Need Help! WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings


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Thread: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

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    Default WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    I am trying to resolve a settings issue with a new WJ200-22sf & 2.2KW air cooled spindle. When I enter the settings directly into the drive, I am only able to run the motor up to 198hz @5.8A. Once I increase over 200hz the motor sound changes and the amps jump to 7.2. Any additional increases trip the motor. When using autotune the motor runs up to 320hz @5A and sounds smooth all the way. After many attempts I was able to download the autotune data to the drive (confirmed by uploading and comparing) but when I run the drive from the panel or the software tab, the over amp problem remains. I have performed numerous factory resets and reentered settings direct & with autotune. I have a dedicated 240V @30A (10g to VFD – 4x,16g shielded to motor) Settings below.

    VFD=WJ200-022sf
    A082-Volts=220 (Have tried 240=no effect on amps)
    B012-Amps=6
    H003-KW Freq=2.2
    H004-Poles=2
    A003=400hz
    A004=400hz
    H001=01 & H002=02 During autotune

    2.2KW GDZ-80x73-2.2
    RPM=24,000
    Hz=400
    V=220
    A=6
    Measured Pin resistance - 1.4ohm – 0 to ground

    145hz=4.6a
    180hz=5.2a
    190hz=5.4a
    198hz=5.8a
    200hz=7.2a
    250hz=8.1a
    290hz=8.6a-trip
    320hz=9.4a-trip

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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmhx2 View Post
    I am trying to resolve a settings issue with a new WJ200-22sf & 2.2KW air cooled spindle. When I enter the settings directly into the drive, I am only able to run the motor up to 198hz @5.8A. Once I increase over 200hz the motor sound changes and the amps jump to 7.2. Any additional increases trip the motor. When using autotune the motor runs up to 320hz @5A and sounds smooth all the way. After many attempts I was able to download the autotune data to the drive (confirmed by uploading and comparing) but when I run the drive from the panel or the software tab, the over amp problem remains. I have performed numerous factory resets and reentered settings direct & with autotune. I have a dedicated 240V @30A (10g to VFD – 4x,16g shielded to motor) Settings below.

    VFD=WJ200-022sf
    A082-Volts=220 (Have tried 240=no effect on amps)
    B012-Amps=6
    H003-KW Freq=2.2
    H004-Poles=2
    A003=400hz
    A004=400hz
    H001=01 & H002=02 During autotune

    2.2KW GDZ-80x73-2.2
    RPM=24,000
    Hz=400
    V=220
    A=6
    Measured Pin resistance - 1.4ohm – 0 to ground

    145hz=4.6a
    180hz=5.2a
    190hz=5.4a
    198hz=5.8a
    200hz=7.2a
    250hz=8.1a
    290hz=8.6a-trip
    320hz=9.4a-trip
    I see a small problem with one Parameter B012=6 the drive will only go a small amount above this number then trip set it to 9 to 9.5 and try again 2.2Kw at 220v is needing up to 10a so 6a is way to low

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    The nameplate on the motor is 6A. It is my understanding B012=nameplate amp.
    The real issue is why during autotune does it run smooth staying under 5A and when run from the drive amps are nearly double for the same frequency (320hz). There must be a setting in software that I missing in the drive.



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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmhx2 View Post
    The nameplate on the motor is 6A. It is my understanding B012=nameplate amp.
    The real issue is why during autotune does it run smooth staying under 5A and when run from the drive amps are nearly double for the same frequency (320hz). There must be a setting in software that I missing in the drive.
    There is no loading when using auto tuning, but yes you could be missing some Parameters, can you post your manual

    Your name plate amps is incorrect they may have etched the 6 when it should of been a 9, 2.2Kw at 220v is 10amps, at 240v it would be 9.1 amps

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    There is no loading when using auto tuning, but yes you could be missing some Parameters, can you post your manual

    Your name plate amps is incorrect they may have etched the 6 when it should of been a 9, 2.2Kw at 220v is 10amps, at 240v it would be 9.1 amps
    Okay, understood. This thing get's smoking hot at +8a. Somewhere around 160F.

    Manual
    http://www.hitachi-america.us/suppor...ion_NT325X.pdf

    Thanks



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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmhx2 View Post
    Okay, understood. This thing get's smoking hot at +8a. Somewhere around 160F.

    Manual
    http://www.hitachi-america.us/suppor...ion_NT325X.pdf

    Thanks
    Yes that temperature is way to hot don't run it and let it get that hot,120 is normally the max, did you change other parameters, if you did not the auto tuning did and you should do a Factory Reset, page 6-14 in your manual, put in your parameter's and don't auto tune

    Did the B012 parameter set with a 6 or a 9 as this is a percentage setting so you need to know what the VFD Drive max amperage is and your setting of 9 amps is a percentage of that, the default is set at 20%

    I found your drive max output amps is 12 so your setting would be 75% for 9 amps

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Yes that temperature is way to hot don't run it and let it get that hot,120 is normally the max, did you change other parameters, if you did not the auto tuning did and you should do a Factory Reset, page 6-14 in your manual, put in your parameter's and don't auto tune

    Did the B012 parameter set with a 6 or a 9 as this is a percentage setting so you need to know what the VFD Drive max amperage is and your setting of 9 amps is a percentage of that, the default is set at 20%

    I found your drive max output amps is 12 so your setting would be 75% for 9 amps
    That is incorrect information, the default is set to max vfd current of 11 or 12 amps not 20%. B012 is a protection seeing not a control setting.

    Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmhx2 View Post
    That is incorrect information, the default is set to max vfd current of 11 or 12 amps not 20%. B012 is a protection seeing not a control setting.

    Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
    That is 100% correct what I said in the post, you have a poor understanding of how this works, of cause it is a protection setting but it has to be set correct to suit what you are running or it would not be protecting anything

    All VFD drives have the same settings amperage settings are to protect the motor

    Another though with your spindle is it may well be 6 amps but it's voltage may have been meant to be 380v with 380v model it would of had 6amp, this company makes a 380v spindle and yours could of been labeled wrong, 2.2Kw @ 220V=10amps 2.2Kw @ 380v=6amps, the winding in the motor would be different

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Yes, I may have a poor understanding of the settings required. That is why I subscribe to the zone so I can learn, troubleshoot, and if I ensure accurate information is recorded then it will be here to help the next person. I have been thinking the same thing concerning the 6amp nameplate, after searching other spindles online. Searched nameplates state both voltages/amps, you state the windings would be different for 380V, Wouldn't they be the same? The motor would pull less current with higher voltage vs low voltage?

    What I meant about the B012 settings in the WJ200 is while the VFD is in CT mode (HD) B012=actual amps, changing the VFD to VT mode (ND) B012 changes to a %. The various Hitachi manuals are not clear about this parameter change.
    And yes I understand it is a protection for the motor but it doesn't limit current, it monitors current and errors out over the setpoint. I have not errored out since setting B012 to 9A.

    The problem I still have is the excessive heat generated when the spindle is run at over 200Hz..(the sound changes-fluctuation and amps jump from 5.2 to 7.2). The attached is the test data I supplied to Rattmmotor
    .WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings-spindle-test-20170115-jpgWJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings-spindle-test-report-161043-2-jpg



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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmhx2 View Post
    Yes, I may have a poor understanding of the settings required. That is why I subscribe to the zone so I can learn, troubleshoot, and if I ensure accurate information is recorded then it will be here to help the next person. I have been thinking the same thing concerning the 6amp nameplate, after searching other spindles online. Searched nameplates state both voltages/amps, you state the windings would be different for 380V, Wouldn't they be the same? The motor would pull less current with higher voltage vs low voltage?

    What I meant about the B012 settings in the WJ200 is while the VFD is in CT mode (HD) B012=actual amps, changing the VFD to VT mode (ND) B012 changes to a %. The various Hitachi manuals are not clear about this parameter change.
    And yes I understand it is a protection for the motor but it doesn't limit current, it monitors current and errors out over the setpoint. I have not errored out since setting B012 to 9A.

    The problem I still have is the excessive heat generated when the spindle is run at over 200Hz..(the sound changes-fluctuation and amps jump from 5.2 to 7.2). The attached is the test data I supplied to Rattmmotor
    .WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings-spindle-test-20170115-jpgWJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings-spindle-test-report-161043-2-jpg
    Try B013=00 the torque is most likely to high making it over heat, there are other parameters that need to be set also which you have not shown in any of your posts

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Try B013=00 the torque is most likely to high making it over heat, there are other parameters that need to be set also which you have not shown in any of your posts
    Something else to check is the wiring, from the spindle to the VFD, this is very important U V W , U=Pin 1 V=Pin 2 W=Pin3 and in your plug W or Pin4 is Ground / Earth, yours needs to be as per Snip if it is not it needs to be changed

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings-gdz-air-cooled-spindle-plug-wiring-jpg  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Something else to check is the wiring, from the spindle to the VFD, this is very important U V W , U=Pin 1 V=Pin 2 W=Pin3 and in your plug W or Pin4 is Ground / Earth, yours needs to be as per Snip if it is not it needs to be changed
    I had checked this previously, but due to your suggestion I checked again. Pulled the plug from the motor to ensure pins are wired per snip and rung them out to the inverter while I was at it .3ohm per pin connection (connections look good).

    You hit on something that has been confusing me with the B013 setting. I have downloaded the Huanyang VFD manual to see if I could correlate the settings to the Hitachi. It appears to me the Huanyang is a variable torque VFD (but not sure). The Hitachi has different modes Heavy duty, LIght duty. HD is what I should need here as LD is more HVAC fans, etc.Inside HD is (A044) Constant torque, Reduced Torque, Free V/F, and sensorless vector. Forums I have read make me believe for milling I should be using CT, I think the Huanyang is VT, Hitachi tech thought I should use sensorless vector. (which I have not been able to work with out error) The reduced torque mode does work and I have been a been able to get to 240Hz vs 200Hz in CT, but this is bench testing so Reduced torque may not fair well actually cutting.

