Problem sending data to a 810T/re-commissioning the PLC

[wompser]

Hello forum,

I’m having some difficulty with my EMCO 320 lathe. It has a Siemens Sinumerik 810T control version GA01

The machine is new to me, however I saw it working in manual mode at it’s previous home. It seems to be typical story: the previous owner did not regularly use the machine and it lost its parameters due to a dead battery. I have checked both batteries, and they both are at 3.6v now. Apparently, the controller went down at some point in the distant past (around 2001?) and the previous, previous owner had gone through the re-commissioning process

In other threads, I’ve found the .pdf with instructions for commissioning the lathe. They seem pretty straightforward, however I’m just not able to send any data from my PC to the lathe, and I’m out of ideas what to try next. The things I’ve tried:

+data cable: I’ve built my own serial cable as outlined in the WINPC documentation with the proper DB9 to DB25 connector. I have tried plugging this cable into both the DB25 connector on the front of the control, and in the back on the board. Although I built the cable myself, I have no reason to suspect the cable is at fault.

+PCIN and control settings: I’ve tried various Baud rates and configurations of parity. The commissioning documentation suggests 9600 baud, however in some handwritten notes in the documentation it suggests a baud rate of 1200. I have tried setting the controller and the PC at 1200 baud, but it seems neither produces results.

The computer: I’ve tried a couple of different computers. I’ve tried running PCIN under DOS in a Windows 2000 machine, and running PCIN in DOS loaded from a USB stick. Thinking that perhaps I wasn’t getting to the COM port that way, I broke down and installed DOS 6.22 on a laptop, but I still don’t see any indication that the data is being received at the control. I have not checked the pins of the cable with and oscilloscope to make sure data is going through, but I suspect it is.

+the control: I don’t know the full history of this machine, but know it has been operational. I don’t have any reason to suspect there’s a problem with it, but you never really know with equipment this old. Is there some reason that the data would not save? Is the memory bad for some reason and can’t receive the data? When I’m in the “Data in” mode select option 1 and hit “start” the control says DIO as though it’s trying to receive data. The control does seem to have the alarms loaded, because it gives me a few alarms (not just the numeric codes, but the alarm description in English)

+the transmitted data: I’m trying to load %TEA1, %TEA2 and the other text files. These are the original files, transferred from paper tape, that went with this machine.

The lathe: Although I saw the spindle turn and the axis jog at it’s previous owners, I’m unable to do those things now. When I push the AUX ON button, nothing happens. I’m unable to make the machine move, but am not sure if this is because the PLC is not loaded, or some other reason. Generally, the lathe is in very good shape and has been properly maintained.

My questions:

Is there some other way to test loading data to the machine? This would give me confidence that PCIN and my PC are properly sending data.
Can this data be manually input somehow to the control without using the serial port? Short of buying a tape reader and using the tapes, is there any other way to get this data in?
Is there some reason that the data would not save? Is the memory bad for some reason and can’t receive the data? I’m starting to think that the control is the issue, because I don’t know where else to turn. What part(s) should I consider replacing to test?
Any other ideas?

thanks in advance for any thoughts you might have.

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[wompser]

One other thing. When I run PCIN the status down at the bottom looks like this:

PC SIN PC SIN
RTS STOP CTS DSR STOP DTR
CTS STOP RTS DTR OKAY DSR

When I start sending data from PCIN, the status changes to the below:

PC SIN PC SIN
RTS OKAY CTS DSR STOP DTR
CTS STOP RTS DTR OKAY DSR

it never actually sends anything that I can tell, if I mess with the XO/XOFF settings, I can get it to scroll through all the text in my %TEA1 file like it's trying to send. I think that the problem is that there's no communication between the PC and the control, but how do I figure out where the problem is?

[John_B]

What year is your machine?

My 465 has an 840c control, but it sounds like you're having some of the same issues I had in commissioning my lathe. It's a 1994 so it may be comparable in how the basics work.

I'm not at the shop right now, but I will be later today. I'll try to help you as much as I can.

Make sure you check for door interlocks to get the aux to power up. Also look for e-stops...there may be several. My machine has an e-stop on the barfeeder and the chip conveyor besides the control panel.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[wompser]

What year is your machine?

My 465 has an 840c control, but it sounds like you're having some of the same issues I had in commissioning my lathe. It's a 1994 so it may be comparable in how the basics work.

I'm not at the shop right now, but I will be later today. I'll try to help you as much as I can.

