Need Help! EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

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Thread: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

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    Default EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    So… this may turn into a lengthy thread. I’m looking for help with a few problems regarding getting an EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe (GA01, from the late 80s or early 90s) up and running with a Sinumerik 810T control. I bought it from a machinist, who purchased it in about 2002 from a machine shop in Beaverton Oregon. It’s had really light, limited use, so I’d really like to salvage it. I saw it running at the seller’s place. He told me that he’d let the battery go dead and it had lost it’s parameters, however, he was still able to demonstrate some working functions including:
    + Spindle turning
    + Jog both axis
    + parts catcher
    + turret switching (with indexing)
    + tailstock
    + the air-operated collet closer was not working , however we switched the air lines around from the tailstock and we were able to make it operate.
    I successfully moved it to my shop, and re-commissioned the control, but have not quite finished the re-commission. if you’d like to see my initial struggles with the commissioning process, go here: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/siemen...ml#post1743358 Now, I can get some things to work, but I’m struggling because (right now) I can’t:
    + get the spindle to turn
    + make the turret index.
    + operate the parts catcher
    + operate the collet closer
    The two initial problems are that I get the following alarms:
    6027 Low pressure central lubrication:
    per page g5 of manual, the lines have been vented and filled. Checked to make sure there's no air in the lines. I think that the pressure switch may be bad. ZVE 20 0007 is the part number in the ENCO manual This error Blocks NC start. Also, the error trips almost right away after clearing the alarm. This may be preventing other stuff from working, because the manual says that 6027 prevents the NC-on from starting. I should be able to just bypass the switch to temporarily fix this one, I just haven’t done it yet.

    6025 Tool-turret index failure
    6024 Tool turret encoder fault. (this happens as soon as the turret is jogged or moved.
    Took off the cover of the turret, and It's interesting that there is a new witness mark for what appears to be the encoder… someone has had issues before and been in there? I DID see this thing work properly at the seller’s, so I suspect a software problem not a hardware problem.

    I’ve done some initial searching on this issue. Someone else solved this by changing the phase of their inputs. www.cnczone.com | 404 - Page Cannot Be Found I tried reversing the phase, to no avail… it made my coolant pump run backwards, and restarted the controller when I pushed buttons. So I think I have the phase right. Plus, it’s hooked up just like it was at the sellers (same rotary phase converter.)

    I’m wondering if these alarms might have to do with the %PCP file, and hoping someone might be able to advise. I was lucky with this lathe to have the original tapes plus a digital backup, and lots of manuals. The PCP file looked like this:

    %PCP
    70704801C400000005192D054D45524B4552202028300B3FA7 52FA0430400000
    1351A200E713FA0E28FF0B52304000001308130A130CA200FA 05304000001301
    130310FF81019168C41BC41CB1680A41281E218080409B01CA 1BCB1BCA1CCB1C
    9C01CD13CC16CD169902C504BA0089028D14BF00CA069D01C2 05A16FC9129E01
    EB1FE803C6989F01A440FA41AF4E8C488D488E488F48FA298A 488B48FA068048
    980E8148990E2D3328040A482180930E28050A482180B30E28 060A482180940E
    28070A482180B40E28080A482180950E28090A482180B50E28 0A0A482180960E
    <<<>>>
    872BFA1130400000135E13601362A02BFA098301972BFA0728 010B63C107972B
    FA021082872BA62BA4539C518452962B862BA452B62BB72B9D 2B10FF8001
    8114840EE019982E802EC7199D2EC106992EA7218420FB0087 21C0069A2EA721
    8520FB008721C703A7079B2E842D9A09852D9E09871E9C2EA7 6FFA054A000B2D
    0A2E4B836500
    M02
    % P C P
    70704802C400000000672D05414C4D2F3220202072004B00E0 00B001C900FB00
    C400A421FA20810083166C0281008416540210824202280021 800A775C021082
    8316821528015C0210820A77420221809A15108280006C0254 025C02C3009167
    8100B616830FC4048514FA09E2008316D483F383E2008416D3 83F483C300E200
    F383F4839016C400A707E900FA0F72070B05A100B6169C059D 059E059F050A05
    420221809C07A407906742020A0621809A16BA008216A516FB 008516A50FBF00
    E100D583C40097074A8373036500
    M02

    When I did the commissioning, I noticed that the PCP file loaded until it got to the first M02 which is a code that tells the controller to stop loading data… I don’t believe that the second block of %PCP was loaded. I don’t know this language at all, is that second block necessary? Does that second block possibly contain setup information about the tool changer? How does the machine know which brand/type of tool changer/encoders the lathe is equipped with? Mines a Sauter, but in the documentation apparently there were other brands besides Sauter available with these. if that second block of PCP code is important, how am I supposed to load it? it seems like loading it as a second file would overwrite the original... is it supposed to be appended to the original?

