eBay 3 axis axis servo motor/driver package questions

[Mwmx54]

I’m sure this has been asked before, otherwise they wouldn’t be scattered all over eBay, somebodies gotta be buying them. But I haven’t been able to find a single review from anyone who has used these. A little back story about me though, I have a zx45 from Bolton tools that I’ve been using manual for several years now, and I want to convert to cnc, I’ve read several of the build threads, and have a very general idea of what to do, but I am a complete newbie in this area, aside from messing with 3d printing and fusion 360, I know very little else.
So my question is, would this kit be worth while, or are their better options out there? Here is the link to eBay. I like that it comes as a kit, meaning it is hopefully most of what I will need, and the components will work together. But again, I don’t know much about this. Yet.

https://ebay.us/irucNr

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[Mwmx54]

Well I have grown a lot these past few days, read everything I can, I believe just basic steppers would work fine, but if I’m gonna do it, I want to do it right, so I’m leaning towards closed loop Nema34 steppers. The question is what software(I’ll be learning from scratch) I think I’ll go for unccnc or Mach4, or Linux, haha, guess it just depends, either way there will be a steep learning curve. Any recommendations for which motion controller and bob?

[ninefinger]

Let me ask you: Do you think that $1100 spent on an ebay package is a bargain versus $1575 from a company that does this as its main business and has been around a long time (i.e. DMM-tech https://store.dmm-tech.com/products/...c-servo-system ) and can and does provide support? (see other builds on here that have used these DMM systems)
I'm not going to get into the whole debate of what size motors is right and simply spout my opinion on a few other points.
Just think about finding compatible parts in the future - where are you going to find them - ebay again? good luck with that. So yeah, people can buy it and it can work, but if this is a longer term investment then ebay shouldn't be the source for this sort of part. Think about down time - how long are you going to be willing to wait to get your machine back up and running in the event something breaks (can break due to outside influence too - i.e. you drop something on a critical bit or send it past a limit by accident).
Also - something not always considered (just like with 3D printers) is safety. And there are a couple of areas of safety that should be thought of. First is electrical - ebay one is taking in high voltage AC (220V) - I see no safety certifications listed, not even CE which is completely self declared on most items like this (no 3rd party auditing to make sure you're doing things right). Are you willing to turn your machine into a giant electrocution hazard? (The system I linked to above uses a reputable name brand PS to convert AC to 48DC - a relatively safe voltage).
Next is the drives themselves - if they run away that's alot of power - people forget how much 750W is (basically 1 HP) - that can do a lot of damage, to your machine or you. How much do you trust these drives to behave properly?
But at the end of the day its your choice.
That's my opinion, worth what you paid for it

Mike

[ninefinger]

I can't comment on unccnc as I know nothing about it, but I can say that LinuxCNC along with an Ethernet Mesa interface card (in my case the 7i76e for "steppers") has been great - and the latest release of LinuxCNC (with the operating system) is great - I was able to install on a brand new SSD in less than 20 minutes. The Mesa card will give you the ability to control 4 axes, a spindle and way more IO than a basic homebrew cnc conversion will need (home and limit switches, probe input, tool touch off, coolant or mist relay control, not sure what else would really be needed but if you do there are even more capable cards from Mesa.
Also the initial setup of a Mesa card has been greatly improved as well in LinuxCNC with the included pncconf utility, Still need to manually edit files to add some stuff (like a USB pendant), but I think that's the case for most of these systems as they can't support out of the box every possible thing that can be plugged into them.
And the LinuxCNC forum is full of active users willing to help.
Mike

[ger21]

but if I’m gonna do it, I want to do it right, so I’m leaning towards closed loop Nema34 steppers

The only benefit to closed loop steppers is that they can stop your system when they stall. They don't have any more power than open loop steppers.

[Mwmx54]

TLDR: I ordered a bunch of stuff, including an ESS and c11g, What recommendation for software do you have for a complete newcomer to cnc? Mach3 or mach4, and it looks like I may need additional software like wizards, and add ons...? Any recommendations for those? At some point I would like to add a hand held pendant?(I believe they’re called) of sorts.
I missed your replies before ordering or I would have given more thought to linuxcnc, I went the Mach route as I figured their might be more info in terms of forums and online groups.
I ended up getting these from stepper online, they’re relatively cheap, but still twice as expensive as their cheapest versions(possibly a waste of money, we will find out). https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/tp...h=1-cl86t-p120
I also ordered some eBay special ballscrews, 2005 series for all 3 axis, i can upgrade in the future if I need to. And keep in mind, this a Chinese mill, no need to run top of the line parts for a conversion built by me. I also ordered an Ethernet smoothstepper and c11g boards. I almost went the Mesa 7i76, but ultimately decided on the warp9 products due to them being more popular and thinking it would be easier for me to get help with if needed. I ordered limit switches and an e-stop as well as some various shielded cables and a kl7220 72vdc toroidal power supply and a 5v switch mode supply which I believe I need for the ESS.
I will be running all 3 axis direct drive to the ballscrews, with a belt drive to add a handwheel on the Y and an extra long ball screw on the x to add a handwheel on the opposite side of the table as the stepper motor.
Now my question remains if I should go with Mach3 or Mach 4? It seems the general consensus is that they’re both not very fine tuned, but Mach3 no longer has support, but does have more in terms of “add ons”? I have 2 PCs to choose from, one with windows 7 and one with vista, i also have a pci card and the drivers to add a parallel port if needed.
I found a cad file for a very similar mill that I have been reworking with my design. here is a screenshot of where I am at with it. I already made and installed the column spacer that raises the column an inch and moves it back 1.35" it also allows me to use 3 bolts on each side of the column to bolt it down. the very front bolts only go through the spacer.

