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Thread: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Ian, this is the bad information I'm talking about.

    That is not the function of PD003 at all and it shouldn't be thought of as a safety feature in the event of a settings loss. It won't do any harm either, but it won't save your equipment in the way you described if you were counting on it. I already described why in the two previous posts and also what exactly happens in a power loss resulting in reset settings. I'm not speculating or theorizing, I've already done all of this on my VFD, including a factory reset, and verified that the VFD operates this way and exactly as the manual describes.

    The whole idea that PD003 can't and shouldn't be changed is absurd - it literally controls the primary purpose of the VFD in digital operator mode, hence why it is called the "Main frequency". Now what is the primary purpose of a VFD? To control the speed of a motor by varying the frequency of the power supplied to the motor and PD003 is this frequency in keypad mode!

    Why do you think PD003 is bypassed in other operating modes? Because this main frequency is now being controlled by a different input source, re-read PD002. And this all might start to make sense.

    Anyways, I don't think I can elaborate on this anymore than I have. At this point the only thing you or anyone reading this can do is verify this themselves. Put the VFD into keypad mode, change the speed with the keypad, then check PD003. You will see that PD003 has now changed to the setting made via the keypad for all the reasons I stated in this thread. It takes just a few seconds to do this if you have a VFD on hand.

    This is has been quite the experience I must say. You are in the same boat as me as someone trying properly understand the programming of these VFDs. But regarding Mac, I feel like I'm trying to explain that when driving a car with the gas pedal, it doesn't matter what the cruise control setting is if cruise control isn't being used and the cruise control setting won't save you if the car has a "power breakdown", to a mechanic that has "repaired hundreds of cars." Seeing as how he doesn't read any of this, it is useless. Explaining everything though, has been helpful for me and maybe someone else someday.



  2. #42
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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    I can understand where you are going to......I just don't know anything, apart from what you posted, about the workings of your particular VFD.....mine does not have the manual with PD parameters just P00....P01 etc, probably the same, I don't know.....so there are some differences.

    I got a load of VFD setting info from a UTUBE video posted by Clough42 who showed a lot of parameters that you can configure for whatever purpose you need to reset from factory defaults etc.

    As Mac said, it (mine, the AT1 model) will work straight out of the box with factory default settings so I'm chuffed.

    I see on mine, at parameter P01, there is a parameter setting range from 0 to 400 Hz and default to 50 Hz, so as my motor is 50 Hz I'll get from zero rpm up to a max of 3,000 rpm at top speed......also, there is one parameter at P25 for motor series selection...….0-2 poles.....1-quadpole.....2-sextpole...….I assume that a 2 pole motor is faster at 3,000 rpm so I'm OK there at default of 0.

    I assume that as the VFD is adjusting the frequency to vary the rpm of the motor from 0 rpm to 3,000rpm, at P01 with a setting of "0" for 50 Hz I will get a frequency variation on the panel turn knob from 0 to 50 Hz...….what if I should set the P01 setting from the factory default of 50 Hz to a higher number like 100Hz.....will this then make the motor rev higher than it's rated 3,000 rpm, say 6,000?...…...I don't think the bearings or the balance are rated to go that high for any length of time......just thinking.

    I would not like to "inherit" a second hand VFD with the P01 setting at the 400Hz mark and run my motor without checking that parameter first...…..4 times the default frequency at P01 with 400Hz would make the top speed of 3,000 rpm 24,000rpm...….gasp, stand by for take off.

    The main thing is, if yours works without drama then all is well...…...If by some quirk of fate you do get a mishap, do post it here as we would like to know about it and any possible causes so we can avoid them......life wasn't meant to be easy etc.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Everything I've said is in reference to the HY02D223B only.

    I found an XSY-AT1 manual, not sure if it is the same as yours, but the settings in the one I'm looking at are certainly in a different sequence and, though the same in function, some are named different. There isn't much to go on, there are only 4 pages and very little is explained.

    But it looks like the main settings relevant to this conversation are likely P10 (Working frequency source) and P26 (Working frequency) which would be PD002 (Operating frequency source) and PD003 (Operating frequency) respectively.

    If that is the case, then I wouldn't be surprised to see that if you changed the speed on your keypad (P10 = 0 Panel keyboard mode) that the value of P26 changes with it. However if your using the knob on the front (P10 = 1) than you likely won't see any changes to P26's value unless the knob is a digital encoder instead of an analog pot, then it might be adjusting P26's value.