    In a different thread I found the following about a Fanuc control:
    Also specifies that there may be some parameters that need to be set manually:
    moa, I found a list of dianostic bits for a 342 with an Fanuc O control. I believe they are the same for the 320. Been a while, I'm one of those "Once upon a time " Emco techs.

    You need to check the folowing diagnostic bits...
    D450 - bit 0 for OD clamping , Bit 1 for ID
    D460 - bit 1 for a Sauter turret
    D461 - bit 0 for a parts catcher
    D365 - tool turret postitions - enter the number of stations you have 8 or 12
    I can’t find anything similar in my controller unless it’s supposed to be the “R values”
    On my machine under "Settings Data" the R-Parameters are mostly blank or 0. Anyone know what these are supposed to be? Currently on my machine:
    R 0 through R 499 are all zero, except R 300, which is 301.
    R 500 through R 800 are all blank
    R 801 through R999 are all zero.
    In the manual, there is a cryptic reference to “Emco-specific setting data” and how to load setting bits, but I don’t know what mine are supposed to be. I can’t find anything in the extensive documentation about setting bytes for the toolchanger, though it seems like something you might need to do in the commissioning process??

    Similar Threads:


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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    Updates: Someone has mucked about with this turret before!

    In the process of trying to clear the errors up, I took the turret cover off to better understand if I could reset it manually. There is a procedure for resetting if the turret disk does not properly lock. I tried the process of selecting JOG mode, Pressing AUX-ON and then the 1 and 2 key together on the emco user panel, then releasing the WZW turret key. (For the Fanuc control, you instead press the 100% key). Unfortunately, it seemed to do nothing. I tried several time and then POW POW and smoke!!!! A contactor on the front panel burned up!!!

    very disheartening, but I called up my very smart engineer friend, and we discovered a couple things about this machine:
    + the contactor for turret rotation right has been replaced! They didn't replace it with the exact part, but it's possible the replacement in incorrectly with respect to the phasing. there's a few notes about this inn the electrical documentation... but not WHY they changed things around.
    + the contactor for turret rotation left is the one that burned up: Siemens 3tj5001-0bb4. Maybe it just reached the end of it's functional life? hopefully nothing else was damaged.
    + upon closer inspection, someone has rotated the encoder in the turret and put in new witness marks. not sure what this means yet, but it's all a little suspicious. the work done previously is not well documented in the manual, and the wires were labeled with masking tape... I'm guessing this was not a factory authorized servicing, so there may be some goofyness going on. Did they also monkey with the wiring in the turret itself? it looks like there's some repaired cut wires, and someone wrote down a few notes about which wires go where in the manual... suspicious!

    it's the one on the right that burned up, but you can see the one on the left here too:
    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-dsc05622-jpg
    it's the one on the left that has been replaced already... but they didn't use the original part, it's a different contractor with an auxiliary block.
    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-dsc05624-jpg

    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-dsc05629-jpg

    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-dsc05631-jpg

    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-dsc05635-jpg

    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-dsc05636-jpg

    The current thinking is to replace the contactor that crapped out and see if it happens again... oh and check all the fuses as well. My theory is that the phasing may be incorrect to the turret, but since I saw this machine operation AND saw the turret correctly index when the WZW button was pressed, maybe that's not the right theory to pursue? if you have thoughts on this at all, please weigh in! (especially if you're one of those "once upon a time" EMCO techs of legend!



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    Could really use some help on this, I'm afraid I'm stuck, and don't know what else to try.

    So, I've replaced the contactor and 2 fuses that went out when it burned up, and I'm back where I was. it appears there was no damage done to the lathe when the contactor blew. But, I still can't clear the tool turret error, nor get the spindle to spin.