[Mwmx54]

I should also ask if I am missing anything? or to word that better, the holiday season is coming up, and COVID could screw up shipping and warehouses delaying shipments in the near future, so any recommendations of what I may be missing and should get ordered now that I may need for the build.

[Mwmx54]

Parts are trickling in, I planned on getting 3 more ball nuts so I could double them up, but these seem quite tight as is, I may run with it and see how it goes, they have absolutely zero slop, but an indicator will be the only real way to check. I also 3-d printed a y axis mount and the timing belt gears for the handwheel I want to add.

[Mwmx54]

I think I have everything done to put the x axis together, I had to make the motor mounts out of steel because my shipment of 3/4” aluminum is delayed, I also had to 3d print a nema34 motor to test fit stuff because my shipment with the motors and drivers is also delayed. I had to remove 2mm from the ball it mount, and put new countersunk bolt holes to mount it, and I removed 3.8MM from the bottom of the ballscrews bearing blocks, doing this I can retain the same bolt center as the original and have plenty of clearance without having to mill the bottom of the table. For the y axis I had to cut out an offset hole lower from the original in order to drop the motor and lead screw down about 10mm from original otherwise the saddle would hit the motor. I think it’s coming together pretty well. Here is some pics.

[asuratman]

but Mach3 no longer has support

I have cnc router with mach3 for long time, I have no problem with no support. I found a lot of mach3 on u-tube. I found mach3 and electronics/accessories were a lot cheaper and easy to find and easy to install. I don't think mach3 will die. I use mach3 for lathe also no problem and cheap with handwheel/mpg for setting up easier. For cad/cam, I use fusion 360.

[Mwmx54]

Got some more stuff today, my aluminum showed up, now that I’ve already made two of the mounts out of steel, and my smoothstepper and power supplies, it looks like both the ESS and breakout board run on 5vdc, I’ll have to double check when I cross that bridge, but I’m hoping to be able to use the same little power supply for both, and the 72vdc power supply will power the driver/motors. It says to fuse the input, I assumed my breaker panel would do that, but maybe that’s what they’re talking about? I would like to run it on 110, if possible, so it would be powered by a 20a breaker... also, I will have to brush up on my dc electrical knowledge, that is not very extensive, to understand how I take the 72vdc, and wire it to my drivers, it looks like I have two sets of rectifiers?(things with capacitors, that each have two sets of outpouts, for a total of 4 72vdc outputs, I assume I use one of the 4 for each of my 3 drivers? And have one spare. Then each one has a common(C)? That outputs 36vdc, do I use these for something? I have a lot of questions now, but when the time comes to assemble, I will do my research and make sure it is correct.

[Mwmx54]

I have cnc router with mach3 for long time, I have no problem with no support. I found a lot of mach3 on u-tube. I found mach3 and electronics/accessories were a lot cheaper and easy to find and easy to install. I don't think mach3 will die. I use mach3 for lathe also no problem and cheap with handwheel/mpg for setting up easier. For cad/cam, I use fusion 360.

That is exactly why I am really considering Mach3, it seems there is more available for it, especially in the hobby/light commercial world that I am in.

[Mwmx54]

This is probably a silly question, but my research isn’t turning up a reliable answer, I’m trying to find a suitable fuse block for the drivers, and some/most offer one input, and 4 to 6 fused outputs, can I use this, and pull the 72v from one leg of the psu, into the fuse block, then run each stepper from each individual fused terminal? I assumed I would need each stepper pulling power from its own leg from the psu, but from what I have gathered reading others builds, it looks like people are just powering a fuse block, then running their axis off the same input. Hope that makes sense. If someone has a recommendation for a fuse block, I am all ears. The marine ones that are all over Amazon look okay, but one input...
Also, I finished my y axis ball nut adapter, both x and y axis are ready to assemble, if the stepper online shipment ever arrives. I have all my z axis measurements as well, just need to make the motor and ball nut mounts.

[Mwmx54]

Well this is the fuse block, the style anyways, that I was talking about, but it shares the same DC input/output, I just can’t figure out if or why I would need them all to be separate.

