Your prefered machine. - Page 3


View Poll Results: What is your preferd machine out of these six

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  • Mazak

    55 15.07%
  • Mori Seki

    93 25.48%
  • Haas

    85 23.29%
  • Okuma

    69 18.90%
  • Daewoo

    20 5.48%
  • Bridgeport / Hardinge

    43 11.78%
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Thread: Your prefered machine.

  1. #41
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    okuma
    mori seiki
    nakamura
    hitachi seiki

    the rest ?



  2. #42
    Registered JimPAC's Avatar
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    Mazak MV-550 Mazatrol M32, for $5000.00 moving cost with Pallet Changer from Triump KC KS
    Thats what I'm talking about!

    Steal it and we can make it work!!!



  3. #43
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    Is there anything in the very large portfolio of Mazak that Mori has no equivalent (aside from the laser machines)?
    Also, what is the general opinion here about the SNK machines?



  4. #44
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    Good post by the guy from CA. It was pretty much on point and I have bellowed in laughter at whats under the sheet metal of the Haas. That said the right answer is always it depends. Otherwise there would be no need to have salespeople and application engineers. Mazak as a stand alone machine does not hold a candle in accuracy and rigidity to the Okuma, Mori, Makino. With that I am not sure why you lumped Makino in with Matsura who is a specialty builder now but I it is not possible to keep up with everything. Mori is the best in Turning hands down. Makino in the best in Milling. This is based on if you put two machines side by side and ran a somewhat demading part for 6 months or more 12 plus hours a day. That is not to say that in certain applications other machines would provide a better value but Makino is not a specialty builder. They are top 3 in Japanese Horizontals. The fact that they choose to make an EDM product rather than a turning product (sticking to the Die/Mold Roots) is the only reason you don't see more of them then Mori or Okuma. You will never get a Makino that is stripped down to save on cost. They have operations in Singapore for building lower cost models, but these are Makino factories and they put out machines that are still better than the rest for the applications they are aimed at. YCM is the elite Tawainese Milling machine. In certain applications it has passed the Korean's but, I will put a post 2005 Doosan against the YCM and it will be tough to argue in either direction. Doosan Lathes are in the top 3 world wide based on independent testing and customer feedback. I would take a Puma over any machine other than a Mori in multi-task turning but again it will be based on the specific needs of the customer. Kitimura and Toyoda (japanese built) have always been very high end Japnese machines. I think they have fell behind as I am seeing these machines fall short sitting next to Mori's Makinos and yes Matsuras. Okuma has the second best Japanese built vertical in my opinion but they are not as good in horizontal applications. I just watched on fall way short against an OKK in deep boring where the Okuma had a lot of chatter compared to the OKK. Same taper and configuration for the most part. Mazak can compete on the platform of innovation, value, the fact they are much better than some alternatives but from the standpoint of construction they fall short. For many applications Mazak will provide the most value, although I would be hesitant to go with such a different control. I see customers who despite poor service stick with Mazak because to learn a new control is a big task and disruptive to production. I don;t see this as often with the Okuma control as I don't think they intentional try to use control as a tool for repeat business when Mazak might. There is a lot to say and again the fella from CA has very good insight and an opinion that can be respected as an industry insider.



  5. #45
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    Default Makino

    Hello and what about makino?
    I would like to vote for makino.



  6. #46
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    Default the problem is

    The problem is that the people who run them do not usually have the luxury of running apples to apples comparisons to each machine. If you work in a shop that buys a new haas and the other machines are older, they are going to thing the Haas is great. The control graphics are neat like an X box and it is easy. The service shows up and replaces the part that can be bought at the hardwared store, so the machine is down long enough for a long break but not long enough to be sent home or put on deburring/sweeping duty.
    I have a shop that has Makino;s from the earlly to mid 90'. They bought new Mazaks in 08. What do you think the guys want? The owner is smart enough to know that the Makino's have lasted this long for a reason and are night and day in Die/Mold, but if was up to the guys running them, it would be Mazak. Many people do not know Doosan today. Post 2006 they are the number 3 builder in the world and number on consumer of Fanuc controls. The Puma turning machines go head to head with the best in Mori and behind them is left several high end japanese machines that are not in the same class as a Puma. I understand they did not make their own fancy contol with graphics and cartoons for every application but when it comes to productivity they are among the best. In an apples to apples test cut, they are the worst nightmare of Okuma and Nakamura becuase the price has not caugt up with the demand. Despite their great success you still have the guy that ran a 2003 Doosan Mecatec built by someone else or an old Daewoo mill that has had a spindle issue but post 2006 Pumas go in and the customer never looks back. My guess is they have the most repeat business because for the price they can't be touched.
    Mazak and Haas do the most advertising and have cult followings. They can put iron aroung any control and it will be considered good by some. Its not that people don't know what they are talking about, its that there is not enough information to form an opinion otherwise.



  7. #47
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    And yes Makino should be on here before brideport/hardinge who has just become a cheap Tawian offering for Okuma dealers.
    Makino would get my vote as well for what they do in terms of engineering, R&D and development aimed at making customers more productive. They have dominated in every sector that they have chosen to, just recently winning an award for develoing a spindle that removes 4 times the material in Aerospace alloys compared with other methods. They are left out because if your a turning guy, they don't have anything for you.



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    Thumbs up Makino

    Makino machine have very good position in the market also accuracy very good but only spare part it problem in europe.

    ~Stiglo~


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stiglo View Post
    Makino machine have very good position in the market also accuracy very good but only spare part it problem in europe.
    When you need vote for makino pls write some message to admin

    ~Stiglo~


  10. #50
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    My vote is for Mazak. Reason being is that in my current company I have 2 mazaks that are over 30 years old and still running. We have 2 Doosans that are half that age and are struggling already. Next best is definately okuma for me. But that is looking at quality, not affordability.

    [SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"][FONT="Palatino Linotype"]Follow me on twitter [COLOR="Red"]@GordoHogan[/COLOR] or Check out my blog:[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]
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  11. #51
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    Very well said... I ran one of those dx32 Bridgeports and what a piece of $%#T. The shop I work for has a Vision wide mill that makes the other Mazak mills look silly. I hate linear guide construction.



  12. #52
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    Lots of good points here. No ego's either. The "businessman" makes good points. . I love what Gene has done and if you haven't gotten a factory tour, do whatever you can to get out here to see it. That said, they are piles of crap. dinky lil spindles, dinky lil ballscrews held on by dinky lil Mickey Mouse pillow blocks. And they know it. The philosophy is, run the chit outta it for 3 years and by then the technology will have advanced so much that it is worth it to throw it away and buy another.Nothing wrong with that and I cover all of SoCal from Paso Robles down to Mexi and there are several THOUSAND shops making tons of money that prolly wouldn't be in business if they had to start out buying tiny Mori Jr. for well over 100k.
    I recently become factory hire for Miyano and went to a co. in Fullerton and I asked them if they needed any parts or sevice was there any problems and the guy looked at me like I was a martian and said " Are you serious?" Concerned I said "whats wrong" and he laughed and said the machine has had ZERO service issues in 19 years!!!!
    I love you Miyano, I love you I love you I love you. I hear that every single day!
    Alas,no mills from them though.
    SNK? Great machines, I lost many an order while selling Cincy rail machines in the 90's
    Makino, OKK, ditto. How bout this: Kuraki. Friggen monsters!! Hamai-awesome machine, hand-built never breaks. Roku Roku: another machine that goes 20 years without service. Since moving here from Boston in 89, I've seen machines that never made it across the country. They had to pick me off the floor when I heard the names Ooya and Ikegai. Ooooo ya Mr. icky guy,lol. Both outstanding machines. Takahashi Microstar will make any Hardinge SP shivver,and Shaublin too. Takisawa (Japan) was another all purpose builder that made great machines. Volume round parts? How about Fuji, Wasino,Suga and of course Miyano. Ask any Asian who is the best builder and almost to a man, without hesitating, they will say Yasda. Me? Childs play when compared to a Hermle. Mitsui Seiki, Chiron and Bostomatic are up in that rareified air too. Don't even get me going on the Germans. If you are a machine tool builder and you don't have a Waldrich Coburg then you are merely a poseur,lol. JK. Heyligenstaedt...BOINGggggggg. You wanna turn big parts? Try beating their neighbors in Austria, WFL-Millturn.They don't fool me by calling them lathes, those mofo's are heavy duty (Hydrotel anyone) mills masquerading as turn-mills. Go watch a video of them burying a milling cutter and NOT get a boner. Lathes? ha, they ain't no stinkin lathe,lmao.

