Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

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Thread: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

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    Default Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    Good day,
    I am experiencing jerky servo moves when both X and Y axis are active.
    When milling elipse shape, angles, circles...
    Can someone suggest how to fix this?
    Im attaching the picture of milling elipse shape part and on 2 oposing outside part and 2 oposing inside parts machine produce bad surface fimish because its stopping during movement.

    Thank you, best regards.

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Siemens 810M jerky servo moves-sketch1548578368280-jpg  


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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    What machine model and year ?

    I had a hardinge chnc 1 lathe from 1990 that had jerky motions in a rapid travel
    turned out to be a bad tacometer used for feed back



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    Quote Originally Posted by rcs60 View Post
    What machine model and year ?

    I had a hardinge chnc 1 lathe from 1990 that had jerky motions in a rapid travel
    turned out to be a bad tacometer used for feed back
    Good day,
    Its 1996 Chiron FZ12W High speed
    Sinumerik 810M GA3
    I dont have any problems on joging or when milling straight, only when both X and Y axis are working togeather.
    You can check the attachment to see what I mean.



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    A couple of possibilities come to mind, look for a G61 or a G09 in the G code, this can be cancelled with a G64. This sets exact stop mode. In the post, are you setting something like Arc to Lines, if the filter is set too coarse, you will get this. Is it only this part that you are having problems, or all parts?

    A bad encoder could also cause this or the drives need tuning. Also excessive backlash can cause this.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    Good day, and thank you for your suggestions.
    Im using G64 in my Solidcam postprocessor.
    Today I tried 3 circle profile moves and 1 elipse profile move. Circle profile motion was smooth, but on the elipse profile the machine had jerky motions but only on the 2 oposing corners of elipse like on the attached picture in my first post.
    Im not sure if the code is too much for the controller and if its possible to smooth the elipse to get the fewer code lines or increase buffer memory on the 810m controller?

    Here is the code that im using:
    %MPF1000
    G90 G17 G80 G40 G64
    G90 G54 G0
    G54 B-0.
    D0
    G53 G0 Z0
    M6 T13
    G0 X6. Y-10.
    G0 D13 Z100.
    M3 S50
    M8
    G0 B0.
    (--------------)
    G64

    (10MM - PROFILE)
    G64

    (--------------)
    G64


    G0 X6. Y-10. Z55.
    Z32.
    G1 Z20. F1000.
    X0.
    G2 X0. Y-10. I0. J10.
    G1 X-6.
    G0 Z55.
    G0 B0.
    (--------------)
    G64

    (50MM - PROFILE)
    G64

    (--------------)
    G64


    G0 X6. Y-30. Z55.
    Z22.
    G1 Z10. F1000.
    X0.
    G2 X0. Y-30. I0. J30.
    G1 X-6.
    G0 Z55.
    G0 B0.
    (---------------)
    G64

    (100MM - PROFILE)
    G64

    (---------------)
    G64


    G0 X6. Y-55. Z55.
    Z12.
    G1 Z0. F1000.
    X0.
    G2 X0. Y-55. I0. J55.
    G1 X-6.
    G0 Z55.
    G0 B0.
    (------------------)
    G64