    I feel the sound change at 200Hz is an indicator of something. awry. I have made a video illustrating it. The settings I input are not easily readable but I run it up to 200Hz and show the amps jump from 5.5 to 7.1, that jump is where the excessive heat begins.





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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmhx2 View Post
    I had checked this previously, but due to your suggestion I checked again. Pulled the plug from the motor to ensure pins are wired per snip and rung them out to the inverter while I was at it .3ohm per pin connection (connections look good).

    You hit on something that has been confusing me with the B013 setting. I have downloaded the Huanyang VFD manual to see if I could correlate the settings to the Hitachi. It appears to me the Huanyang is a variable torque VFD (but not sure). The Hitachi has different modes Heavy duty, LIght duty. HD is what I should need here as LD is more HVAC fans, etc.Inside HD is (A044) Constant torque, Reduced Torque, Free V/F, and sensorless vector. Forums I have read make me believe for milling I should be using CT, I think the Huanyang is VT, Hitachi tech thought I should use sensorless vector. (which I have not been able to work with out error) The reduced torque mode does work and I have been a been able to get to 240Hz vs 200Hz in CT, but this is bench testing so Reduced torque may not fair well actually cutting.

    I feel the sound change at 200Hz is an indicator of something. awry. I have made a video illustrating it. The settings I input are not easily readable but I run it up to 200Hz and show the amps jump from 5.5 to 7.1, that jump is where the excessive heat begins.
    Your spindle motor is not rated for constant Torque, so you would be over loading it ( lots of heat ), there are a lot of setting in the Hitachi VFD that can mess up how these spindles run, you can not compare other VFD drives to what you have, as the software works different in every drive, as to how the manufacture interprets each setting, I have worked with a lot of VFD have spec's and parameters for more than 60 VFD Drives and Hitachi is one of the most confusing for the end user, there are a lot of find me if you can understand how I work

    There are many settings they have, that are not for your spindle and are active by Default,it could be just one parameter that is causing your problem

    Carrier Frequency will also cause these problems if set to high, or have Auto carrier boost active

    Slip compensation with auto torque boost also

    I don't think you have these parameters set, try them one at a time

    F001=400

    A061=400
    A062=120

    A154=100

    B040 Torque limit Default is 200% set this to 100% this can be adjusted 200% is way to much for these spindles

    Last edited by mactec54; 01-23-2017 at 10:52 PM.
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Well it has been some time since I started this post and I was at the end of my rope and ready to purchase a new spindle. Then Andy at UGRACNC came to the rescue. That states volumes to their customer service, helping me with a product I did not purchase from them. I will, without a doubt, purchase my next CNC item from them.
    Posting the solution for anyone else having difficulties with this setup.

    Hitachi WJ 200 SETTINGS 2.2kW
    B037 0 UNLOCK PARAMETERS
    A001 2 FREQUENCY SOURCE Set value to 1 To enable potentiometer
    A002 2 RUN COMMAND SOURCE
    A004 400 MAX FREQUENCY
    A003 400 BASE FREQUENCY
    A082 220 AVR VOLTAGE
    A044 3 SETS SENSORLESS VECTOR CONTROL Will not work with 2 motors per drive.
    B012 SET EQUAL TO MOTOR AMPERAGE
    H002 2 MOTOR CONSTANT SELECTION
    H003 2.2 MOTOR CAPACITY
    H004 2 POLES SETTING
    H001 2-> RUN RUN SPINDLE. AUTODETECTION. _ _ _0 should appear when successful.

    B083 INCREASE VALUE IN CASE OF WEIRD SOUND. READ THE MANUAL.

    F001 400 CONTROL SPINDLE SPEED BY SETTING THIS PARAMETER. CAN BE CHANGED WHILE SPINDLE IS ON.



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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Are you going to control this vfd with Mach?



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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Yes, that is the next project when I find some time.
    Found a video that appears simple enough.




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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    I have the same setup as you do. I have watched that video and it does seem simple other than programming the brains. I also have been talking with Andy on the warp9 forum and he is very helpful. We almost have a solution to wire the vfd without modbus.



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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Hey guys, did you manage the actual amperage for this spindle? I mean GDZ-80x73-2.2.

    I've setup it with my Toshiba VFD VFNC3-2022, and it seems to be very weak at 6A. Previously I had HSD 1.8kW spindle, it's rated current was 8.3A.



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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by asylalim View Post
    Hey guys, did you manage the actual amperage for this spindle? I mean GDZ-80x73-2.2.

    I've setup it with my Toshiba VFD VFNC3-2022, and it seems to be very weak at 6A. Previously I had HSD 1.8kW spindle, it's rated current was 8.3A.
    6A would be wimpy if you have a 2.2Kw Spindle they should be around 9.5A

    Not all these Spindles are created equal though

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: WJ200-022sf and 2.2kw Spindle settings

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    6A would be wimpy if you have a 2.2Kw Spindle they should be around 9.5A

    Not all these Spindles are created equal though
    6A is the correct value for the VFD, as stated on the spindle. The VFD has 3 phase output.

    6 x 1.73 x 220 = 2283.6 Watt

    Actually, the correct value would be more like 5.8A



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