    I'm thinking that the problems are with the commissioning and that somehow I don't have the values right in the PLC. To that end, I did a fresh re-commissioning procedure, but I'm a little stuck with the %PCP file. I outlined before that second block of text did NOT load originally, so I deleted the M02 stop and reloaded the whole thing as one big block of text... but that did not seem to make any difference. I believe that file is encoded in S5, because obviously it's not plaintext readable, so I don't know what any of it is actually telling the machine. Can anyone somehow translate my %PCP file if I post it? Does anyone know more about the format of the PCP file than I do? I've also found that originally the files start with % P C P (with spaces) but my control won't accept it unless I delete the spaces in between.

    The other thing that's a little suspicious is in the TEA1 file, there's some notes written in the hardcopy printout:
    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-gallerycontent672462888-jpg
    not sure if you can read that or not, but it's notes related to the "Home" position of the turret. not sure if this means the home position of the turret in X-Y or if has to do with the rotational position of the turret, but suspect the latter.
    For reference the printout says
    N2400 =40403
    N2401 =175363

    and then in handwritten notes it says "NEVER change turret home pos. Jog Diagnosis > NC machine data Axial Data 10/1/09 2400 = 38818 2401 =172730
    so, despite it saying "NEVER" change it, someone did in 2009??? I'm confused.



    For reference, I DID do the procedure outlined in the document below to reset the turret, no luck.
    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-turret-reset-jpg



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    for reference here's a picture of the tool turret. You can see the original witness mark and the one that someone clearly made afterwards... why would someone need to do this?

    EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled-dsc05621-jpg



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    So… I think I have solved this problem. But first of all, let me say I couldn’t have done it with out the input from people on this board, and others. For the benefit of anyone else who comes across this thread or problem in the future, I'll outline the solution.

    The part that through me astray is that there is an error in the "810 / 820 Service Course How to reload your NC?" document that is put out by Siemens! If you follow the steps exactly, it has you clear your NC and PLC, load %TEA1 and %TEA2 and then restart. But the next step is where it throws you off: after rebooting the manual has you RE-CLEAR you PLC and NC and then load the %PCP file… but if you do this it does not work… at least on my machine.

    The proper procedure on my machine is to start up into INITIAL CLEAR mode and first clear everything out (PLC initial, NC data, etc.) but don't load default values. After this, you need to restart the control. Once restarted you need to get back into INITIAL CLEAR MODE and load %TEA1 and %TEA2. Once those are reloaded, you need to again restart into INITIAL CLEAR mode, and only then can you load the %PCP file completely. The machine must have TEA1 and TEA2 in order to fully load the %PCP file. My control was not fully loading the second section of the PCP file, and apparently this is where all the data for the tool turret indexing resides! After loading the PCP file, you can format the alarm memory and load the PCA file (alarm file) and any other files you have.

    Phew!!! Once I finally figured that out, my tool turret indexes no problem, and I'm able to jog the axis without holding down the AUX ON button. Even better, I went into the overstore section and manually put in some spindle values (S) and spindle rotation direction (M 03) and the spindle is now working!!! Additionally, I'm not getting the low pressure central lubrication error with the pressure switch bypassed, I need to hook it back up, but perhaps I've solved that error too.

    So I still don’t have everything figured out yet because I can't get the collet closer to manually open or close, and the parts drawer doesn’t operate from the button either, but dang I am getting closer and closer to cutting parts.

    Again, thank to everyone who has been helping me through this, especially "nulizhang" who helped me put 2 and 2 together mentally!



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    Update for posterity: I have now figured out the collet clamping issue! From another forum pcasanova recommended:
    try mda/mdi not sure what machine would call it and enter
    H1 M99
    or
    H2 M99
    then hit cycle start
    h1 is for od clamping
    h2 id
    that should get your m25,m26 working again

    And holy smokes!!! that worked perfectly! I actually did it in the OVERSTORE mode, but now the command works both with M-codes AND also the button for the collet closer works too!!!!

    So I'm suspecting that there must be a similar HXX MXX sequence for the parts tray as well, to get that button working, does anyone happen to know what that code is? The parts tray catcher is M24 to open and M23 to close it. I can pop the parts tray out using M codes in the overstore, but the button on the control for the parts drawer does not operate... much like the collet closer before I did the H1 M99. I suspect the problem is the same though, there's some sort of "enable feature" command that's issued from the control to the button... if anyone has any idea what the comparable command is for the parts drawer, I'd love to hear it.

    again MANY THANKS!!!!