    I'm guessing P00 (Maximum voltage) and P01 (Reference Frequency) are the ratings of the motor, P02 to P04 along with P06 are the V/f curve parameters, and P06 and P07 are the upper and lower limits.

    If P00 and P01 are the motors ratings which it definitely looks like, then it certainly would be bad if you received a VFD and didn't set these correctly for your motor.

    If most of the defaults are correct, well then lucky you, life is a little easier in the event of a loss of settings.

    But now I'm speculating and it does look about right, but... be careful.

    Yeah, the VFD and spindle are purring along nicely and in the event of a power failure or settings reset, I know what could happen and what to do, because I've already tested that process out and understand the programming quite well now.

    Last edited by justinwol; 10-26-2019 at 12:20 AM.


  4. #44
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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Hi, yes that is the model I have.....the other question.....on my VFD, what parameter setting would make the motor run faster or slower than the 3,000 rpm it was designed to run at apart from turning the knob on the front panel etc.

    I see there is a parameter setting at P25 for 2, 4 or 6 pole motors...….does this determine the speed range for a particular motor....would a setting for a 2 pole motor have a detrimental effect if I were using a 4 pole motor?
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by justinwol View Post
    Mac is saying that PD003 is a set and forget parameter, but it is not, he does not understand this parameter at all. He understands the others as far as I can tell, but not this one.

    The warning he gives is that in the event that there is a power loss and the VFD loses some or all of its settings or reverts to factory defaults (or a factory reset is done, like I did) that PD003 will be what the motor starts up at. This is true in so far as the operating frequency will be set to PD003, but remember that the set operating frequency is NOT the actual output frequency of the drive. In this case, and I've read other threads on this where Mac is responding with his bad information, the spindle will try to start at PD003's value because PD002 will have also been reset to 0 (keypad mode) if the drive was previously in a different mode, but if PD005 has been reset, it will be back to the default of 50 Hz. The spindle will then start at 50 Hz because PD005 is limiting the output to 50 Hz and you will not be able to reach maximum RPM until this is corrected. Further, PD004 will also have been reset to 50 Hz and these two combined make for a very bad scenario for the equipment! Setting PD003 to 400 Hz will not prevent this from happening as it doesn't prevent PD004 and PD005 from being reset. In this case, you need to immediately shutdown the spindle and check all the parameters.

    PD003 is a digital data value in the VFD computer's memory that stores the value for the operating frequency, or if it helps to think of it as the "requested output frequency". The keypad digitally changes this value and the VFD's computer reads this value and changes the output frequency accordingly. This value is only read when in digital operator mode (PD002 = 0).

    Edit: Sorry I've edited this a few times, if you read it right away you might have missed some of the edits.
    Now you are saying the same as I have been, make up your mind

    As far as your VFD Drive goes it was not operating as normal from the KeyPad, I knew from the start that you had something different, the fact that it had been partly programed by someone else with a twist was that someone had a play or repaired it, and changed some of the Hidden Parameters to get it to work, which can be a normal thing to do especially if it had been getting a LV fault which is very common on these drives

    There is a lot that you don't know and likely to never know, there are Hidden Parameters used to change how the different functions work

    Hidden Parameters you can not see these Parameters without a code number entered, in your case they have changed some of these to get your Drive to function this was most likely done when it was repaired

    Here is a snip of some of the hidden Codes these all relate to each of the regular Parameter you can see when doing a normal PD programing each one of these hidden Parameters change how each function works from

    a Key Function to voltage Amps Frequency Etc, so some more fire for your uneducated knowledge of how these VFD Drives work

    pd202 = 1=2
    pd203 = 0
    pd204 = 0
    pd205 = 255
    pd206 = 11
    pd207 = 400
    pd208 = 370
    pd209 = 1.1
    pd210 = 40731
    pd211 = 65535
    pd212 = 3032
    pd213 = 0
    pd214 = 1
    pd215 = 120
    pd216 = 1
    pd217 = 80
    pd218 = 0
    p219 = null
    pd220 = 2
    pd221 = 10
    pd222 = 10
    pd223 = 2
    pd224 = 180
    pd225 = 10
    pd226 = 10
    pd227 = 1000
    pd228 = null
    pd229 = null
    pd230 = 255

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hi, yes that is the model I have.....the other question.....on my VFD, what parameter setting would make the motor run faster or slower than the 3,000 rpm it was designed to run at apart from turning the knob on the front panel etc.

