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Thread: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    I'm glad I stuck with this conversation as I'm gathering that it is really important exactly how I'm varying the speed of the spindle to avoid damaging the spindle.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You are able to change the speeds in any mode be cause you are not using any of the drive defaults
    I did a factory reset (though you said that was not advisable). So all my settings, except for the ones listed in a previous post are the drive defaults.


    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    With using the KeyPad only

    Jumper J1 would be in 2-4 position I think this is the part you have not been changing to do a normal Keypad up down arrow use

    PD001=0
    PD002=0
    PD001 and PD002 are both set to 0. As this discussion has gone on, I've only been using keypad mode (digital operator mode). Jumper J1 has only three pins. The manual states this:

    "Please short circuit the 2-3 foot of J1 terminal when using the board potentiometer." PD002 = 1, PD070 = 1.
    "Please short circuit the 1-2 foot of J1 terminal when using the external connection potentiometer or external power supply." PD002 = 1, PD070 = 1.

    Jump J1 is currently shorting 2-3 because I have not used an external source, only the VFD's potentiometer. But for this discussion, I have switched to using only keypad mode. Even so, as stated in the manual, the "operating frequency" will be set using the potentiometer in the range set with PD070. In my case the manual says to set PD070 = 1 which is 0-5V, because that is the analog input of the potentiometer on the VFD itself.

    I am currently unable to change the speed of the spindle without changing the "operating frequency" either with the keypad or the potentiometer on the front of the VFD. You are saying this is bad for the spindle and will damage it? If the "operating frequency" is supposed to be locked at 400 Hz, how does the VFD change the speed? Adjusting current or voltage? Even if this is the case, I have not found out how to do it this way.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by justinwol View Post
    I'm glad I stuck with this conversation as I'm gathering that it is really important exactly how I'm varying the speed of the spindle to avoid damaging the spindle.



    I did a factory reset (though you said that was not advisable). So all my settings, except for the ones listed in a previous post are the drive defaults.




    PD001 and PD002 are both set to 0. As this discussion has gone on, I've only been using keypad mode (digital operator mode). Jumper J1 has only three pins. The manual states this:

    "Please short circuit the 2-3 foot of J1 terminal when using the board potentiometer." PD002 = 1, PD070 = 1.
    "Please short circuit the 1-2 foot of J1 terminal when using the external connection potentiometer or external power supply." PD002 = 1, PD070 = 1.

    Jump J1 is currently shorting 2-3 because I have not used an external source, only the VFD's potentiometer. But for this discussion, I have switched to using only keypad mode. Even so, as stated in the manual, the "operating frequency" will be set using the potentiometer in the range set with PD070. In my case the manual says to set PD070 = 1 which is 0-5V, because that is the analog input of the potentiometer on the VFD itself.

    I am currently unable to change the speed of the spindle without changing the "operating frequency" either with the keypad or the potentiometer on the front of the VFD. You are saying this is bad for the spindle and will damage it? If the "operating frequency" is supposed to be locked at 400 Hz, how does the VFD change the speed? Adjusting current or voltage? Even if this is the case, I have not found out how to do it this way.
    Yes I put a 4 my mistake, it should of been a 2-3 is the normal Default jumper connections

    For Pot use the J1 jumper was changed some years ago to have connection as 1-2 so I believe you have a very old Huangang VFD Drive or they have changed the configuration back to how it used to be, that is why we are seeing you have a different KeyPad setup operation it has been at least 6 years since they worked that way I always wondered why they changed them

    This does not change the fact that your lack of understanding of how important the Parameter are and the PD003 is one of the main Parameters to set correct

    And yes of course you can set it as you please but the day will come when you have a problem and poof the magic dragon will appear

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Ah Ha....so it's a spark at the wall switch that you have to prevent by NOT hot plugging in or out a plug...….never done that, and it would be difficult as our plugs really stick in the wall socket tight, and it's highly dangerous too for breaking a circuit.

    On the UPS path, the one I have, which is quite modest, is rated to supply for 1 hour 220 volts at 10 amps, so if the VFD needs backing up that would do the trick plenty well.....the motor for the VFD is only 3/4 HP 3 phase......probably 4 amps at most.

    We do on occasion get mains spikes from someone switching a heavy load on somewhere down the line, and sometimes the Earth trip does trip out for no apparent reason.

    They are fitted as part of the mains supply safety requirement and will trip at 10 Ma leakage to earth .....you can't disable it even if you wanted to.

