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Thread: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzeniger View Post

    What the 'hack" Wintrop????????
    Why your mach3 licence is candcnc but you use NeuronTHC?
    I asume that once you had THC from Candcnc and now you use Neuron. Give us details!!!
    Hi schwarzeniger, I was going to ask how you knew that when I noticed the photo. Anyway I was using the CandCNC MP3000 fully loaded and very carefully integrated. I was even using a 7:1 divider for optimum S/N ratio and had the Z-axis tuned for optimal performance and no step loss. Everything was done by the book, but the best I could get was on average +/- .025" for a .060" cut height. No true PID functions so my hands were really tied. Best analogy previously given is like trying to stop a car on a line when you can either floor it or slam on the brakes. My fault.

    So I began my quest for a replacement. Having spent 30 years working with semiconductor equipment I am very spec oriented. You don't buy anything in semicon without double checking the specs, so my instinct is to ask the obvious questions if your selling a THC, how accurate does it control height?

    It's kinda funny that for as many post as I have read on Torch Height Control, nobody talks about the accuracy! The only two references I have come across was a post by Jim Colt of Hypertherm that mentioned +/- .005" and Camsoft that has a non voltage unit they spec at +/- 1%. Both of these units are expensive, but you do get some sense of what your buying.

    For me before I think about cut charts, integration, features and speeds I want to know HOW ACCURATE IS THE DAMN THING! What am I buying, a profile loader or a height controller? In my view it's the burden that is placed on the manufacturer to spec the product. I have spent a lot of time tracking what I do, how I cut and my cost to produce what I do, which is why I also took the time to get the height vs voltage data for my system. Cutting 1000's of parts in 3/8" is no cake walk and cutting at +/- .025 just doesn't work for me.

    That being said it came down to two choices, Neuron or the new Eithercut from CandCNC and I went with the Neuron primarily because after a lot of conversation with Andrew Shad I felt that it met my desired SPEC. My mean is now +/- .0025 on cut height, so I increased my accuracy by tenfold. I will guarantee anybody +/- .005 with proper z-axis build and a Hypertherm Powermax. Neuron gave me a sense that it was designed for industrial applications, used by people in Europe cutting heavier material that just don't have time to screw around. How does it compare to the new Eithercut from a actual height control spec? I don't know and have no way to answer that unless I see data. The Eithercut looks greatly improved over the MP3000 and I am sure it works well. We know that it is fast in response because you don't cut corrugated unless you are doing something right.

    I honestly feel to comfort picky people like me both Neuron and CandCNC and all plasma table manufacturers should spec their products. It may be a pain in the ass, but it should be done. Hell I've had a high/low needle dial indication on mine on perimeter cuts so it's not that hard to do. I also realize that in fairness there has to be some wording in regards to conditions used to achieve that spec. You can't guarantee +/- .005 for a THC to a customer that has a .100 screw in a heavy Z-Axis.

    One final comment to help answer the question about the THC3T-03. I contacted that seller and he sent me the manual, I reviewed it and decided against it. My advise to anyone considering THC would be to save your money and get a more recent true PID unit like the Neuron or the Eithercut. You will be a lot farther ahead in the long run, time is money, material is money and consumables are money and a good THC will save you money in the end.

    -Shawn



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzeniger View Post
    I just found an interesting feature. "Retry on transfer fail" is that what i think it is? I've seen that on a very old emc2 plasma profile and never on THC controllers on the market.

    I'm not doing manualy in GCODE Torchhead. But seems to be easy for me to modify some parameters inside Mach.
    Hi, me again "Retry on transfer fail" is Neurons way to relight the arc if for some reason the plasma failed to light as in bad ground or you forgot to turn the unit on. You can then turn it on or reground the plate and hit the "retry" button and it will fire and continue on with the code. Neuron also has a test function where you can test the software and leave the plasma off and it will skip the "retry on fail" function. It works.

    -Shawn



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    CAUTION this is full of tecnobabble and may cause pain and discomfort to readers not prone to wearing a helmet with a propeller on top Take in small doses
    .
    Accuracy is a rather nebulous term. Do you mean how close it tracks to the material surface?. Do you mean how fast it can do that? The Hypertherm has to track closer than some other types (.06 ) so you have less tolerance to play with. A volt of Arc volt change typically represents about .012 to .015 inches of change . To compare apples here you need to look at the MP3100 (an MP3000 with the new DTHCIV) the Ethercut is not just a DTHCIV but has a technology similar to the ESS built in for motion control. The DTHCIV does not even use the Ethernet for its interface to MACH. It uses an RS485 port. We use an A-D converter at the plasma that isolates and makes the voltage pickup noise immune. The DTHCIV has a resolution of .06 volts. (DTHCII has .25Volts) if 1 volt of change = .015 in theory .25 volt = ,00375 inches and .06 equals .0009. You have to realize the DC volts coming back off the torch are not nice and clean so it has to be sampled and averaged. The D part of the PID (derivative) is a way to average the changes. Already built into the system is averaging in the form of LC and RC filters Then you get into loop gain equations. The problem with the older DTHCII that used the internal MACH THC logic and its motor control was there was an excessive loop delay and NO PID so you were limited to about 30 to 60 IPM top Z speed under THC control. So can the DTHCIV hold .005 tolerance while cutting at 300 IPM? It could if the feedback voltage was that stable. It can move a stepper at over 1000RPM (200 IPM with a 5 TPI leadscrew) and servos even faster. It's up to 10 times faster and 4 times more accurate. Will it result in a better cut? Not on thicker flat material. Some where between the Promo with relays for the signals back to MACH on the parallel port (about 1/2 the speed of the DTHCII ) and the ultra high speed DTHCIV there is a point that the average user gets no added benefit..

    The MP3000-DTHCII continues to sell and work well for a lot of users that do not have need for the ultra response and are interested in a THC that can make good cuts in a wide range of material from 16 ga to 1". We sell a lot of Ether-Cuts not because of the DTHCIV but because of the better interface (Ethernet) to the PC than the legacy 25 pin LPT port for the step & dir, And the wider options of OS versions it will support Will you get a better cut with an EtherCut than an MP3100-DTHCIV? Nope! Does it have more features Nope! Will it let you use a laptop 35 ft away (or more) from your controller? YOU BET! Wilt it let you use WIN 7 64 bit? Yes again!

    The concept you can hold +- .0025 " of accuracy is hogwash (technical term for hard to measure and quantity). Heck, from speed changes alone the voltage can vary over a volt at the same gap because arc gap is not the only factor in Torch Volts. Try it some time. Turn the THC off, level the materiel and make some straight cuts at the exact .060 height. Now cut faster and slower on the same material and watch the voltage. Then throw in some arcs, corners and tight turns. If even a straight cut holds that steady you have a very flat and homogenous piece of metal!. Even the same piece of metal can have areas of different density Considering plasma cutting is the process of vaporizing metal with a 30,000 deg arc and blowing it out with air with a flame that is neither rigid nor straight sided.

    I am surprised that you being a numbers and detail engineering type you did not pickup on the HyT-Connect RS485 option we offer to let you control your Hyperthem's Cut Current and air pressure. You can do things like a "soft pierce" on thicker metal at the pierce at a lower current and slow down the plunge to reduce splash and trauma on the consumables. Users report 3X life increases on consumables where JOBS there are lots of pierce points) or to do a "peck punch " with the plasma that just pecks a mark on the surface without blowing holes all of the say through for center punching

    The reference to the ESS and the delay is from this:

    MACH reads the G-Code and sends "trajectory commands" to the ESS that fills a buffer and the ESS runs the actual motion out of the buffer at its rate. Where MACH is and where the actual machine is are different. So if you read a special command to turn the THC on or off in GCode and it gets processed in "MACH time" (the ESS does not process M codes directly) it happens BEFORE you are really in the spot you want it too. The problem is the way the ESS works with MACH3. For a person that deals in tiny increments and great detail I would think that problem might hold your curiosity .This becomes obvious if you need dynamic precisely timed DTHC OFF and ON.during a cut

    Another issue is feedhold and how the loss of arc is handled. Somehow the THC has to stop motion and either use feedhold or STOP. Stop dumps the buffer and loses position. Feedhold issued to MACH results in some crazy moves with the ESS because it is not in charge of the ESS buffer . None of this is a problem with a parallel port system because there is no delay between code execution and the pulses being sent to the motors

    I am sure at this point the average CNCZoner has a glaze over their eyes. 95% of my customers are small to medium shops and are welders, fabricators and tradesmen that don't know a megacycle from a unicycle but they can sure weld a lot better than I can!. So raw specs don't mean much. in fact the guys that sell the single knob analog THCs, call their stuff an " Automatic Torch Height Control" too! too!. It has become a check list item on a table with NO details. . Some famous vendors sell the "dream" of what you can make with your new table rather than give in-depth technical details. They understand their market and the potential buyers!

    TOMcaudle
    www.candcnc.com



  4. #24
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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Quote Originally Posted by Torchhead View Post
    CAUTION this is full of tecnobabble and may cause pain and discomfort to readers not prone to wearing a helmet with a propeller on top Take in small doses
    .
    Accuracy is a rather nebulous term. Do you mean how close it tracks to the material surface?. Do you mean how fast it can do that? The Hypertherm has to track closer than some other types (.06 ) so you have less tolerance to play with. A volt of Arc volt change typically represents about .012 to .015 inches of change . To compare apples here you need to look at the MP3100 (an MP3000 with the new DTHCIV) the Ethercut is not just a DTHCIV but has a technology similar to the ESS built in for motion control. The DTHCIV does not even use the Ethernet for its interface to MACH. It uses an RS485 port. We use an A-D converter at the plasma that isolates and makes the voltage pickup noise immune. The DTHCIV has a resolution of .06 volts. (DTHCII has .25Volts) if 1 volt of change = .015 in theory .25 volt = ,00375 inches and .06 equals .0009. You have to realize the DC volts coming back off the torch are not nice and clean so it has to be sampled and averaged. The D part of the PID (derivative) is a way to average the changes. Already built into the system is averaging in the form of LC and RC filters Then you get into loop gain equations. The problem with the older DTHCII that used the internal MACH THC logic and its motor control was there was an excessive loop delay and NO PID so you were limited to about 30 to 60 IPM top Z speed under THC control. So can the DTHCIV hold .005 tolerance while cutting at 300 IPM? It could if the feedback voltage was that stable. It can move a stepper at over 1000RPM (200 IPM with a 5 TPI leadscrew) and servos even faster. It's up to 10 times faster and 4 times more accurate. Will it result in a better cut? Not on thicker flat material. Some where between the Promo with relays for the signals back to MACH on the parallel port (about 1/2 the speed of the DTHCII ) and the ultra high speed DTHCIV there is a point that the average user gets no added benefit..

    The MP3000-DTHCII continues to sell and work well for a lot of users that do not have need for the ultra response and are interested in a THC that can make good cuts in a wide range of material from 16 ga to 1". We sell a lot of Ether-Cuts not because of the DTHCIV but because of the better interface (Ethernet) to the PC than the legacy 25 pin LPT port for the step & dir, And the wider options of OS versions it will support Will you get a better cut with an EtherCut than an MP3100-DTHCIV? Nope! Does it have more features Nope! Will it let you use a laptop 35 ft away (or more) from your controller? YOU BET! Wilt it let you use WIN 7 64 bit? Yes again!

    The concept you can hold +- .0025 " of accuracy is hogwash (technical term for hard to measure and quantity). Heck, from speed changes alone the voltage can vary over a volt at the same gap because arc gap is not the only factor in Torch Volts. Try it some time. Turn the THC off, level the materiel and make some straight cuts at the exact .060 height. Now cut faster and slower on the same material and watch the voltage. Then throw in some arcs, corners and tight turns. If even a straight cut holds that steady you have a very flat and homogenous piece of metal!. Even the same piece of metal can have areas of different density Considering plasma cutting is the process of vaporizing metal with a 30,000 deg arc and blowing it out with air with a flame that is neither rigid nor straight sided.

    I am surprised that you being a numbers and detail engineering type you did not pickup on the HyT-Connect RS485 option we offer to let you control your Hyperthem's Cut Current and air pressure. You can do things like a "soft pierce" on thicker metal at the pierce at a lower current and slow down the plunge to reduce splash and trauma on the consumables. Users report 3X life increases on consumables where JOBS there are lots of pierce points) or to do a "peck punch " with the plasma that just pecks a mark on the surface without blowing holes all of the say through for center punching

    The reference to the ESS and the delay is from this:

    MACH reads the G-Code and sends "trajectory commands" to the ESS that fills a buffer and the ESS runs the actual motion out of the buffer at its rate. Where MACH is and where the actual machine is are different. So if you read a special command to turn the THC on or off in GCode and it gets processed in "MACH time" (the ESS does not process M codes directly) it happens BEFORE you are really in the spot you want it too. The problem is the way the ESS works with MACH3. For a person that deals in tiny increments and great detail I would think that problem might hold your curiosity .This becomes obvious if you need dynamic precisely timed DTHC OFF and ON.during a cut

    Another issue is feedhold and how the loss of arc is handled. Somehow the THC has to stop motion and either use feedhold or STOP. Stop dumps the buffer and loses position. Feedhold issued to MACH results in some crazy moves with the ESS because it is not in charge of the ESS buffer . None of this is a problem with a parallel port system because there is no delay between code execution and the pulses being sent to the motors

    I am sure at this point the average CNCZoner has a glaze over their eyes. 95% of my customers are small to medium shops and are welders, fabricators and tradesmen that don't know a megacycle from a unicycle but they can sure weld a lot better than I can!. So raw specs don't mean much. in fact the guys that sell the single knob analog THCs, call their stuff an " Automatic Torch Height Control" too! too!. It has become a check list item on a table with NO details. . Some famous vendors sell the "dream" of what you can make with your new table rather than give in-depth technical details. They understand their market and the potential buyers!

    TOMcaudle
    www.candcnc.com
    This reply is exactly why I did not buy your system.

    "Accuracy is a rather nebulous term. Do you mean how close it tracks to the material surface?"
    WRONG! Accuracy is not a nebulous term, ask Hypertherm. How do they sell an expensive height control unit? With accuracy and more importantly a spec of +/- .005 that they stand behind and in an industrial application that means everything.... period. If there is a meeting at Hypertherm, and the customer is debating stopping production, shutting down the machine, spending $10K and taking the time to integrate do you think the question of accuracy may come up......maybe? To some companies giving a spec and standing behind it is worth the 10K alone, it's called confidence and that's the reality of the industrial world. Most successful manufacturing companies would not touch your products if you gave them away for free, no spec, no buy. Sorry man, you made it, you spec it, it's your call.

    When I asked you about specs regarding your new THC you became rather condescending which kinda rubbed me the wrong way. It was like gee I'm sorry for asking...forgive me for being arrogant in wanting to know how well your new height controller controls height. My MP3000 is at best +/- .025, so I am a little curious before I lay down more money and TIME. I could care less whether I can use my laptop from 35', or make youtube videos cutting tin. First and foremost is how well it controls height, everything else is secondary.

    "The concept you can hold +- .0025 " of accuracy is hogwash"
    I presented real data and explained that my mean is +/- .0025 I know you know what "mean" means. Maybe you should reread my post on the ability of Neuron to capture data and the fact I posted the only chart that I know of on the web of height vs voltage. You wrote in your MP3000 manual that 1 volt equal .025". Really? Where is your data? Buy the way you later retracted, and it made me wonder at the time that if you don't know volts vs height, how did you optimize your product? Maybe you don't really know the voltage vs height SLOPE for different material? Again where is your data, you are the manufacturer, the burden is on you.

    The MP3000-DTHCII continues to sell and work well for a lot of users that do not have need for the ultra response and are interested in a THC that can make good cuts in a wide range of material from 16 ga to 1"
    3/16", 1/4", 3/8", 7/16", 3/8" with a MP3000 while the voltage is bouncing up and down 1,2,3 volts! That's good cutting in your view! Let's not even talk about 1/2" and 1". Sorry, you need to be honest about that unit, or maybe you don't really know, but I have seen too many post about that model. There is no PID so it's end of story.

    The bottom line is that in a production real world situation using heavier gauge material I will cut circles around your system. I've cut more heavy material than you will ever cut and your latest and greatest can not compete with me. How can I be so sure??????? Because you have no way of sampling the voltage, so in a head to head competition regarding cut accuracy, edge squareness and backside dross Neuron outperforms your unit right out of the gate and I paid LESS for the Neuron than I spent on the MP3000, and it will outperform the 3500. Your mistake was dropping "Smartcut" which told me two things. One, I understand your customer base and two maybe you don't have much experience cutting thicker steel.

    I will say it again, dollar for dollar nothing beats the Neuron THC. The proof is in the results. If you can't properly read and control the voltage at cut height you are limited. Ask Trucut how their customers run their systems. Above a certain gauge, everything is sampled.....period. Real world, cutting real material.

    Finally I will say it again loud and clear! The following is not my opinion, but a fact that anybody considering THC needs to really digest!!!!

    TIP VOLTAGE EQUALS CORRECT TORCH HEIGHT - WRONG!
    CORRECT TORCH HEIGHT EQUALS TIP VOLTAGE - RIGHT!

    So again, for what I do and 1172 production parts and counting and that doesn't include misc.stuff. I put a plate on the table, new, fresh, rusted, big or small and hit run. The Neuron does IHS, goes to cut height samples the voltage and cuts the parts accurately over and over again.

    One last word which is worth noting. In theory a PID torch height control is rather simple and the days of analog PID controllers are over. There is now a wide array of devices that can perform PID funtions well. The Neuron ARM does all of the work, but a Microprocessor is only as good as it's code and without going into a lot of detail Andrew Shad of Neuron knows what he is doing. He can write code, good code. So for me when considering stopping
    production and changing systems I start digging and asking questions. I knew right away that Neuron was the real deal, a no nonsense very accurate THC for a steal of a price.



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Winthrop,

    I run a blacksmith shop in Vermont and have a Tracker cutting table ,with it's own proprietary software, and a Torchmate THC. I am trying to find a replacement THC , with ohmic sensor, that only requires the start/stop signal from the cnc controller, which is how the Tracker THC works. Currently, I control the voltage and initial stand off on the Torchmate THC screen which is all that I need. I have extremely limited electronic skills and understanding. I am better with a hammer.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Steven Bronstein
    Blackthorne Forge of Vermont - Steven Bronstein, Blacksmith



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Hi Steven, as a fellow Smith I really wish I could help but I am not familiar at all with the Torchmate THC or Tracker software. Maybe some Torchmate folks could chime in? Is the Torchmate THC dead or not working well with heavier material? Do you use Sheetcam? Since Tracker is not a Mach based system you may need a standalone PID unit like the Proma, but having watched some videos of that unit and the voltage display I question the accuracy. It should be possible to convert the machine over to Mach, but that may require more time and money that you had planned for. I am obviously a big Neuron fan, but I use Sheetcam/Mach so it was easy to implement.

    The simple solution would be to get the Torchmate THC dialed in if possible, but again I have no experience with that unit so unfortunately I'm not much help.

    -Shawn



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Hi Steven!
    Unfortunately Neuron Lite and Professional version can work only with Mach3/Mach4.
    BUT Now being tested the new full stand alone Neuron THC controller.
    It can work with any CNC and has a discrete IO control interface: Input Signals START and HOLD from CNC and output signal MOTION to CNC.
    The new controller combines the simple operation, providing a high cutiing quality and reliability in industrial environments. Like all Neuron THC controllers.
    These are some photos of the controller prototype. I hope in March new controller will be available.

    Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller-neuron-jpgAnyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller-panel-jpg

    Best Regards!
    Andrew.


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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Quote Originally Posted by shad71 View Post
    Hi Steven!
    Unfortunately Neuron Lite and Professional version can work only with Mach3/Mach4.
    BUT Now being tested the new full stand alone Neuron THC controller.
    It can work with any CNC and has a discrete IO control interface: Input Signals START and HOLD from CNC and output signal MOTION to CNC.
    The new controller combines the simple operation, providing a high cutiing quality and reliability in industrial environments. Like all Neuron THC controllers.
    These are some photos of the controller prototype. I hope in March new controller will be available.

    Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller-neuron-jpgAnyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller-panel-jpg
    There you go Steven. Put the Neuron on your table and never look back, you will be very very pleased with Andrew's work!



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Hi Andrew,

    It sounds like this would be the replacement for my Torchmate THC. I am happy with this unit but it does not have an ohmic sensor to register contact with the material. Will this be in your unit, that would be critical to me. Let me know if you need a beta tester. I have a small production shop and am very interested in getting an ohmic THC.

    Thanks,
    Stevem
    Blackthorne Forge of Vermont - Steven Bronstein, Blacksmith



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Steven, ask me - your Torchmate THC has the Input for Initial Height Sensing procedure (find metal surface)? Like float head switch.
    Try to check it.
    My ohmic sensor has relay output. Maybe it is possible to make them work together

    Last edited by shad71; 02-13-2015 at 02:24 PM.
    Best Regards!
    Andrew.


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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Hi Andrew,

    I think there is a pressure switch inside the smart motor. which controls the torch head. The torch head comes down until it meets a certain amount of resistance and then rises to the set pierce height. The only inputs into the THC are from the computer which provides the start input and the voltage signal from the plasma cutter

    If you think there is a work around I would love to hear about it.



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Steven, do you use the red screen or blue screen Torchmate THC?

    Best Regards!
    Andrew.


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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Hi Andrew,

    I have the red screen Torchmate THC

    Steven



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Quote Originally Posted by scbron View Post
    Hi Andrew,

    I have the red screen Torchmate THC

    Steven
    I have OHC3T-03 is not work . dont have any support from the company only toys



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Quote Originally Posted by scbron View Post
    Hi Andrew,

    It sounds like this would be the replacement for my Torchmate THC. I am happy with this unit but it does not have an ohmic sensor to register contact with the material. Will this be in your unit, that would be critical to me. Let me know if you need a beta tester. I have a small production shop and am very interested in getting an ohmic THC.

    Thanks,
    Stevem
    Blackthorne Forge of Vermont - Steven Bronstein, Blacksmith
    Hello Steven,
    You can find the solution for Torchmate's (Red Display) THC:

    https://cnc4pc.com/motion-control/to...tml#prodtabs-4

    Or:

    Torchmate Applications

    Merry Christmas

    Best regards



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Hello!
    Steven, If you still have interest to find full stand alone THC for replacing the Torchmate red screen controller look: Neuron Simplicity
    User Manual http://neuroncnc.com/assets/docs/Neu...UserManual.pdf
    Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller-neuronsimplicityw800-jpg

    Best Regards!
    Andrew.


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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    I have the thc3t-04 and have been impressed with it so far takes a little to configure but once done works like a charm cheap yes works yes and have had plenty of support from the company



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Hi Andrew (Shad71),

    I've been working on my own very fully featured DIY THC for quite some time now but it will only be a basic THC UP / THC DOWN signal sending type, nothing like your Simplicity with fully external PID control. I recently bought some cnc software and did some testing with a logic analyser to test reaction times of certain features. Unfortunately, I ended up devastated after my testing revealed one of the most important plasma functions did not work as advertised and effectively made the software useless (for my needs) until they fix that particular feature.

    So until that's fixed it's back to Mach3 and the first THC I'm considering is your Simplicity (my THC has been designed around and talks to the other software, not Mach3). As has been previously mentioned, what interested me in your THC is:

    1). Torch refire - I've needed that one a few times.
    2). Voltage sampling – I believe Candcnc had problems and abandoned theirs
    3). THC disable input
    4). Hole centre marking feature - I designed a board to do that very thing 1-2 years ago, so obviously that's important to me.

    Some questions I have on the Simplicity are:

    1). Does the Simplicity not have the Puddle Jump feature that is in your other THC
    2). What is the time delay from receiving a THC Disable signal to Z step pulses stopping.
    3). This question is about synchronous Torch on/off switching. I.E. can this be done with the Neuron. If I want to turn on the torch synchronously with XY motion then I’d have in the gcode:

    X1 X moves 1mm
    M11 P3 Turn on output 3 at next motion move
    X10 Motion move, output 1 turns on at beginning of this move

    Likewise I want to be able to turn the torch off before the end of an XY move so I program something like:

    M10 P3 Turn off output 3 at next motion move
    X12 Output 3 turns of at X10 position and X moves 2 more mm

    The above means the Torch On signal (output 3) must “pass through” the Neuron without any “significant” delay (i.e. very quickly). Also the Arc OK signal is irrelevant in this case because XY motion must start/continue without any Arc OK present, BUT the THC would need to enable THC after the torch has switched on and disable THC before the torch is switched off. I also realise you can't have the torch refire feature when doing a synchronuos fire with motion. You simply rely on the torch firing first time.