    (ELI50X30 - PROFILE)
    G64

    (------------------)
    G64


    G0 X25.822 Y11.826 Z55.
    Z32.
    G1 Z20. F1000.
    X28.47 Y6.442
    G2 X29.771 Y2.524 U15.189
    X29.776 Y2.499 U5.
    X29.472 Y-3.822 U14.039
    X28.027 Y-7.281 U15.299
    X25.824 Y-10.349 U17.725
    X23.019 Y-12.988 U21.372
    X19.722 Y-15.203 U26.045
    X15.581 Y-17.18 U31.342
    X10.109 Y-18.87 U37.813
    X2.779 Y-19.917 U43.861
    X-7.152 Y-19.443 U46.534
    X-7.162 Y-19.442 U5.
    X-12.836 Y-18.139 U42.22
    X-12.85 Y-18.135 U5.
    X-17.227 Y-16.48 U36.586
    X-17.239 Y-16.474 U5.
    X-20.813 Y-14.547 U30.627
    X-20.824 Y-14.54 U5.
    X-23.963 Y-12.2 U25.379
    X-23.976 Y-12.189 U5.
    X-26.589 Y-9.428 U20.824
    X-26.603 Y-9.411 U5.
    X-28.57 Y-6.233 U17.332
    X-28.582 Y-6.209 U5.
    X-29.816 Y-2.268 U15.074
    X-29.82 Y-2.243 U5.
    X-29.429 Y3.976 U14.041
    X-27.948 Y7.419 U15.376
    X-25.717 Y10.469 U17.855
    X-22.889 Y13.09 U21.551
    X-19.573 Y15.288 U26.26
    X-15.415 Y17.245 U31.572
    X-9.929 Y18.911 U38.023
    X-2.589 Y19.928 U43.994
    X7.337 Y19.414 U46.518
    X7.347 Y19.412 U5.
    X13.01 Y18.085 U42.053
    X13.023 Y18.081 U5.
    X17.385 Y16.407 U36.367
    X17.399 Y16.401 U5.
    X20.955 Y14.457 U30.398
    X20.966 Y14.45 U5.
    X24.085 Y12.092 U25.169
    X24.098 Y12.08 U5.
    X26.687 Y9.302 U20.653
    X26.704 Y9.28 U5.
    X28.273 Y6.828 U17.531
    X28.313 Y6.752 U5.
    G1 X28.443 Y6.495
    G2 X28.47 Y6.442 U5.
    G1 X31.118 Y1.058
    G0 Z55.
    M9
    M5
    D0
    G40
    G53 G1 F10000 Z0
    G53 G1 F10000 X0 Y0
    G53 G1 F8000 B0
    M30



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    The fact that you were able to cut an acceptable circle pretty much eliminates any mechanical or electrical problems so that is a good thing and removes a number of variables.

    That leaves software. It looks like the ellipse is being cut with a series a G2 moves, and it must be stopping at the end of each move. I have not seen a ''U'' in G code before so not sure what that is.

    Look in your CAM program and see if there is a setting that would give you Arc to Line (or something like that) or maybe turn off Use Canned Cycles in the post if either of these are available. I don't know that all CAM software has this available. Doing either of these will create a huge G code file because it converts arcs to very short line segments, but it might solve or at least help the problem. This is the way I normally run my mill.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    The fact that you were able to cut an acceptable circle pretty much eliminates any mechanical or electrical problems so that is a good thing and removes a number of variables.

    That leaves software. It looks like the ellipse is being cut with a series a G2 moves, and it must be stopping at the end of each move. I have not seen a ''U'' in G code before so not sure what that is.

    Look in your CAM program and see if there is a setting that would give you Arc to Line (or something like that) or maybe turn off Use Canned Cycles in the post if either of these are available. I don't know that all CAM software has this available. Doing either of these will create a huge G code file because it converts arcs to very short line segments, but it might solve or at least help the problem. This is the way I normally run my mill.
    I can convert arcs to line but the problem is that it takes much more space and I have limited memory on my CNC. It also doesnt fix the stopping (jerkyng).

    But what I dont understand is that there are jerky movement on only 2/4 of elipse and not on all 4 quarters.

    The postprocesor is modified 4-axis fanuc.



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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    Maybe check the backlash on the Y axis. I'm running out of ideas here.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Maybe check the backlash on the Y axis. I'm running out of ideas here.
    I think its not mechanical problem, looks like electronic or postprocessor :/

    I found some Sinumerik manual on spline interpolation that smoothes the code etc... photo in attachment. But I think todays CAM software do that without special translator.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Siemens 810M jerky servo moves-screenshot_20190130-080129_drive-jpg  


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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    Check your manual for what addresses are used to specify arcs ( G2/G3 ) ... normally I/J/K, (depending on what plane is used (ie G17/18 or 19)) or R radius.

    U is normally old school incremental axis parallel to X
    - can't see anything else to define a radius value .. so..

    Try replacing the U with R and see how it runs



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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    810M doesnt use R. The alarm goes on if I replace U with R.
    They use R for R-parameters.