Make sure you check for door interlocks to get the aux to power up. Also look for e-stops...there may be several. My machine has an e-stop on the barfeeder and the chip conveyor besides the control panel.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Thanks for your offer to help! I'd imagine that our two machines are pretty comparable, at least the control should be. I'm not 100% sure of the year of my lathe. it did come with a TON of original documentation that seems to date it to the late 80s, but I don't recall seeing an exact date on the machine anywhere. Late 80's/early 90's for sure though. It's in really good shape too, I'm annoyed by this issue because there should be a ton of life left in this machine, if I can figure out how to get it up and running.

Hopefully others in the future will benefit from this thead, because once I figure it out i'm going to post everything... so far, I haven't found any one document that explains everything, it's scattered in bits and pieces all over the internet.

[wompser]

Update FIXED!!! well, partially anyway.

So, there's a couple of things I figured out:

1. My PC was the problem. After trying a couple of different computers, I was successful with a computer running Windows 2000. This is significant, running MS-DOS on a laptop may not work, and running DOS booted from a thumb drive does not seem to give access to the COM port. With the Windows 2000 machine, I noticed that the display showed

PC SIN PC SIN
RTS STOP CTS DSR OKAY DTR
CTS STOP RTS DTR OKAY DSR

When I unplugged the RS232 cable it instantly went back to:

PC SIN PC SIN
RTS STOP CTS DSR STOP DTR
CTS STOP RTS DTR OKAY DSR

So my initial problem was that I just wasn't connecting. However, there are a couple different things to keep in mind.

2. On my control, it ONLY seems to work at 1200 Baud, so the inputs must be set appropriately.. 96000 Baud as described in the re-commission manual just does not work. also
3. Part of my problem was that the files I have started with % T E A 1 however... they MUST be in the syntax %TEA1 if there's spaces between the letters, it just does not work.
4. Although described in the manual, on my control the RS232 cable can't be plugged into the back panel, it must be plugged into the front and "interface 1" selected.


Woo hoo!!! I'll add some pictures to this thread soon.

Now, my next step is to figure out why I can't seem to get the Servos to come on. I'm slowly getting closer and closer to getting this machine running. LOL, I guess I figured out the above on my own... but I am MOST appreciative to all the wise masters on this forum who are willing to help out others!

[Russell840]

Hi there
I can Download other Machins %PCP Insted of the machin own %PCP and its work as well as! and tranfer very good.

I just attach bouth file.

Thanks so much Sr

[wompser]

Hi there
I can Download other Machins %PCP Insted of the machin own %PCP and its work as well as! and tranfer very good.

I just attach bouth file.

Thanks so much Sr

Sorry, I don't understand.

are you asking if I can post the %PCP file so you can use it on your own machine? I'm pretty sure that would not work, as the parameters are likely specific to the exact machine.

[Russell840]

I have Problem to Download %PCP file to my 810T GA3 system control
in PCIN software .
5010,5012:00000000
5011,5013:11000010 (Bout rate 300)
5016:00101000
same bout rate in System control,Com port,PCIN
I can Download %TEA1 and %TEA2 as well as,But when i want to Download %PCP ,after 1800 Byte,
DIO will disappear and transfer will be stopped.
When I Download the another's Machines %PCP in this system control ,its OK and I can DOWN/UPLOAD %PCP file so good.
so,its make me confuse ,whats going on here?!
Also I attach Both PCP Files
Best Regards

[Russell840]

yeah,sure man . parden me about my preveus uncompleted post.
I know I have to transfer Machens own PLC and I know What is %PCP.

could you please check %PCP file?
Thanks alot

[wompser]

yeah,sure man . parden me about my preveus uncompleted post.
I know I have to transfer Machens own PLC and I know What is %PCP.

could you please check %PCP file?
Thanks alot

I'm afraid i really don't know enough about it to be of much help. looking at the two files, the obvious first difference is

$$$
!830D

I'd delete those two lines.

but I don't know why it's getting 1800 bytes in and then stopping. You could try a higher baud rate, I found that my machine only works reliably at 1200.

I've attached my PCP file if you want to take a look. It's at least confirmed working on my machine, so you could try it on yours and see if you can at least get it to load fully.

[Russell840]

Thanks budy,but unfortunetly its doesnt work still.
do you know any thing about noise and protect transmition procces from noises?
I thing there is a noise function.