    I see there is a parameter setting at P25 for 2, 4 or 6 pole motors...….does this determine the speed range for a particular motor....would a setting for a 2 pole motor have a detrimental effect if I were using a 4 pole motor?
    Ian.
    Yes the Pole setting does matter if it is a 4 pole then you need to set it as a 4 pole this is all related to your motor spec's which have to be input correctly

    In your case your 50Hz motor can run up to 80Hz to 100Hz max which will increase the speed to lower the speed there is a minimum frequency Parameter to set you can set this to go as slow as your motor will allow you to without over heating, so will depend on the fan that cools the motor as to how slow you can run it, watch the Amps also when you slow it down as they will go up

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    As far as your VFD Drive goes it was not operating as normal from the KeyPad, I knew from the start that you had something different
    How does the keypad normally operate? Nothing has changed from when I first started this thread. The keypad is operating the exact same as when I first turned it on and after the factory reset. The errors were still there after the reset. After I've cleared the errors, they have not returned and the spindle continues to works fine as it did before the reset.

    I have said from the beginning that PD003 changes with the keypad because that is how the keypad controls the output frequency and that is still the case. There are three primary ways to control the output frequency, digital operator mode, analog mode, communications port. These are all perfectly normal modes of operation, the keypad isn't special.

    Please answer, how does the keypad control the motor's speed exactly?

    I have not being saying anything different from the start - you just haven't been reading my posts...

    I have never claimed to know lots about these VFDs. I've repeated that I'm a first time user a few times.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    All I'm trying to do is learn how to properly setup the VFD and how the programming works on my particular VFD. If it is the same as everyone else's fine, but even you are saying it is working differently.

    I genuinely thank you for voluntarily responding to my post. I'm not being sarcastic. Thank you.

    However, you have not helped at all. All you have said is this:

    1. Your keypad isn't working normally.
    2. Set PD003 to 400 Hz and leave it.

    This is what has driven the whole thing. I literally can't leave PD003 at 400 Hz while controlling the speed of the spindle with the keypad. It changes as the spindle speed changes. As much as I would like to follow your advice and have tried, I can't on my VFD.

    You then say my keypad is programmed differently with hidden functions. You have offered no insight or correction to it, just pasted a long list of hidden functions with no explanation and a statement that I'll never know what they mean. And you've left ominous warnings such as that I'm going to see "poof the magic dragon" and "enjoy it while lasts" - seriously how helpful is that?

    As I've just stated, do you not realize I've done everything you've advised me to do? I'm not resisting your advice. Your advice just isn't doable on my VFD.

    So I'm left to try to figure this out on my own. Only to realize that the VFD is operating exactly as the manual states it should be and PD003 is simply the keypad's value the VFD reads to set the output frequency, which is exactly how the keypad changes the speed of the motor. This is the answer to the question that you refuse to answer. I read the manual, I test things on the VFD and it all checks out.

    What am I supposed to do at this point? I suppose just move on.

    Last edited by justinwol; 10-26-2019 at 01:35 PM.


  9. #49
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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Yes the Pole setting does matter if it is a 4 pole then you need to set it as a 4 pole this is all related to your motor spec's which have to be input correctly

    In your case your 50Hz motor can run up to 80Hz to 100Hz max which will increase the speed to lower the speed there is a minimum frequency Parameter to set you can set this to go as slow as your motor will allow you to without over heating, so will depend on the fan that cools the motor as to how slow you can run it, watch the Amps also when you slow it down as they will go up
    Ta muchly.…...would I be right in thinking a 2 pole motor is a 3,000 rpm design and a 4 pole is a 1500 rpm (in all cases?)....and a 6 pole.....I dunno….....about 950 rpm?………..all I know about one of the motors is that it is 1/3 HP 50 Hz, 3 phase and 3,000 rpm.....the other one, still in the box, is a 3/4 HP 3 phase 3,000 rpm.

    As a matter of interest...…..how many poles does a 24,000 rpm 3 phase motor have.....what would be the HP?...…. or is that a special design (bearings, balance, water cooling etc) to get that speed?

