineer' doing the set up's was using an old moving coil meter in the instructional.!
    The Video stated any two of RST, but the person later said "I use R & T" for some reason without clarifying it!.
    My query was specifically concerning this issue, but the non-definitive answers I received from different sources left me with the idea that no one there has a clue.
    Al.
    You only worked with one of these, when you have worked with hundreds of them you would soon change your mind

    They found out like I did that R and T was more reliable, R and S does work, as does S and T, neither of these connections have been reliable, those that have used any 2 as in the instructions have not ended so well

    Any of the sellers now will tell the end user to connect the R and T terminals, with this VFD, some of them have learnt they don't get as many returns when wired this way, why the factory does not change the manual, it would solve this problem that you have with it

    Any other quality VFD drive manufacture gives you the correct wiring information

    Mactec54


  4. #44
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    If you have worked on hundreds of them then give a definitive electronic reason for using this method, all I have uncovered so far is a input diagram of the input for these VFD's which shows a 3 phase rectifier only, which if this is correct then it certainly does not matter.
    There would be a difference in the components connected to any one phase.a 3ph rectifier does not discriminate!
    Until then I am not using anecdotal evidence for the reason.
    This is the reason I contacted the factory and they could not even give me a definitive reason.
    The statement that "they found it more reliable" is not an answer I would expect from factory technical support.
    Similar to a statement made in another post regarding Powertran VFD where it was claimed that only R &T should be used and the factory refuted it, it turned out it did not matter which pair was powered 1 phase.
    Al_The_Man

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Looks ok with the VFD wiring side is all correct, I did not check the rest, could not get it enlarged enough to see everything clearly, the PD142 should be 9 I think you have it at 8 your spindle may say 8 but it really is 10, so 9 is safe for the 2.2Kw spindle
    Thanks Mactec54,
    I changed PD142 to 9 and I have a new file maybe its better to see.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw-s-wire-dia-2-jpg   Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw-p-wire-dia-7-jpg  
    Last edited by onecut; 03-12-2018 at 07:10 AM. Reason: Can't see pic


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    If you have worked on hundreds of them then give a definitive electronic reason for using this method, all I have uncovered so far is a input diagram of the input for these VFD's which shows a 3 phase rectifier only, which if this is correct then it certainly does not matter.
    There would be a difference in the components connected to any one phase.a 3ph rectifier does not discriminate!
    Until then I am not using anecdotal evidence for the reason.
    This is the reason I contacted the factory and they could not even give me a definitive reason.
    The statement that "they found it more reliable" is not an answer I would expect from factory technical support.
    Similar to a statement made in another post regarding Powertran VFD where it was claimed that only R &T should be used and the factory refuted it, it turned out it did not matter which pair was powered 1 phase.
    Al_The_Man
    They both work fine on mine too. As the people that actually make the product also say that any will work, I'd be inclined to listen to them (and your own real world experience) and common sense. My VFD allows either 1ph or 3 ph in. That wouldn't be possible if one of the connections didn't work.

    It's easy enough to look at the boards to see for yourself if they are made with different or inferior components for just one of the three terminals. Looks the same on mine.

    There are a small number of people that, if given the opportunity, will waste as much of your time with this nonsense as you allow. Luckily it's a tiny minority but you can save a lot of time and confusion by learning who they are and ignoring them. That's been my experience anyway.



  7. #47
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    They both work fine on mine too. As the people that actually make the product also say that any will work, I'd be inclined to listen to them (and your own real world experience) and common sense. My VFD allows either 1ph or 3 ph in. That wouldn't be possible if one of the connections didn't work.

    It's easy enough to look at the boards to see for yourself if they are made with different or inferior components for just one of the three terminals. Looks the same on mine.

    There are a small number of people that, if given the opportunity, will waste as much of your time with this nonsense as you allow. Luckily it's a tiny minority but you can save a lot of time and confusion by learning who they are and ignoring them. That's been my experience anyway.
    You would not know what you are looking at, it has nothing to do with any of the terminals, this is a bit out of your depth of knowledge, to be making such comments

    You obvious did not read what Al posted about the video he got from the manufacture, ( The Video stated any two of RST, but the person later said "I use R & T" for some reason without clarifying it!. ) So even the manufacture prefers to use R and T, no one has ever said you can't use any two R, S, T, terminal connections, as it says in there manual, but it has been documented many times that the R and T connection has been the most reliable for this VFD Drive, 90% of all VFD Drives use R and S connection, which is specified by the Manufacture

