Stinky Coolant


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    Default Stinky Coolant

    As former mold maker who is now consulting for mold shops, I’m finding these shops stink. Seems the stench comes from bacteria laced coolants. In the past, fluids were dumped down sewers, but today that’s expensive and the towns are now checking their sewers. Anybody know of and easy way to test and treat the coolant for bacteria?

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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Hi.......way back in the '50s we used Draino.....a drain disinfectant that mixes with water to control the bacteria in the water soluble oil based coolant.

    We cleaned out the sump of a machine regularly at 3 month intervals but the stink still kept coming back, so the drain cleaner trick worked.......it smells a bit like Carbolic soap and is not too bad on the nose.

    If the coolant is not replaced regularly you can develop dermatitis and that does not go away.

    The mix was 500mls or a half pint can of Draino.... approx...... to 3 gallons of coolant.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Thanks handlewanker, I met with the shop owners and they felt the Drano idea would work but 2 of them did not like to have Drano (lye) handy to their employees (no maintainance people control). They felt it was a safety issue if the label got removed or not readable. Maybe there is another detection method before it starts smelling??



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    I run aquarium air bubblers in my coolant all the time and the stinky coolant problem went away.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Hi....that's strange.......I would have thought the oxygenation would favour the bacteria growth.....we tried everything, but the bacteria once present are virtually impossible to eliminate without a chemical solution.

    I suppose that if you went to a heat solution and heated the coolant in a vat it would kill the bacteria, but they're still in the machine sump etc.

    BTW....the Drano stuff came in a Coke size tin for domestic use and one tin can treat a whole machine load of coolant with some left over for top up.

    Someone said use vinegar as the Romans used to add it to their leather water bottles to keep their water free from going bad, and that was 2,000 years ago......that's the same as pickling something to keep it bacteria free.

    The smell might be too much to bare, so adding methylated spirits or Iso Propyl Alcohol might do the trick too.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    I still changed the stinky coolant and thoroughly cleaned the machines. The bubblers went in with the new coolant.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hi....that's strange.......I would have thought the oxygenation would favour the bacteria growth.....we tried everything, but the bacteria once present are virtually impossible to eliminate without a chemical solution.

    I suppose that if you went to a heat solution and heated the coolant in a vat it would kill the bacteria, but they're still in the machine sump etc.

    BTW....the Drano stuff came in a Coke size tin for domestic use and one tin can treat a whole machine load of coolant with some left over for top up.

    Someone said use vinegar as the Romans used to add it to their leather water bottles to keep their water free from going bad, and that was 2,000 years ago......that's the same as pickling something to keep it bacteria free.

    The smell might be too much to bare, so adding methylated spirits or Iso Propyl Alcohol might do the trick too.
    Ian.
    Currently, we have an employee that went to the doctor because of a rash on one hand. I believe it is dermititis. Rather than trying different approaches, is there a way to be more proactive (testing) so I don't have to wait for cleaning machines from top to bottom and employee issues?



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Hi....... it also comes down to personal hygiene protection at the start of a shift........ALWAYS use a barrier cream on your hands BEFORE doing anything involving cutting fluids or plain oil......ESPECIALLY KEROSENE.......something that a lot of people use to clean their hands.....BTDT,.......lucky to not get an infection.

    Once you get dermatitis or an allergic reaction to workplace oils etc, you will have it for life........seen that in many cases.

    One thing most people don't realise is that all oils of any description will give off vapour when they are heated and if you breathe this in you are counting down to a coffin overcoat......at very least a lung infection can leave you with a premature need for an oxy bottle and a wheel chair.

    The bacteria that get in and live on the oils in your machine are impossible to get rid of as they are Nature's biggest survivors and will eventually be the main life form when all other life forms are extinct.

    I will probably try and get a synthetic coolant, the type that is pale green and costs about US$25 a litre, dilution rate with water about 1:20 so should last a long time........it gets thrown out when it's contaminated with oil from the slideways etc.

    BTW....we tried steam cleaning once a month.....took a lot of paint off too, but the little buggers were still there a couple of weeks later.

    I've used a liquid washing detergent occasionally to keep my lathe clean, and don't have a problem, but as I don't use flood coolant it's arbitrary as to the outcome.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    I use anti freeze at a high concentration, which is kept refrigerated. 2 years and still just smells of antifreeze. Some people complain it stains pipes but mine are still spotless.



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Hmmmm.....I wonder with all these "additives" if the coolant actually still works for the reason it's used.....apart from cooling the tool, but lubing it as it cuts.

    No doubt the experts who formulate modern cutting fluids will be throwing up their hands in despair......but as we're talking about a cutting fluid mix derived from soluble oils and water that was invented before the beginning of time, anything that's added to it is going to alter the original recipe.