    Without the knowledge of a motor's specs in hand, but only the name plate specs on the motor, can I assume that if the VFD is set initially at 50 HZ and the P25 parameter for the pole setting is set at 2 poles......would I expect the motor to rev to 3,000 rpm, (as indicated on the name plate), if the unknown pole count setting is correct?......if the motor revved too high for the max of the VFD turn knob would I get the correct speed range by changing the P25 from 2 to 4 poles?
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by justinwol View Post
    All I'm trying to do is learn how to properly setup the VFD and how the programming works on my particular VFD. If it is the same as everyone else's fine, but even you are saying it is working differently.

    I genuinely thank you for voluntarily responding to my post. I'm not being sarcastic. Thank you.

    However, you have not helped at all. All you have said is this:

    1. Your keypad isn't working normally.
    2. Set PD003 to 400 Hz and leave it.

    This is what has driven the whole thing. I literally can't leave PD003 at 400 Hz while controlling the speed of the spindle with the keypad. It changes as the spindle speed changes. As much as I would like to follow your advice and have tried, I can't on my VFD.

    You then say my keypad is programmed differently with hidden functions. You have offered no insight or correction to it, just pasted a long list of hidden functions with no explanation and a statement that I'll never know what they mean. And you've left ominous warnings such as that I'm going to see "poof the magic dragon" and "enjoy it while lasts" - seriously how helpful is that?

    As I've just stated, do you not realize I've done everything you've advised me to do? I'm not resisting your advice. Your advice just isn't doable on my VFD.

    So I'm left to try to figure this out on my own. Only to realize that the VFD is operating exactly as the manual states it should be and PD003 is simply the keypad's value the VFD reads to set the output frequency, which is exactly how the keypad changes the speed of the motor. This is the answer to the question that you refuse to answer. I read the manual, I test things on the VFD and it all checks out.

    What am I supposed to do at this point? I suppose just move on.
    Over 40 Posts for one Parameter

    You have not even looked at or set some of the other main Parameters, how many posts would that take, I don't have that kind of time to waste

    The manual you have is only related to a 50 Hz to 60Hz 3 Ph Ac motor not on how to program a 400Hz High speed spindle so a lot of the information is not related to the 400Hz spindle motor you are using

    And " Poof the Magic Dragon ", if it appears for you please film it as lots of other people would love to see it, this is a fictional beast and has nothing to do with a VFD Drive, I was bored with your contradictory posts so put that in there but alas you took the bait and made something of it just as you have in the other 40 plus posts

    Your spindle will run just fine as long as all the main Parameter's are set, that is why it is running fine now, that is why I say set and forget nothing more to it, if you want the best out of your spindle though then you have some work to do

    The Hidden Parameters I posted is to make you aware that there is a lot more going on than what you see

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Ta muchly.…...would I be right in thinking a 2 pole motor is a 3,000 rpm design and a 4 pole is a 1500 rpm (in all cases?)....and a 6 pole.....I dunno….....about 950 rpm?………..all I know about one of the motors is that it is 1/3 HP 50 Hz, 3 phase and 3,000 rpm.....the other one, still in the box, is a 3/4 HP 3 phase 3,000 rpm.

    As a matter of interest...…..how many poles does a 24,000 rpm 3 phase motor have.....what would be the HP?...…. or is that a special design (bearings, balance, water cooling etc) to get that speed?

    Without the knowledge of a motor's specs in hand, but only the name plate specs on the motor, can I assume that if the VFD is set initially at 50 HZ and the P25 parameter for the pole setting is set at 2 poles......would I expect the motor to rev to 3,000 rpm, (as indicated on the name plate), if the unknown pole count setting is correct?......if the motor revved too high for the max of the VFD turn knob would I get the correct speed range by changing the P25 from 2 to 4 poles?
    Ian.
    The Hp is easy to calculate by the known Motor Kw

    The High speed spindles you mostly see are 2 Pole 400Hz 24,000 RPM and 2 Pole 300Hz 18,000RPM there are some 4Pole 800Hz 24,000 RPM or 4 Pole 400Hz 12,000 RPM

    The Pole setting in most VFD Drive will be a default of 4Pole or may be worded as ( 2 Pole Pairs ) don't be confused by this, so for your 3000 RPM motor you would set it for 2 Pole or ( 1 Pole Pair )

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Great, I will sleep soundly with that knowledge....thanks for your time.

    On the 2 motors I have the HP and Kw are stated on the name plate along with the rpm...... probably all I need to know for practical applications.
    Ian.



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Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

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Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors