Reply with QuoteOriginally Posted by Al_The_Man
So I see 1M1 and 1M2 are start capacitors. So to confirm, those aren't needed when powering off of a vfd right?
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
Correct, they are R/C suppressors, I forget the actual manuf.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
So I see 1M1 and 1M2 are start capacitors. So to confirm, those aren't needed when powering off of a vfd right?
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
Actually contactors (big relays), the big black devices just below the main fuses. Start capacitors are not used with a 3 phase motor. No they would not be used with a VFD.
Jim Dawson
Sandy, Oregon, USA
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
The only suppression method I have used extensively in the past, especially where non-VFD rated (older) motors are used, is to use a 3ph inductor/choke on the VFD output, this tends to protect both VFD and the motor.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
The FWD/REV can be controlled with a low power relay into the VFD PLC inputs, the only contactor you need is in the VFD power input for E-Stop code purposes. You should also issue simultaneously issue a VFD PLC stop input.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
.. Where ever the plan is on mounting the Unit...I would want easy access to keypad etc. and the routing of wires. I'm sure you have been giving that some thought already.
...can you scan your VFD manual or some photos of inputs/outputs?
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
ok so why does IM1 and IM2 correspond to the spindle motor forward starter and spindle motor reverse starter? there are two other relays that are the spindle forward and spindle reverse relays.
is it just using two relays to reduce the amount of current flowing through a single relay during motor start?
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
The suppressor is there to protect against the arcing you get when you open the contactor when the motor is running. It will reduce RF interference with electronics etc and reduce pitting on the contacts.
Sometimes you might see capacitors across the motor - these are power factor correctors, that make up for the inductive nature of the motors, to bring the phase angle back nearer zero, so the load looks more resistive.
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
The CRs are Control Relays they switch the coil on the contactor. That way the load of the contactor coil is not placed on the computer output.ok so why does IM1 and IM2 correspond to the spindle motor forward starter and spindle motor reverse starter? there are two other relays that are the spindle forward and spindle reverse relays.
is it just using two relays to reduce the amount of current flowing through a single relay during motor start?
A contactor and a relay are electrically the same except that a contactor switches heavy loads like motors. Add an OverLoad (O/L) to a contactor, and you have a motor starter.
Jim Dawson
Sandy, Oregon, USA
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
...does this machine have any Operators Station push buttons ?
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
As Jim and I have pointed out the contactors were used to switch motor power, now it is being done by the VFD, if fitted, so you could in theory simply use the 2CR & 3CR contacts to FWD/REV into the VFD L.V. inputs.
Re wire one of the contactors to just switch the power input to the VFD whenever a E-stop is issued.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
First off, thank you all for the help. the questions I've re-asked are not meant to imply I don't believe what you guys are saying, i am just trying to educate myself. I got my 240 single phase ran to the mill, ran a new plug to the mill. disconnected the coolant and spindle motors from the contactor outputs and removed the AC inputs to the relays. I powered it on and started checking some voltages. the output of T1 is 120 V as expected. T2 is a question mark for me, i don't see it anywhere in the wiring diagrams but it looks like it is taking the same single phase 240 input and its output goes the the servo drive board. What seems weird is the output of that transformer is about 80V. the control display says:
control not responding to PIC
axis need to be referenced
axis drives not on
the servos are 120V...
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
yep.
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
Sometimes it can be a bit confusing.But we'll try to help you through this. Both Al and I have done this professionally for many years, and sometimes we may not explain things as simply as we should.
The output of the T2 transformer should be around 80V, it supplies the power to the servo drives. The AC voltage is rectified (turned into DC voltage) and fed to the servo drives. When the AC voltage is rectified, you will get 1.414 x the AC voltage output, this works out to about 113VDC. The servos are 120VDC
''control not responding to PIC'' Not sure what that means.
''axis need to be referenced'' Homed maybe?
''axis drives not on'' I think you need to press the Servo Enable or Reset button
Jim Dawson
Sandy, Oregon, USA
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
awesome to hear the 80V is correct!Sometimes it can be a bit confusing.
The output of the T2 transformer should be around 80V, it supplies the power to the servo drives. The AC voltage is rectified (turned into DC voltage) and fed to the servo drives. When the AC voltage is rectified, you will get 1.414 x the AC voltage output, this works out to about 113VDC.
''control not responding to PIC'' Not sure what that means.
''axis need to be referenced'' Homed maybe?
''axis drives not on'' I think you need to press the Servo Enable or Reset button
i stopped without poking at any buttons. I figured it was a good time to start going through the delta10 manual.
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
Yup
Jim Dawson
Sandy, Oregon, USA
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
...better safe than sorry.
control not responding to PIC...try unplugging all the PCB's in the Dynapath mainframe and reinsert them.
axis need to be referenced ..... Mode Select>Jog (2)> then use the xyz knobs to jog anywhere off the limit switches 1st...then use R for reference mode(I think) then turn each xyz knob + to start the Homing process.
axis drives not on.....Mode Select>release EStop button> hit Reset and be prepared just in case the Axis start to runway if, 1st time you have started this machine servos
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
...hold everything. Just noticed after looking a little closer at the arrangement of the Dynapath PCB's Slots ....something doesn't look right. Do you have the Cover that shows Slot assignments? The PLC broad should be in Slot 3 from the left side. Others broads look wrong too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dynapath-De...UAAOSwWnFWAXNF
Last edited by machinehop5; 06-28-2020 at 06:01 PM. Reason: other
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
...or you may have Dynapath 20 Control
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DynaPath-De...0AAOSwRYNcfJuE
Re: how to use vfd for old cnc mill
still struggling to get it to reference.
control not responding to PIC - yep just needed to hit hte "machine on" button
axis drives not on - release E-stop clears this.
axis need to be referenced - this one is the problem still. I found the procedure in the manual but i can't jog any of the axis. as soon as i hit the jog button or try to change jog speeds it throws the "axis need to be referenced" fault. all the instructions i've found for referencing axis say i should be able to jog.
i've verified all axis are off their limit switches. I'm thinking maybe there is some sensor that throws a disable servo signal but isn't being reported as a status message. did Lagun or Dynapath ever do that with lube level sensors? It looks like these are normally closed switches, so if i'm low on lube it locks out the drives? I'll try to find these sensors and short across them to just to see if that is the issue. I also hooked up air to see if that would clear a fault - i only fed it 80 psi and after looking around it sounds like the power draw bar needs 80 min so I'll bump it up to 90 tonight.
as far as the boards looking odd - the console says delta10 - i haven't noticed anything in the on-screen display indicating what control it is running. the guy i bought it from mentioned that it might be worth upgrading to delta20 because of the additional features like drip feed. I watched the machine work before i hauled it home and i haven't touched any of those boards. sounds like i should try re-seating the boards though.