    That leads me on to radiator inhibitors....anti freeze etc...... as they alter the PH balance and prevent corrosion........I wonder if they also affect the cutting fluid performance......the vapour will have to be well vented....you don't want to mess with glycol in the air you breathe.
    Ian.



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hmmmm.....I wonder with all these "additives" if the coolant actually still works for the reason it's used.....apart from cooling the tool, but lubing it as it cuts.

    No doubt the experts who formulate modern cutting fluids will be throwing up their hands in despair......but as we're talking about a cutting fluid mix derived from soluble oils and water that was invented before the beginning of time, anything that's added to it is going to alter the original recipe.

    That leads me on to radiator inhibitors....anti freeze etc...... as they alter the PH balance and prevent corrosion........I wonder if they also affect the cutting fluid performance......the vapour will have to be well vented....you don't want to mess with glycol in the air you breathe.
    Ian.
    I must have been half asleep when I commented on this this morning, I was referring to cooling water not cutting fluid. Lol I agree spraying antifreeze not a good idea.



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by waynec44 View Post
    Thanks handlewanker, I met with the shop owners and they felt the Drano idea would work but 2 of them did not like to have Drano (lye) handy to their employees (no maintainance people control). They felt it was a safety issue if the label got removed or not readable. Maybe there is another detection method before it starts smelling??
    You can't use Drano in a machine you will destroy the machine, if you use a good quality coolant, you don't have a coolant stink with most modern cutting fluids, just checking the PH will tell you what's going on, look up the spec's of the coolant they are using it will have what the PH should be

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Hi Mac.....back in the 50's and 60's we DID use Drano or it's trade equivalent to kill the bacteria.....it was sold specifically for cleaning the muck you get from a smelly drain and also it cleaned the machine sump.......it's mainly a bacteria thing that's causing the problem.

    While I quite agree that modern coolants like the pale green synthetic stuff that cost a bit and do work well and seem to not have the bacteria problem of the soluble oil coolant, at the same time if the machine is not cleaned out thoroughly you will get some stink as the residue contaminates the new stuff.

    BTW.....no machine we used Drano on ever got damaged.....whether or not it was a good idea I have no clue, but it did cure the problem without noticeable side effects.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon.N.CNC View Post
    I must have been half asleep when I commented on this this morning, I was referring to cooling water not cutting fluid. Lol I agree spraying antifreeze not a good idea.
    Hi......yes. it did seem a bit drastic......the antifreeze might strip the paint off too, apart from leaching the lubricants out of the slideways.

    It most probably would be necessary....in the spindle cooling water...... if the climate was cold enough for snow and the workshop wasn't heated overnight.....we don't have that problem in Melbourne....TTL

    In one workshop back in UK we once had to do a morning chore with a blowlamp to thaw out the toilet cistern before having a crap....it was in an outside washroom and regularly froze up overnight in Winter......one crapper for 50 blokes......after that....by "royal" decree.... we made sure the cistern was drained down at the end of the day.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hi Mac.....back in the 50's and 60's we DID use Drano or it's trade equivalent to kill the bacteria.....it was sold specifically for cleaning the muck you get from a smelly drain and also it cleaned the machine sump.......it's mainly a bacteria thing that's causing the problem.

    While I quite agree that modern coolants like the pale green synthetic stuff that cost a bit and do work well and seem to not have the bacteria problem of the soluble oil coolant, at the same time if the machine is not cleaned out thoroughly you will get some stink as the residue contaminates the new stuff.

    BTW.....no machine we used Drano on ever got damaged.....whether or not it was a good idea I have no clue, but it did cure the problem without noticeable side effects.
    Ian.
    The Drano in the USA is made up of Hydrochloric Acid, you don't want this stuff anywhere near your machine, this is used to strip anodizing from aluminum

    The pale green synthetic coolant your are talking about, you don't want to go there I used to sell it, it's a good cutting fluid, it's main content is glycol, your machine and tooling, will rust really bad if you use this product, no matter how much of there antirust you add, it still will rust your machine and tooling

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Yikes!!!.....hydro chloric bad stuff.......definitely don't want to mess with that.

    The brand name Drano I mentioned is probably the stuff I heard of on here somewhere.......the brand name back in South Africa escapes me, but it's sold in shops in a brown bottle to clean out drains and goes milky when added to water....also has a carbolic smell to it.

    About the pale green coolant.........if it' rusts the machine parts like you say, that's bad news..... strange, because we used it, or something like it on our grinders and also a mill without problems.........I have a link on my favourites list for some stuff that is sold in Canada and costs about US$25 a litre.....I'll have to look up our local lube dealer to see if they sell something like it too.