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    They both work fine on mine too. As the people that actually make the product also say that any will work, I'd be inclined to listen to them (and your own real world experience) and common sense. My VFD allows either 1ph or 3 ph in. That wouldn't be possible if one of the connections didn't work.
    .
    Well off the bat, I was not impressed at all with the Factory reps or supposidly Engineers, IMO why state "any two can be connected" if they contradict it later?
    Having spent over 60yrs in the Industrial electronics field, both service and design, I am more than a little suspicious of contradictory information, I got the distinct impression they were not high on the corporate engineers list!
    I have seen a Schematic of the input side of a Huanyang VFD, and it shows three identical inputs to a 3phase bridge rectifier, IF there is going to be a difference it is going to be right there, where the inputs to the R,S & T will be connected, once the Bridge connections are passed to the output, there is going to be no difference, so I would definately like to see the where the difference lies.
    If there is different components connected to R, T with respect to S, then it will happen right there. until I see documented evidence to the contrary, I prefer to hold off on comming down on the side of the R,T only issue.
    Also if there is danger of damage etc by not using the R,T connection, it would be highly irresponsible of the Manuf. not to issue a bulletin and include a cautionary statement with the issue of each included operation manual that contradicts it., to say nothing of the initial instructional video declaration to use any two.
    Not to mention all the bad reputation that would ensue due to failed products.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    If you have worked on hundreds of them then give a definitive electronic reason for using this method
    Very interested in reading this reply.



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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Well off the bat, I was not impressed at all with the Factory reps or supposidly Engineers, IMO why state "any two can be connected" if they contradict it later?
    Having spent over 60yrs in the Industrial electronics field, both service and design, I am more than a little suspicious of contradictory information, I got the distinct impression they were not high on the corporate engineers list!
    I have seen a Schematic of the input side of a Huanyang VFD, and it shows three identical inputs to a 3phase bridge rectifier, IF there is going to be a difference it is going to be right there, where the inputs to the R,S & T will be connected, once the Bridge connections are passed to the output, there is going to be no difference, so I would definately like to see the where the difference lies.
    If there is different components connected to R, T with respect to S, then it will happen right there. until I see documented evidence to the contrary, I prefer to hold off on comming down on the side of the R,T only issue.
    Also if there is danger of damage etc by not using the R,T connection, it would be highly irresponsible of the Manuf. not to issue a bulletin and include a cautionary statement with the issue of each included operation manual that contradicts it., to say nothing of the initial instructional video declaration to use any two.
    Not to mention all the bad reputation that would ensue due to failed products.
    Al.
    You are being hypothetical there would not be any damage caused by wiring these VFD Drives anyway you want to, it's just what going to be the most reliable way to wire them

    Unless you have the full blown schematic, you are not going to see much at all, if you where up with VFD Design you would see the reason right away, they have 2 current sensors, one connected to R and T these are connected to the MCU, they work similar to a the lost Phase sensors quality VFD Drives have, but are sensing current, so when the drive is turned on if it does not sense the correct current flow, they Fault, the drive firmware also has a lot to do how the current sensing works as well as there are some hidden Parameters that can be adjusted for all the drives functions, I have still had them fault when connected to R and T, but that has been from of a faulty sensor, once the sensor was replaced they worked as expected

    Below is some interesting snips of VFD Drive wiring connections, I have many more but there is not much point, as it is very clear in most manuals how to connect the input power

    1 From a Hitachi manual, it is obvious that it is wired L1 and L3 this is there way of showing how to do it

    2 And this one from another Chinese VFD manufacture, note how it has been written, then how it should be wired

    I think the language translation is the biggest problem

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw-hitachi-png   Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw-single-phase-terminal-connection-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    One, I am not talking of any other VFD.
    I do not agree it is Hypothetical at all, it is a fact, I don't need a full blown schematic, it is very simple, If the input is to a 3ph rectifier only as my schematic shows, and if all the inputs to the Bridge rectifier are identical, then there can be no difference, simple as that, as I said before, a 3 phase rectifier does not and cannot discriminate.
    I have used VFD's such as Mitsubishi where they have a L.V. transformer connected to S.T. so this is why they mention if 1ph is used to use these two, any other combination simply does not work, simple as that.
    If anyone can show me the technical input differences I am willing to change my opinion, until then I remain unconvinced.
    Al_The_Man.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    One, I am not talking of any other VFD.
    I do not agree it is Hypothetical at all, it is a fact, I don't need a full blown schematic, it is very simple, If the input is to a 3ph rectifier only as my schematic shows, and if all the inputs to the Bridge rectifier are identical, then there can be no difference, simple as that, as I said before, a 3 phase rectifier does not and cannot discriminate.
    I have used VFD's such as Mitsubishi where they have a L.V. transformer connected to S.T. so this is why they mention if 1ph is used to use these two, any other combination simply does not work, simple as that.
    If anyone can show me the technical input differences I am willing to change my opinion, until then I remain unconvinced.
    Al_The_Man.
    I think you have this post messed up Mitsubishi do not use S and T as there connection for Single Phase, they use R and S as the connection for Single Phase, as do most VFD Drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Also if there is danger of damage etc by not using the R,T connection, it would be highly irresponsible of the Manuf. not to issue a bulletin and include a cautionary statement with the issue of each included operation manual that contradicts it., to say nothing of the initial instructional video declaration to use any two.
    Not to mention all the bad reputation that would ensue due to failed products .Al_The_Man.
    This is what is Hypothetical and coming from someone with your experience is ridiculous, why make up stuff that has never been posted

