Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

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Thread: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

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    Default Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    This system has had occasional issues with stopping randomly while running code in the past - but it was very intermittent and did not impact many jobs.

    Recently the system was moved, and the cabling has been moved.


    Now - as soon as you engage the spindle (even if not running code) it shuts off randomly, before even reaching full spindle speed.


    When it happens, program execution is stopped and spindle is shut off - but the software still communicates with the controller. I can immediately click the spindle button and re-start the spindle (only to shut off seconds later).

    As the cabling has been moved, I suspect this is some sort of a noise issue - but as I'm seeing no errors, disconnections, or tripped E-Stop/limit... I have no idea exactly what is the culprit, although I'm sure it's related to the spindle/VFD.



    Which controller do you use? MK 3/4
    Are your motor cables shielded? Yes
    Do you use external power supply for controller? Yes
    Do you use double-shielded USB cable? Yes. A 3' Tripp Lite
    double-shielded USB 2.0 cable with ferrite chokes




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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    "software stops while running code" is nothing I have encountered before so the following is merely a suggestion:

    In case you haven't already done this, to gain a deeper understanding of your situation and to rule out e-stop, limit, etc. monitor the IO.

    The IO tab displays the status of the controller's input and output pins and any "normal" hardware triggered event should be visible there. Furthermore, I would look to see if the spindle's output pin remains active when the spindle shuts off ... this would be a clear indication that the spindle/VFD is to blame ... unless what you are experiencing is not a shutdown at all but rather a change in speed which is typically controlled by an analog signal.

    Hope this helps further you along to a resolution.



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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    Quote Originally Posted by aborgman View Post
    This system has had occasional issues with stopping randomly while running code in the past - but it was very intermittent and did not impact many jobs.

    Recently the system was moved, and the cabling has been moved.


    Now - as soon as you engage the spindle (even if not running code) it shuts off randomly, before even reaching full spindle speed.


    When it happens, program execution is stopped and spindle is shut off - but the software still communicates with the controller. I can immediately click the spindle button and re-start the spindle (only to shut off seconds later).

    As the cabling has been moved, I suspect this is some sort of a noise issue - but as I'm seeing no errors, disconnections, or tripped E-Stop/limit... I have no idea exactly what is the culprit, although I'm sure it's related to the spindle/VFD.



    Which controller do you use? MK 3/4
    Are your motor cables shielded? Yes
    Do you use external power supply for controller? Yes
    Do you use double-shielded USB cable? Yes. A 3' Tripp Lite
    double-shielded USB 2.0 cable with ferrite chokes


    Need some photos of your wiring

    What VFD Drive and spindle are you using

    Spindle plug wiring may be faulty

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    Quote Originally Posted by SkiPatrol View Post
    "software stops while running code" is nothing I have encountered before so the following is merely a suggestion:

    In case you haven't already done this, to gain a deeper understanding of your situation and to rule out e-stop, limit, etc. monitor the IO.

    The IO tab displays the status of the controller's input and output pins and any "normal" hardware triggered event should be visible there. Furthermore, I would look to see if the spindle's output pin remains active when the spindle shuts off ... this would be a clear indication that the spindle/VFD is to blame ... unless what you are experiencing is not a shutdown at all but rather a change in speed which is typically controlled by an analog signal.

    Hope this helps further you along to a resolution.
    Whatever happens happens so fast you see nothing in the IO panel.

    When it happens - the spindle output pin DOES switch off in the IO panel.

    Here is a video showing the software when it happens:




    The spindle kicks out at 0:22.

    You can see the AUX section of the IO panel go blank (the four zeros disappear) for a blip, and output 1 and 2 go from on to off.



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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Need some photos of your wiring

    What VFD Drive and spindle are you using

    Spindle plug wiring may be faulty
    VFD: Leeson Speedmaster SM06 - 220V 1PH to 220V 3PH, 2 HP
    Spindle: Belt driven R8 taper spindle, driven by 3PH 2HP 220V motor

    I doubt the spindle wiring is an issue - it hasn't changed in 15 years across 3 different controllers (neither has the VFD). This is definitely something with the signals coming out of the Planet CNC controller.



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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    It would seem clear from your video that the spindle turns off when the outputs change state.

    Now as "mactec54" suggested it would be helpful to see how you wired the VFD to the MK3/4 board ... specially how Output 1 and 2 are connected. Moreover, are you using PlanetCNC's Output Board for spindle control as the following links suggest?

    https://planet-cnc.com/controlling-s...-output-board/

    https://planet-cnc.com/using-output-...c-controllers/

    Last edited by SkiPatrol; 08-23-2019 at 10:41 PM.