    BTW, on the PD003 VFD thing......reading about the varying speed control in the last post I though the speed was controlled by the round knob on the front....at least mine does...….I won't get into that discussion, just watching to see the outcome.
    Ian.
    I would never suggest to anyone to even try to disable a GFCI they are there to help keep you safe

    What you can do is run a dedicated line that is not GFCI protected if you have a tripping problem

    10 amps may not do the trick if your motor is 4 amps the VFD will be more than double that because you are on single Phase and not 3ph

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    This does not change the fact that your lack of understanding of how important the Parameter are and the PD003 is one of the main Parameters to set correct

    And yes of course can set it as you please but the day will come when you have a problem and poof the magic dragon will appear
    This is exactly why I'm persisting on making sure I do understand PD003 properly first before I begin operating the spindle. Definitely don't want to see the magic dragon!


    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    For Pot use the J1 jumper was changed some years ago to have connection as 1-2 so I believe you have a very old Huangang VFD Drive or they have changed the configuration back to how it used to be, that is why we are seeing you have a different KeyPad setup operation it has been at least 6 years since they worked that way I always wondered why they changed them
    Putting the jumper from 1-2 or 2-3 does not change the keypad's operation for me. Also, the VFD's pot only works on 2-3 (which is what the manual says). With either jumper setting, the keypad UP or DOWN arrows change the frequency and PD003 (PD001 = 0 and PD002 = 0). This is consistent with what the manual is saying. The manual says that the jumper is for PD002 = 1 mode, it just changes the circuit from the VFD's pot to an external source. As a test, if I set J1 to 1-2, with PD003 = 400 and I have no external source connected, it sees ~0V and starts up at 100 Hz (PD073 = 100). I'm not seeing how PD003 = 400 is impacting "external terminal" mode (PD002 = 1) at all.

    My main concern and what I'm hoping to properly understand is this. You've warned me (and I'm inclined to heed your warning because of the experience you've cited and the fact that I have none) that operating the spindle at less than 400 Hz will eventually damage the spindle. How does the VFD control the speed of the spindle without varying the "operating frequency"? Even if I set PD003 = 400, then switch to PD002 = 1 (external terminal mode) with Jumper J1 on 2-3 (VFD's potentiometer) and use the pot to change the speed of the spindle the "operating frequency" is changing with the pot. You can see this on the VFD's display.

    If the spindle must run always at 400 Hz, how does it change speed? Why do we set a min and max "operating frequency"?

    I'm trying very hard to understand this properly. Very glad to have your help in all this.

    Last edited by justinwol; 10-23-2019 at 07:47 PM.


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    No need to be so down in the mouth Justin.....Mac knows you're confused by this time......just like me.

    I just deleted this post and re-wrote it as I think my VFD is different to the one being discussed......possibly it works the same way but I mostly don't understand what is actually being said.....my need is for a 3 phase motor as opposed to a 24,000 water cooled motor.

    I'm going by the video on UTUBE by CLOUGH 42 where he very clearly explains with infinite detail the parameter settings on a VFD for a 3 phase motor and why you would want to etc.

    BTW....what type of motor is the watercooled 24,000 rpm one you have?....it can't be a brushless one, Mac tells me that you cannot run a brushless motor on a VFD......very understandable...….as far as I know that requires an ESC type.
    Ian.

    Last edited by handlewanker; 10-24-2019 at 01:38 AM.


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Well after lots of studying of the manual and testing of the VFD and spindle, I think I've got it sorted. However, I'm not sure you're going to like everything I'm going to write here (be gentle!).

    Also, before I get going, just a quick disclaimer: This conversation is centered around frequency settings and operation. It is assumed the other critical parameters are set properly.

    The first thing to address is the keypads operation regarding PD003 and PD077:

    1. When PD001 = 0 and PD002 = 0, the frequency set by the keypad's UP and DOWN arrows is always memorized to PD003. After a power breakdown, the spindle will start at the frequency set in PD003. Anytime the speed of the spindle is changed with the keypad the operating frequency of the VFD is changed and it is memorized in PD003. I.e. if the frequency is changed with the keypad to 300, it is immediately memorized in PD003.