    Again nobody has ever said there was any danger of damage if connected to any two phases as per there manual It is that R and T has been the most reliable connection, as having less start up faults

    How could a 3 phase rectifier discriminate, you say it cannot, will it is easy to see you have not looked at this at all, the sensors that are mounted before the rectifier determine which would be the most reliable Terminals to connect the input power to, may be the snip below of an older board, shows what comes before the Rectifier, will put this to rest, they are slightly different on the newer VFD Boards, but still have these sensors in the same placement

    These Sensors tell the MCU what is happening, and is where most of the Faults come from

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw-huangany-r-s-t-png   Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw-mitsubishi-connection-rand-s-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Does not put it to rest as far as i am concerned,
    The NFB/MCCB/MC have no connection with anything in the VFD apart from monitoring respective current etc , So I erred on the 2 Mitsubishi used I was going form memeory but the point is they could have placed the transformer terminals on any two, they just chose R & T. the rest is the same, a 3 phase rectifier.
    Seems rather pointless taking this any further AFA I am concerned until any definitive reasons are offered.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Looking at the schematic someone made available here, I see a current sense transformer after the bridge. There is no asymmetry in the AC input.



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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by jo_ky View Post
    Looking at the schematic someone made available here, I see a current sense transformer after the bridge. There is no asymmetry in the AC input.
    This is what I pointed to, The input is symmetrical up to the Bridge output.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    This is what I pointed to, The input is symmetrical up to the Bridge output.
    Al.
    No the input is not symmetrical, there are only ( 2 ) current sensors on the input to the Bridge Rectifier you would need ( 3 ) for it to be symmetrical

    Again you keep talking about the Bridge Rectifier when it has really nothing to do with the Bridge Rectifier, the current sensors are what causes the Faults

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    No the input is not symmetrical, there are only ( 2 ) current sensors on the input to the Bridge Rectifier you would need ( 3 ) for it to be symmetrical

    Again you keep talking about the Bridge Rectifier when it has really nothing to do with the Bridge Rectifier, the current sensors are what causes the Faults
    If the manufacturer added a third current sensor, would that eliminate the possibility of the end user picking the wrong 2 of 3 inputs that is the less reliable combination? How much would that cost the manufacturer to add? Penny wise and pound foolish not to? Tarnishing a reputation to save a nickel?



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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Again nobody has ever said there was any danger of damage if connected to any two phases as per there manual It is that R and T has been the most reliable connection, as having less start up faults...
    You said in post #43 that there was danger of damage.
    "...those that have used any 2 as in the instructions have not ended so well..."

    Also in post #33 you explicitly stated "...There are more failures on start up when they are wired R and S, ( Drive Faults ) once you get a Fault on start up, ( Depending on which Fault ) the Drive in most cases needs repair, or sent to the trash..."

    Damage that results in it being "sent to the trash" you said.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw-33-highlight-jpg   Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw-43-highlight-jpg  
    Last edited by joe90023; 03-15-2018 at 05:02 AM.


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    ...It's a Chinese Manual, what do you expect, there is no real guide as to what to use for the Input power connection, you just need to have experience with this Drive to know the drive and what works...
    Wow. This is the most damning condemnation of Haunyang I have ever read. And from Mactec no less!
    If the buyer (typically an inexperienced hobbyist) is lucky enough to run across some anecdotal internet posting then he may know enough to ignore the manual and use R-T only.

    If he trusts the manual he may choose any two terminals, maybe R-S or S-T. I guess he has a 2/3 chance of choosing wrong. Unless he happens to stumble across Mactec to set him straight. Without reading some random forum posting he may trust the manual and need to have the drive repaired or "sent to the trash."

    Huanyang owes mactec a great debt of gratitude for his single minded crusade to save Huanyang from itself.

    Last edited by joe90023; 03-15-2018 at 05:43 AM. Reason: Fix grammar and punctuation.


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    Default Re: Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

    Are these FVD sensitive to the hertz being provided-- i.e., Europe at 50 hertz and US at 60 hertz?



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Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

Electrical question on  Haunyang VFD 2.2kw