    U - circle radius, radius (pos sign), chamfer (neg. sign)

    The guy with the same controller said that he did some complex mold milling work with the same controller and didnt have problems.
    His postprocessor make the code with lots of I and J, and his code would be much longer but when I tryed the same code for profile toolpath of elipse made with small lines my machine had even worse jerky movements all around elipse not just on 2 quorders like with my code.




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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    After some testing I figure out that:

    If I post elipse profile toolpath with tool on center without tool compensation I get smooth movement.
    If I post elipse profile toolpath with tool LEFT of profile with tool compensation I get jerky movement.

    %MPF1000
    (No tool diameter offset)
    (Centerline profile)
    G90 G17 G80 G40 G64
    G90 G54 G0
    G54 B-0.
    D0
    G53 G0 Z0
    M6 T13
    G0 X23.983 Y4.235
    G0 D13 Z100.
    M3 S50
    M8
    G0 B0.
    (------------------)
    G64

    (ELI50X30 - PROFILE)
    G64

    (------------------)
    G64


    G0 X23.983 Y4.235 Z55.
    Z32.
    G1 Z20. F1000.
    G2 X24.856 Y1.607 U10.189
    X24.659 Y-2.468 U9.039
    X23.681 Y-4.808 U10.299
    X22.09 Y-7.023 U12.725
    X19.928 Y-9.057 U16.372
    X17.251 Y-10.857 U21.045
    X13.756 Y-12.525 U26.342
    X8.993 Y-13.996 U32.813
    X2.487 Y-14.926 U38.861
    X-6.382 Y-14.503 U41.534
    X-11.384 Y-13.355 U37.22
    X-15.163 Y-11.926 U31.586
    X-18.153 Y-10.313 U25.627
    X-20.674 Y-8.434 U20.379
    X-22.66 Y-6.336 U15.824
    X-24.06 Y-4.075 U12.332
    X-24.884 Y-1.441 U10.074
    X-24.631 Y2.569 U9.041
    X-23.626 Y4.904 U10.376
    X-22.01 Y7.113 U12.855
    X-19.825 Y9.138 U16.551
    X-17.127 Y10.927 U21.26
    X-13.613 Y12.581 U26.572
    X-8.834 Y14.032 U33.023
    X-2.318 Y14.935 U38.994
    X6.546 Y14.477 U41.518
    X11.535 Y13.308 U37.053
    X15.298 Y11.864 U31.367
    X18.27 Y10.239 U25.398
    X20.769 Y8.349 U20.169
    X22.731 Y6.244 U15.653
    X23.853 Y4.492 U12.531
    G1 X23.983 Y4.235
    G0 Z55.
    M9
    M5
    D0
    G40
    G53 G1 F10000 Z0
    G53 G1 F10000 X0 Y0
    G53 G1 F8000 B0
    M30


    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++=

    %MPF1002
    (With tool diameter offset)
    (Tool on LEFT side of profile)
    (Jerky motion on 2 quarters of elipse)
    G90 G17 G80 G40 G64
    G90 G54 G0
    G54 B-0.
    D0
    G53 G0 Z0
    M6 T13
    G0 X28.47 Y6.442
    G0 D13 Z100.
    M3 S50
    M8
    G0 B0.
    (--------------------)
    G64