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    Update for anyone following along. After getting this working, I was able to use the lathe to make some pretty killer titanium fountain pens. (you can see them on OCTODYNE)

    But I moved shops, and let the batteries die, or some such thing, so I had to re-recomission the machine. Using my previous notes, it was kind of no big deal!

    I'd sort of stopped using this lathe because it's such a headache to go from bobcam to gcode with all the handwritten lines that need to be added. however, Fusion 360 solves a lot of the issues. however, there's not a perfect post processor for the 810T control, so I've had to modify a generic one. For now, here's where I"m at:


    +I've completely ditched bobcad/cam in favor of Fusion 360 (good riddance!)

    +Using the generic siemens post processor, I've gotten working code to post. But I had to make some post mods:

    +modified it to get the D values to work properly with each T value basically T(#)=D(#)

    +ditched the code for safe home values: the thing I've figured out about my machine is that the 0,0 position is actually inside the spindle of the machine! And the point at which it's calculated from is the FACE of the turret. So you have to set a Tool Number and D offset for each tool. But a "home position" of X0 Z0 would crash the tool into the spindle. For some completely strange reason, setting the home position to x3.8, z7.8 (which is the tool turret fully retracted with offsets removed) does not work. Fusion multiplies these values by 24.5 to convert them to MM, and the X value is then doubled. I couldn't figure out how to make it work, so nuked the whole line.

    +changed the syntax of adding notes so that they're enclosed in parentheses ( )

    +changed the program to the proper %MPF 1001 format

    +changed the speed limitation from "LIMS 5000" to something my lathe recognizes "G92 5000"

    +various other small fixes.



    Still working on a G97/G95 issue. For some reason Fusion always seems to add 97 to my code, but unless I change it toG95, the spindle turns at less than 1RPM.



    Also Still working on the proper way to do tool changes to make sure that the turret does not rotate into the work.

    For external tools, it should be retract X to safe position, retract Z to safe, then tool change.
    For internal (drills, boring, etc) it should be retract Z to safe, then retract x to safe, then tool change
    This is straightforward from a logic perspective, but I have not figured out the code yet.
    I'm not a programmer, so this is all going very slowly for me. I feel the comment above about just hiring someone to write a post, but I don't use the machine enough... frankly, if it were to break, I think it would be a good candidate for a control retrofit, so it's hard to justify throwing money at writing a custom post at something that's so obviously obsolete.



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    I'm still plugging along at this. I may be the last guy left on the planet running one of these machines, but just in case anyone else is reading this, attached is my most current Fusion 360 post processor. I've figured out how to make Fusion post canned cycles for threading and drilling! It's a big deal because I not longer have to hand-insert code. And it keeps my files sizes down too.

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    I just wanted to say thanks for sharing your post processor. I have emco 340 with the 810t control aswell. I have been using a post that I "fixed" few years ago, but never bothered fixing drilling cycle as I did not need it yet. I do now and will have a look at your post which will hopefully save me some time with drilling and threading. I have some posts on Instagram of my machine and control in use if your interested, look for concepts2creations. I will keep on eye on more updates from you.



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    Great! Hope it works for you. The nice thing about it is that this post processor will help you keep your file sizes down. That may not be an issue if you are doing only simple parts, but I'm using my lathe for watches, which require all 8 tools in the turret and multiple operations. I only have like 15,000 characters of memory which get eaten up really quickly if you're doing deep drilling with packing, because theres just a lot of code generated without drilling cycles.

    I'm @wompser on insta or OCTODYNE where you can see more.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    I know this thread is a bit old but I have just purchased 2 Emcoturn 320's and there isn't much out there about these machines. One of the 320's has the Fanuc OT and the other has the Sinumerik 810. The fanuc 320 has a LNS bar feeder hooked up as well.
    I'm going to investigate adding a Titan DNC. I think it will work with the Sinumerik 810. It will substantially increase your usable program size. I just mess with this stuff to learn and as a hobby.





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    Default Re: EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

    Hey Wompser from the past, it's Womper from the present. Ya big dingus, you let the backup battery die because you forgot to remind yourself about it... and now I've had to reload EVERYTHING again. It took a really long time, because you were not very good about taking notes. But I'm going to write out the whole process here for FUTURE WOMPSER, in case he needs to do this again!