[wompser]

Thanks budy,but unfortunetly its doesnt work still.
do you know any thing about noise and protect transmition procces from noises?
I thing there is a noise function.

No, I really don't know anything about the noise protocols. I would think that if it works for the TEA1 and other files, it should work for all files. I guess that you could check your cable to make sure it's a good cable... it should be a standard null modem cable. The pin configuration can be found online or in your documentation. But again, if it works for one file, it should work for all.

Sorry I can't be more help!

[Russell840]

Dear wompser
I test my Transfer with 3 deferent cabl,and my problem doesnt solve.
anyway ,thanks so much ,for your time and your atention.
im stil working on it and i hope to find a solution.
thanks again and best regards

[Russell840]

Is here same experience or same problem?

[bako85]

hi Russell840i have a machine siemens sinumerik 820t and i want to start it but i lost all the parameters, so if you can send me a cut of your parameters i will be very grateful.thank you.

[bako85]

salut Russell840
j'ai une machine siemens sinumerik 820t et je veux le démarrer mais j'ai perdu tous les paramètres, donc si vous pouvez m'envoyer une coupe de vos paramètres je serai très reconnaissant.
Je vous remercie.

[bako85]

hi Russell840
i have a machine siemens sinumerik 820t and i want to start it but i lost all the parameters, so if you can send me a cut of your parameters i will be very grateful.
and I would like to know also what is the procedure to follow, I have a PC, an RS232 cable and I have the data transfer software CIMCO edit. help me please.
thank you.

[Russell840]

Hi there Dear bako85
Ok, no problem. here is my mail address, send me an email.
I'll send you some backups for you. R.dolat840@gmil.com
also, you need PCIN and better to have a Windows XP PC, I have some useful PDF documents, I'll send those too if you need.
Regards
Russell

[wompser]

You can try CNC Data Transfer. It is an app for Android devices. Search Google Play for it.

that is actually quite cool, and would save me the hassle of digging out an ancient laptop with the PCIN software. I'll need to get the appropriate cables to make it work, but thanks for sharing.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...transfer&hl=en

[wompser]

Update for anyone following along. After getting this working, I was able to use the lathe to make some pretty killer titanium fountain pens. (you can see them on OCTODYNE)

But I moved shops, and let the batteries die, or some such thing, so I had to re-recomission the machine. Using my previous notes, it was kind of no big deal!

I'd sort of stopped using this lathe because it's such a headache to go from bobcam to gcode with all the handwritten lines that need to be added. however, Fusion 360 solves a lot of the issues. however, there's not a perfect post processor for the 810T control, so I've had to modify a generic one. For now, here's where I"m at:


+I've completely ditched bobcad/cam in favor of Fusion 360 (good riddance!)

+Using the generic siemens post processor, I've gotten working code to post. But I had to make some post mods:

+modified it to get the D values to work properly with each T value basically T(#)=D(#)

+ditched the code for safe home values: the thing I've figured out about my machine is that the 0,0 position is actually inside the spindle of the machine! And the point at which it's calculated from is the FACE of the turret. So you have to set a Tool Number and D offset for each tool. But a "home position" of X0 Z0 would crash the tool into the spindle. For some completely strange reason, setting the home position to x3.8, z7.8 (which is the tool turret fully retracted with offsets removed) does not work. Fusion multiplies these values by 24.5 to convert them to MM, and the X value is then doubled. I couldn't figure out how to make it work, so nuked the whole line.

+changed the syntax of adding notes so that they're enclosed in parentheses ( )

+changed the program to the proper %MPF 1001 format

+changed the speed limitation from "LIMS 5000" to something my lathe recognizes "G92 5000"

+various other small fixes.



Still working on a G97/G95 issue. For some reason Fusion always seems to add 97 to my code, but unless I change it toG95, the spindle turns at less than 1RPM.



Also Still working on the proper way to do tool changes to make sure that the turret does not rotate into the work.

For external tools, it should be retract X to safe position, retract Z to safe, then tool change.
For internal (drills, boring, etc) it should be retract Z to safe, then retract x to safe, then tool change
This is straightforward from a logic perspective, but I have not figured out the code yet.
I'm not a programmer, so this is all going very slowly for me. I feel the comment above about just hiring someone to write a post, but I don't use the machine enough... frankly, if it were to break, I think it would be a good candidate for a control retrofit, so it's hard to justify throwing money at writing a custom post at something that's so obviously obsolete.