[ninefinger]

Your power supply will has 2 outputs at ~72VDC each, look at the wiring diagram that came with it. Each output has a terminal block for convenience so you can easily connect direct from those terminals to your stepper drivers, and put a fuse inline. Also - those automotive fuses are not rated for 70VDC, if you do blow one up it may cause a different fault (fire!) that is as bad or worse than what you were trying to prevent in the first place. Use a simple 1/4" ACG fuse holders (available as inline, panel mount or stand alone bolt down) and then you can select the appropriate fuse for the drives
Also, why do you need handwheels on a cnc machine - especially handwheels that won't have graduations for travel?

[Mwmx54]

Your power supply will has 2 outputs at ~72VDC each, look at the wiring diagram that came with it. Each output has a terminal block for convenience so you can easily connect direct from those terminals to your stepper drivers, and put a fuse inline. Also - those automotive fuses are not rated for 70VDC, if you do blow one up it may cause a different fault (fire!) that is as bad or worse than what you were trying to prevent in the first place. Use a simple 1/4" ACG fuse holders (available as inline, panel mount or stand alone bolt down) and then you can select the appropriate fuse for the drives
Also, why do you need handwheels on a cnc machine - especially handwheels that won't have graduations for travel?

Yeah, it does have two outputs, I guess I meant the terminal blocks had a total of 4, two on each one, so do I just put two steppers on one output, and the 3rd on the second one. Both output 1 and 2 can be wired in series for double voltage or in parallel for double current, pretty sure I don’t need to do this, but I should ask..
the downloads section at automation tech, where I bought the psu from are not working at the moment, so schematics and specs are not available right now other than a stick that came on the box showing how to wire up the main 110/220 input, but I have antek which I believe makes them for AutoTech.
I didn’t think those fuses would be correct, I’ll get some inline holders for acg fuses, my steppers are rated for 6.2A so I guess I’ll start with 5A fuses, until I can get an idea what all I will need to put it all together with din rail terminal blocks and fuse holders. As for the hand wheels, they do have graduated dials, I also have a dro that will stay on in the mean time, atleast until the mill is up and running and I am comfortable using it in cnc mode. Should make quick drilling, or simple milling ops easier/quicker using the hand wheels and quill without having to boot a computer.
which brings me to my next question, I have a windows xp computer, that was very expensive back in the day, it has a parallel port(which I don’t need), and Ethernet, as well as a decent graphics card, I also have a cheapo but newer, windows 7 and a windows vista computer, any reason to use one over the other? My main computer is a MacBook, but it’s only got thunderbolt? Ports. I plan to use fusion for all the cad, and I will probably use it for cam as well, then I think I will go with Mach3, especially now that I know I can run a free trial version to make sure it works well.

[Mwmx54]

I finished everything I can make using the mill, the rest I will have to make while it is disassembled and I will use the lathe with the milling attachment. I brought in a motor and did a “quick” mock-up wiring it all up, I tried Mach4 but kept getting errors during install saying it couldn’t write something, after an hour messing with that, I went to Mach3, which I did get to work, I ran the scu, and the ESS plug in, and I believe it is all correct, when I jog the machine the “dro” moves, but I can’t get the motor to move, I spent 9 hours today messing with it. I couldn’t figure out if there is something else I need to download for the c11g? How am I supposed to know which pins are which? I found a diagram of someone who posted a schematic and I followed that, but he was using 3 phase steppers, and no encoders. Any advice on this? How am i supposed to know what pins are what on the c11g board? To input that to the Mach configurations?
Thanks.

[Mwmx54]

Holy $h!t, am I really this retarded. I’m sitting at my parents for Sunday dinners and reading through some forums, and I just realized, the c11g terminals are literally effing numbered right on the damn board, I don’t know why my brain didn’t comprehend that those numbers were the PP numbers. I guess being separated by “5v” and “c” and “g” kept my not very brilliant mind from putting the pieces together. Tomorrow is a new day, I think I will be able to atleast get a motor to move.

[Mwmx54]

Yeah I’m doing something wrong, not sure what, I got the motor to move, and the indicator lights to kick on, on the c11g, but when I hit jog, the motor shakes like a mofo, and triggers an alarm on the driver, only way I can reset it is to disconnect from the PSU and restart Mach, I tried changing the signal from high to low on both step and direction in Mach, but it’s still not working. I have everything hooked up like the drivers manual says, I plan on taking off the back cover to see if the encoder wiring is correctly labeled. Not sure what else I can do. I also tried changing the jumper on the c11g from common high to ground, no difference. I’m running out of ambition with this.

[Mwmx54]

Woke up this morning, pulled the back cap off the motor, all the wiring was correct, so I put it back together, started everything, and it works now, i have the common set to 5V and I tried changing the setting in Mach from low to high, in the motor input section, but it made no difference. I think maybe when I shut down Mach last night the pin and port# settings went into effect, and now it works. I don’t understand why changing the dir lowactive and step low active don’t change anything? I even restarted Mach after the change. Anyways, I’m pretty happy, it was eating at me last night not being able to figure out the problem.