    What a headache. In order to reset everything there's a couple of steps you need to take:
    1. turn the machine on, while holding down the Eyeball key, which will take you into the Initial load screen.
    2. From there, you need to CLEAR all the machine data (but don't load defaults.)
    3. Then restart the machine, and it's time to load in the files TEA1 and TEA2.
    4. The good news is that you can use "CNC DATA TRANSFER" app on an android phone to load these files in. If you've forgotten, you'll need to set the settings of the application to Baudrate: 1200, Parity: Even Data bits: 7 Stop Bits: 2 Flow Control Hardware (rts/cts) Wait for XOn (off) Stop with EOF (off) Eof Character (hex) 1A Timeout: 15 seconds
    5. Then connect your phone with the USB C adapter to RS232.
    6. Now it's time to press the DATA IN key on the Emco Control. Because you've now wiped the entire memory of the machine, you need to adjust a few parameters so that the Control is at the right baud rate. It would be really nice if you could go faster than 1200, but you can't. So set both the 5011 and 5013 bits to 11000100.
    7. You also need to set the interface number to 1, this will activate the RS232 port on the front of the machine. Don't use 2(which is the serial port inside the machine), because you messed with that a lot only to figure out that it does not seem to work.
    8. press the softkey "START" and DIO should show up on the control, which means it's ready. Press start to load the TEA1 file in from your phone. Then do it again, and load TEA2.
    9. NOW this is important: it's time to turn the machine off and back on again. You have to do this, then enter the initial setup screen BEFORE you load in the PCP file. THIS IS THE PART YOU FORGOT TO WRITE DOWN PREVIOUSLY!!!!: load PCP, and then load the SECOND PCP file separately, as that seems to be the instructions for the Turret and EMCO-320 specific stuff!!!! (you need to break the original PCP file into TWO files, because it never really worked right as written: % P C P
    10. You also need to load the PCA file the same way, as that gives you English descriptions of the error codes.

    Phew. Maybe now your lathe is working mostly right again? I was still having some problems with the turret giving errors 6025 and 6024, but it's unclear why. This might have been due to the second part of the PCP file not being loaded correctly? You're not sure. You have previously had all kinds of problems trying to get the turret to index correctly, even though if you manually press the contactor buttons down below in the machine cabinet, they spin the motor on the turret both ways, but don't lock it. The problem is PROBABLY the PCP file, you might try reloading it again. But the other solution is to hold down the green AUX ON button while pressing the WZW button, which SHOULD cycle it, and make it lock again. But you've been through this a couple times, and can't quite figure it out: some combination of buttons resets the turret, but it's a little unclear how. remember that you have to have the control set in JOG mode to reset the turret.

    OK, hopefully you've reset everything properly now. A couple of things to remember:
    You can override the axis movements by holding down the AUX ON button while jogging the axis. You have to to X first and then Z, but this enables you to get to the reference point of the lathe.

    There's still some bits you'll need to adjust: Go to "settings" softkey, and then press Axial. it's a little unclear, but seems that Dry Run should be set to F 2000. Minimum work area limt for X and Z should be -99999999 and Maximum work area limits are 99999999. In the Spindle menu, set the limit for the spindle speed to 6000. You don't know if your lathe can go faster than this, but 6000RPMs seems like a really high, scary limit.
    and check higher in this thread about the collet closer:

    H6 M99 does allow me to deactivate the 1x LED light with the button on the user control panel. (this is related to the barfeeder) H7 M99 deactivates the button, and locks the 1x LED light on.
    H1 M99 is the correct combination to get the collet closer to work for a internal 5C collet
    H2 M99 seems to be for an external? clamping maybe... it still allows activation of the collet from the button, but it seems to be in reverse according to the sound.
    H3 M99 disables the collet closer button.




    Then, hopefully, FINALLY, you should have everything you need. But for gods sake, just replace the 3.6v battery every 3-ish years so you don't have to put yourself through this. Yes, each battery is $20, but it's way better than spending 8 hours resetting the lathe. And there's now a spare battery in the toolchest for you to use



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EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled

EMCO-MAIER 320 Lathe with Sinumerik 810T control--issues getting controls enabled