    Can such operation be accomplished with the Neuron in addition to the normal starting using M3 and Arc OK.

    So what is the purpose of all that ??
    Open lines on thinner sheet and avoiding the round pierce holes by starting a pierce with motion.
    Likewise turning the torch off a mm or 2 before the end of a cut to avoid a blow out divot.
    Similarly hole cutting where users often get a divot as the plug drops out. Switching the torch off before motion ends prevents this divot.

    Thanks,

    Keith.



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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Hello Keith!
    Very impressed with your knowledge of plasma cutting. I think you will understand me very good
    About Simplicity futures, yes it's have Torch refire, Voltage sampling, have THC disable input and Hole center marking feature.
    1). Does the Simplicity not have the Puddle Jump feature that is in your other THC
    Yes, Simplicity does not have Puddle Jump (Jump above the workpiece that the torch is raised to clear the top dross puddle that can form during the pierce. It is the torch height after Pierce)
    Most of my customers not use this function and I decide to not use this function in Simplicity. Now only Lite and Professional version have this future.
    2). What is the time delay from receiving a THC Disable signal to Z step pulses stopping.
    Time delay for all inputs is 5 milliseconds. This is minimal time for denouncing of the input signals.
    3). This question is about synchronous Torch on/off switching.
    I understand what you mean. All Neuron controllers before turn on the torch make Initial height sensing procedure. Then rapidly move on the transfer height and turn on the torch. Next, system wait ArcOK signal from plasma cutter.
    When ArcOK signal issue, torch move on the pierce height for piercing......
    As I understand you want to start XY motion immediately after torch on and without ArcOk control. In this situation we not have the torch refire feature. Now Simplicity make 3 attempts to refire if ArcOK signal will not issue during 3 sec after torch on.
    But Simplicity can make it. Just you have to activate ArcOK input (in the menu) and set Pierce time to zero value. Controller turn on the torch, and immediately will issue Motion command to CNC . Next - regular THC control.
    Likewise I want to be able to turn the torch off before the end of an XY move
    We have only discrete I/O interface for Simplicity, but can do this. Simplicity have "Retract delay" future. This is the time interval between Torch off signal from CNC and start of the torch retract procedure. In this case the plasma power supply turn off immediately and delay timer will start. After finishing of the delay, Motion signal will turn off and torch retract procedure will issue. I hope you understand (sorry for my English).
    For example you set RetractDelay value to 2 seconds.
    ........
    M10 P3 Turn off output 3 at next motion move
    X12 Output 3 turns of at X10 position, controller turn off the cutter, but not turn off the Motion signal, X moves 2 more mm
    When 2 sec RetractDelay will end, Motion signal will turn off and torch will start retract.
    I hope this answers your questions. Also look on the cutting sequence diagram.
    Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller-cuttingsequensediagram800-png

    Best Regards!
    Andrew.


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    Default Re: Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

    Thanks very much Andrew,

    I completely overlooked the switch debounce delay needed for inputs. I've been designing my DIY system with direct TTL signal communication to the CNC controller so haven't needed that. I suppose 5 mS is not too bad because at say a cutting speed of 6000 mm/min the torch should only move 0.5 mm in that time. Even adding the torch on relay activation time might get a max distance of 1mm. Some gcode creativity could perhaps gets around that.

    Got to say Andrew, I like the way you think. When I first looked at one of your manuals I thought this guy doesn't like to overlook anything. You seem to think of any feature you can include in your THC. I've had the torch misfire happen quite a few times but never thought to have a refire feature. Good thinking.

    Would really like that puddle jump feature in the Simplicity though (hint hint) LOL. I would go for your other THC but I think you said it ONLY works with Mach3 and if I am correct it doesn't have the hole centre marking feature.

    No apologies needed for your english Andrew. On the contrary, I have a lot of appreciation for you having learnt a 2nd language.

    Keith.



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Anyone tried the THC3T-03-Stand-Alone-Plasma-Torch-Height-Controller

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