    Its a very subjective question, akin to who makes the best car or who is the best guitarist. WHADDAYA MEAN JEFF BECK ISN'T THE BEST,lol.

    Carry on friends.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by zucchero View Post
    okuma
    mori seiki
    nakamura
    hitachi seiki

    the rest ?
    Good choices, except hitachi have been gone for years. In fact, I beleive Mori took over ops and where building them as Mori HiTech.
    I sold Hitachi after the big GE RiverWorks layoff in the late 80's and will say the 3NE/4NE/5NE where well loved but when they came out with the HT with lm guides and bastard seicos multi crap they tanked. Good machines, no, VERY good machines until you got into interrupted cuts where Mori would beat em like a red headed step child. Fast, accurate and reliable though.



  14. #54

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    Haas all the way!

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    Anything but hurco I have been fighting with a hawk 5m for a week



  16. #56
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    Horizontals:
    Matsuura
    Mori
    Okk
    Mazak

    Verticals:
    Mori
    Makino
    Matsuura
    Mazak

    Swiss
    Tsugami
    Citizen
    Star

    Lathe
    Mori
    Nakamura
    Okuma

    I own the number one machines in my list. I also own a few haas machines that are not mentioned. I like haas, but they are in a different category.



  17. #57
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    Take a look at YCM. You folks will be very surprised. They have an nxv mill in the same price range as a loaded up haas vf3ss. Ycm is as close to Japanese quality without the price tag. Their castings are overbuilt and they seat the ballscrews proper in the casting. Not bolted down.

    Eurotech is an amazing production turning machine. They offer true turnkey solutions.

    We have several of both.


    Russ



  18. #58
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    Default Re: Your prefered machine.

    It depends on your parts.
    99.9% of all parts will work from the cheapest of the bunch, with the fastest cheapest service, ie Haas.
    So, for 99.9% of all users, the Haas will make you the best profit.

    If a 50.000 Haas makes the parts you need, thats a lot better than a 150.000 "xxx Seiki", or whatever.
    Longevity is pretty good on Haas too, but will depend on the parts you make.

    Ie a machine twice as heavy will be more rigid, and if you business is moving large amounts of metal as fast as possible, you are likely to need the heaviest machine that is a reasonable choice costwise.
    Its silly to pay 150.000 when you need a 50.000 machine.
    And the other way round, too.

    If you need to make complex mill-turn parts, you *need to* buy one of those to succeed.
    These are production tools meant to boost profits, not egos.
    Its immaterial if one is faster or more accurate, if the other will make you more money.

    And longevity in 30 years is immaterial, for a 500.000 $ machine, if the cheap 50.000 machine makes you 500.000 profit in the first year.
    The choice is driven by needs and costs.
    Unfortunately, often other factors seem to intrude..



  19. #59
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    Default Re: Your prefered machine.

    Haas are not reliable by any means...there are so many better machines out there in the same or very similar price range. So many people buy Haas based solely on the control, the made in the USA sticker (I would love to buy made in the USA but my money goes to whatever is going to make me the most money), and really because they believe that it's really the only machine in their price range.

    Check out the YCM NXV 1020A. I paid $84k for it. By the time I put all the options on the Haas it was actually more than the VF3SS and out performs it over 2-1. The Spindle is near silent when running. I'll never buy a Haas again. My only regret is that I never looked at other options in the past.

    YCM is insane for the money. Just a humble guys opinion



  20. #60
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    Default Re: Your prefered machine.

    Oops grammar error. The YCM is cheaper than the Haas.



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