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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    I used to have the same problem. Tried everything, but never really solved the problem. Later I moved from USB connecton to ethernet connection.
    Since then that issue never happend again.



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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    Quote Originally Posted by aborgman View Post
    VFD: Leeson Speedmaster SM06 - 220V 1PH to 220V 3PH, 2 HP
    Spindle: Belt driven R8 taper spindle, driven by 3PH 2HP 220V motor

    I doubt the spindle wiring is an issue - it hasn't changed in 15 years across 3 different controllers (neither has the VFD). This is definitely something with the signals coming out of the Planet CNC controller.
    Still could be noise Grounding and Shield Grounding need to be looked at USB controllers have a hard time with noise

    Do you have a Power Filter in place between the main supply Power and the VFD Drive, this would be a must have

    If the spindle wiring has not been checked in 15 years it's over due for a going through or replacement, it most likely is where the problem is

    So Power Filter and VFD to Spindle wiring, and the Shield must be Grounded correctly at both ends, VFD and Motor end

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    Quote Originally Posted by SkiPatrol View Post
    It would seem clear from your video that the spindle turns off when the outputs change state.

    Now as "mactec54" suggested it would be helpful to see how you wired the VFD to the MK3/4 board ... specially how Output 1 and 2 are connected. Moreover, are you using PlanetCNC's Output Board for spindle control as the following links suggest?

    https://planet-cnc.com/controlling-s...-output-board/

    https://planet-cnc.com/using-output-...c-controllers/
    I'm not using the PlanetCNC board, but a similar control board that originally came with the mill. Two reed relays to control turn-on/direction, and a filter to turn PWM into 0-5V control voltage for speed.

    Output Pin 1 drive the on/off relay.
    Output Pin 2 drives direction relay.
    Output pin 3 generates a 600Hz PWM signal to control speed.



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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    Quote Originally Posted by queensryche88 View Post
    I used to have the same problem. Tried everything, but never really solved the problem. Later I moved from USB connecton to ethernet connection.
    Since then that issue never happend again.
    I was going to try that - but the MK 3/4 doesn't have ethernet, only USB.



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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Still could be noise Grounding and Shield Grounding need to be looked at USB controllers have a hard time with noise
    I'm absolutely certain it is noise - but is the noise causing a blip on the e-stop? On a limit switch input? Causing the USB controller to reset?

    It seems like there has to be a way to see WHAT is causing the trip, somewhere in a log file.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Do you have a Power Filter in place between the main supply Power and the VFD Drive, this would be a must have
    No reactor/power filter on the VFD - but the VFD is fed from a completely separate 220V sub panel than the motors/controllers.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    If the spindle wiring has not been checked in 15 years it's over due for a going through or replacement, it most likely is where the problem is
    It's bog standard 14/4 SJT. There really is nothing to go wrong unless the wire is damaged in some way. It's been inspected and the insulation is in good shape with no evidence of damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    So Power Filter and VFD to Spindle wiring, and the Shield must be Grounded correctly at both ends, VFD and Motor end
    Wiring from sub panel to VFD, and VFD to spindle motor is unshielded 14/4 SJT.



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    Default Re: Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

    Quote Originally Posted by aborgman View Post
    I'm absolutely certain it is noise - but is the noise causing a blip on the e-stop? On a limit switch input? Causing the USB controller to reset?

    It seems like there has to be a way to see WHAT is causing the trip, somewhere in a log file.



    No reactor/power filter on the VFD - but the VFD is fed from a completely separate 220V sub panel than the motors/controllers.



    It's bog standard 14/4 SJT. There really is nothing to go wrong unless the wire is damaged in some way. It's been inspected and the insulation is in good shape with no evidence of damage.



    Wiring from sub panel to VFD, and VFD to spindle motor is unshielded 14/4 SJT.
    You can not use a VFD Drive without a Shielded cable from the VFD Drive to the Motor, that being said it can be done with twisted wires and put inside a conduit that has a metal lining, this acts like a shield it must be Grounded though

    You should also have a EMI Power Filter before the VFD on the Input Power supply

    If you have a separate sub panel this is not a good idea, as you most likely have a Ground loop, by doing this setup You can only have ( 1 ) Ground source

    USB cables can be a problem, if it is double shielded with ferrites at each end you should not have a problem with that

    So it looks like you have a lot of possible problems

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code-usb-cable-png  
    Mactec54


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Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code

Spindle won't stay on, software stops while running code