    It's academic really, as I won't be using flood cooling or have a sump on my mill, so no mass storage to worry about.......I'll be using something that, if I can find it, will be stored in a container for mist cooling and will probably, after wipe down, evaporate from the machine surfaces over time.

    Here's a pic of the stuff sold in Canada called GREENCUT MISTING/CUTTING FLUID.
    Ian.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Stinky Coolant-greencut-cutout-170x238-new-png  


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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Yikes!!!.....hydro chloric bad stuff.......definitely don't want to mess with that.

    The brand name Drano I mentioned is probably the stuff I heard of on here somewhere.......the brand name back in South Africa escapes me, but it's sold in shops in a brown bottle to clean out drains and goes milky when added to water....also has a carbolic smell to it.

    About the pale green coolant.........if it' rusts the machine parts like you say, that's bad news..... strange, because we used it, or something like it on our grinders and also a mill without problems.........I have a link on my favourites list for some stuff that is sold in Canada and costs about US$25 a litre.....I'll have to look up our local lube dealer to see if they sell something like it too.

    It's academic really, as I won't be using flood cooling or have a sump on my mill, so no mass storage to worry about.......I'll be using something that, if I can find it, will be stored in a container for mist cooling and will probably, after wipe down, evaporate from the machine surfaces over time.

    Here's a pic of the stuff sold in Canada called GREENCUT MISTING/CUTTING FLUID.
    Ian.
    That's the stuff I was selling, as a cutting fluid it works well, but is not good for your machine or your tooling, I ran it for 2 years myself, just got sick of there the BS from the manufacture as to why everything would get nasty rust on it, they said that this was the cutting fluid doing it's job, and was cleaning the pores in the metal, total BS

    I can assure you the stuff you where using was not this Green Cut, this has not been around that long

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Hi Mac.....thanks for the heads up on that stuff.....one thing's for sure, we didn't have a rust problem or any problem related......I'm going to check with our local supplier to see what they have......at any rate I'll only need a small amount as I'll be using it in a mist cooling application.....a litre at 20:1 dilution rate would last me forever.

    Some time ago I did some repair work for a guy who had an iron mongery business and one thing he had was a small centrifuge......he stocked them and sold them all over the World for small time milk processing in Africa and India etc.

    In the course of discussing it's merits from separating cream from milk etc, he also said you can emulsify oil and water to make a mix for some purpose........now that is quite interesting as oil and water is a coolant and it doesn't need something to chemically break down the oil to make it emulsify......I'll have to investigate that process as it was 30 years ago I last came across it.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hi Mac.....thanks for the heads up on that stuff.....one thing's for sure, we didn't have a rust problem or any problem related......I'm going to check with our local supplier to see what they have......at any rate I'll only need a small amount as I'll be using it in a mist cooling application.....a litre at 20:1 dilution rate would last me forever.

    Some time ago I did some repair work for a guy who had an iron mongery business and one thing he had was a small centrifuge......he stocked them and sold them all over the World for small time milk processing in Africa and India etc.

    In the course of discussing it's merits from separating cream from milk etc, he also said you can emulsify oil and water to make a mix for some purpose........now that is quite interesting as oil and water is a coolant and it doesn't need something to chemically break down the oil to make it emulsify......I'll have to investigate that process as it was 30 years ago I last came across it.
    Ian.
    You didn't see a Rust problem because they weren't using Green Cut, I was the second distributor in the USA, so when you saw the cutting fluid in use, Green Cut was not even in Australia and may not even be there now, in great use, there was a company in NZ that was using it for there CNC Plasma cutting quench around 5 years ago, CNC Plasma cutting is where it has been mostly used

    You want the least amount of oil, they don't use regular oil in making cutting fluid, it's the oil that attracts and grows the bacteria, 30 years ago why are you even talking about it, cutting fluid has changed so much 30 years, you need to catch up

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Stinky Coolant

    Hi...the green coolant I'm familiar with was used in the 60's when I was working in South Africa, mostly on the grinders, but I also came across it in UK in the mid 70's, so it's around in different forms I think.

    I mentioned the centrifuge as the guy who had them stated that ANY oil can be emulsifi3ed with water without chemical additives.......mineral oils interest me specifically as they're not of vegetable origin so bacteria probably wouldn't live on them.....they don't live in my car's engine oil..... although mineral oils are derived from plant juice from ancient forests millions of years ago, so the mineral title is a mystery to me.

    It's only academic really as I won't be making any home brew just because........a litre or two of the real stuff mixed with water would last me for years.
    Ian.



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