    (ELI50X30-1 - PROFILE)
    G64

    (--------------------)
    G64


    G0 X28.47 Y6.442 Z55.
    Z32.
    G1 Z20. F1000.
    G2 X29.771 Y2.524 U15.189
    X29.776 Y2.499 U5.
    X29.472 Y-3.822 U14.039
    X28.027 Y-7.281 U15.299
    X25.824 Y-10.349 U17.725
    X23.019 Y-12.988 U21.372
    X19.722 Y-15.203 U26.045
    X15.581 Y-17.18 U31.342
    X10.109 Y-18.87 U37.813
    X2.779 Y-19.917 U43.861
    X-7.152 Y-19.443 U46.534
    G1 X-7.162 Y-19.442
    G2 X-12.836 Y-18.139 U42.22
    X-12.85 Y-18.135 U5.
    X-17.227 Y-16.48 U36.586
    X-17.239 Y-16.474 U5.
    X-20.813 Y-14.547 U30.627
    X-20.824 Y-14.54 U5.
    X-23.963 Y-12.2 U25.379
    X-23.976 Y-12.189 U5.
    X-26.589 Y-9.428 U20.824
    X-26.603 Y-9.411 U5.
    X-28.57 Y-6.233 U17.332
    X-28.582 Y-6.209 U5.
    X-29.816 Y-2.268 U15.074
    X-29.82 Y-2.243 U5.
    X-29.429 Y3.976 U14.041
    X-27.948 Y7.419 U15.376
    X-25.717 Y10.469 U17.855
    X-22.889 Y13.09 U21.551
    X-19.573 Y15.288 U26.26
    X-15.415 Y17.245 U31.572
    X-9.929 Y18.911 U38.023
    X-2.589 Y19.928 U43.994
    X7.337 Y19.414 U46.518
    X7.347 Y19.412 U5.
    X13.01 Y18.085 U42.053
    X13.023 Y18.081 U5.
    X17.385 Y16.407 U36.367
    X17.399 Y16.401 U5.
    X20.955 Y14.457 U30.398
    X20.966 Y14.45 U5.
    X24.085 Y12.092 U25.169
    X24.098 Y12.08 U5.
    X26.687 Y9.302 U20.653
    X26.704 Y9.28 U5.
    X28.273 Y6.828 U17.531
    X28.313 Y6.752 U5.
    G1 X28.443 Y6.495
    G2 X28.47 Y6.442 U5.
    G0 Z55.
    M9
    M5
    D0
    G40
    G53 G1 F10000 Z0
    G53 G1 F10000 X0 Y0
    G53 G1 F8000 B0
    M30



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    Default Re: Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

    This program works (Tested just on dry) .
    I think there is some problem with postprocessor when I dont use G41 code, and using instead software cutter diameter compensation.
    Does anybody have a solution to this.
    I modified Fanuc postprocessor and maybe screwup something in the process.
    Any help is welcome.

    %MPF2223
    (G41 tool compensation)
    G90 G17 G80 G40 G64
    G90 G54 G0
    G54 B-0.
    D0
    G53 G0 Z0
    M6 T13
    G0 X28.471 Y6.443
    G0 D13 Z100.
    M3 S50
    M8
    G0 B0.
    (----------------------------)
    G64

    (ELI50X30 TOOL COMP - PROFILE)
    G64

    (----------------------------)
    G64


    G0 X28.471 Y6.443 Z55.
    Z32.
    G1 Z20. F1000.
    G41 D13 G1 X23.983 Y4.235
    G2 X24.856 Y1.607 U10.189
    X24.659 Y-2.468 U9.039
    X23.681 Y-4.808 U10.299
    X22.09 Y-7.023 U12.725
    X19.928 Y-9.057 U16.372
    X17.251 Y-10.857 U21.045
    X13.756 Y-12.525 U26.342
    X8.993 Y-13.996 U32.813
    X2.487 Y-14.926 U38.861
    X-6.382 Y-14.503 U41.534
    X-11.384 Y-13.355 U37.22
    X-15.163 Y-11.926 U31.586
    X-18.153 Y-10.313 U25.627
    X-20.674 Y-8.434 U20.379
    X-22.66 Y-6.336 U15.824
    X-24.06 Y-4.075 U12.332
    X-24.884 Y-1.441 U10.074
    X-24.631 Y2.569 U9.041
    X-23.626 Y4.904 U10.376
    X-22.01 Y7.113 U12.855
    X-19.825 Y9.138 U16.551
    X-17.127 Y10.927 U21.26
    X-13.613 Y12.581 U26.572
    X-8.834 Y14.032 U33.023
    X-2.318 Y14.935 U38.994
    X6.546 Y14.477 U41.518
    X11.535 Y13.308 U37.053
    X15.298 Y11.864 U31.367
    X18.27 Y10.239 U25.398
    X20.769 Y8.349 U20.169
    X22.731 Y6.244 U15.653
    X23.853 Y4.492 U12.531
    G1 X23.983 Y4.235
    G40 D13 G1 X28.445 Y6.496
    G0 Z55.
    M9
    M5
    D0
    G40
    G53 G1 F10000 Z0
    G53 G1 F10000 X-400 Y0
    M30



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Siemens 810M jerky servo moves

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