    2. PD077 applies only to UP/DOWN functions of the programmable multi-inputs PD044-PD049 and PD001 = 1 (source of run commands set to "External terminal") and only if a couple of these are programmed to the UP (27) and DOWN (28) functions as they are not programmed to any multi-input terminals by default. In PD077 the manual says, "For the related parameters refer to PD044-PD049." Under the UP/DOWN functions (27 and 28) the manual says that "when the power is up again after the power breakdown the changed frequency will not be memorized." This is because the factory setting for the governing parameter PD077 is 0. As the manual states "When PD077 is set to 0, the changed value will not be memorized and when it is set to 1, the changed values will be memorized. The set values of PD003 will be memorized after restart." This is why setting PD077 to 0 or 1 has no affect on the keypad's operation. With either setting the keypad still sets PD003.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    (4) When both UP and DOWN terminals are closed at the same time the frequency will neither increase nor decrease. It is regarded as invalid.

    (5) When the frequency reaches the max operating frequency it will stop increasing.

    (6) When the frequency reaches the min frequency or its lower limit, it will stop decreasing.

    (7) After a power breakdown the set value of PD003 will be memorized instead of the frequency.

    (8) When using the function of UP and DOWN, the keys of the panel are valid. After changing the values it needs to press SET (ENTER) key for confirmation and then the inverter can implement the action. Meanwhile the value will write to PD003, which will be memorized after a power breakdown.

    (9) When keeping pressing UP or DOWN the frequency will increase or decrease rapidly to a point and then increase or decrease at even speed.

    (10) The value changed by UP or DOWN can be set through PD077 for confirmation of whether it should be memorized or not memorized. For details refer to PD077.
    These notes are for the UP/DOWN multi-function input terminals programmable functions. They are not for the keypads up and down arrows.

    So with keypad use only, setting PD003 in the PRGM menu is only the initial setting. Once the UP and DOWN arrows on the keypad are used to change the frequency of the spindle, PD003 is immediately updated each time. If the multi-function terminals are used and two of them are programmed to functions UP and DOWN, then the operating frequency can be memorized to PD003 (PD077 = 1) each time these terminals are closed to change the frequency. Otherwise if PD077 = 0, the set value of PD003 will be used on restart after power breakdown. However, if PD003 is set below PD011 (lower limit), PD011 overrides PD003 - more about this below. PD077 does not apply to digital operator mode.

    Next is the central items to this conversation - PD003 and running the spindle below max frequency.

    The "operating frequency" is what sets the speed of the spindle. PD003 is the operating frequency when in digital operator mode or when using the UP/DOWN functions of the multi-function input terminals. The value of PD003 always changes with digital operator mode keypad up and down arrows, but when using the multi-function input UP/DOWN functions, PD003 may stay at a set value if PD077 = 0, or change when these inputs are closed if PD077 = 1.

    This is what I don't think you'll like and feel free to tell me to say hello to my new friend, puff the magic dragon: PD003 has nothing to do with the safe operation of these spindles. It is simply the operating frequency of the inverter which is changed through a variety of ways to control the speed of the spindle. These spindles are designed to operate safely within a frequency range. In my case 100-400 Hz or 6000-24000 RPM. Setting the operating frequency outside of this range will damage the spindle over time.

    In order to ensure the spindle isn't operated outside its designed frequency range, PD004 is set to the motors rated frequency, P005 is set to the max operating frequency and PD011 is set the lower limit frequency as the manual says, "This is set for preventing workers from false operation to avoid over-heat or some other mechanical faults, which might be caused due to too low operating frequency." PD005 along with PD006-PD010 need to be set with an appropriate V/F curve or damage to the spindle can occur.

    Some examples of PD011 overriding PD003. In digital operator mode PD001 = 0 and PD002 = 0, PD011 = 100 and PD003 = 50, when RUN is pressed the spindle spins up to 100 Hz. Likewise, in external terminal mode PD002 = 1, PD003 = 400 (though it is not used here, but set to show it is bypassed), PD011 = 100, PD073 = 50 (lower analog frequency) and the potentiometer turned all the way down (~0V), when RUN is pressed the spindle spins up to 100 Hz and when adjusting the pot on the VFD, the frequency cannot be adjusted below 100 Hz.

    In short, PD003 is the operating frequency only and is meant to be controlled through a couple of methods in certain modes. In other modes, PD003 is not used at all, instead the operating frequency is controlled by external sources or communication ports.

    Regarding running the spindle below max frequency (400 Hz for my spindle). Unless the VFD is running at max operating frequency all the time (max RPM), the VFD's operating frequency will be routinely less than max and therefore the spindle will be at less than max frequency. This is perfectly safe! This is what these VFDs are designed for in the context of a variable frequency spindle. The only time this is unsafe is when the parameters mentioned above are set incorrectly and an operator is able to set the operating frequency (through whatever method they configured the VFD for) beyond the rated frequency range of the spindle.

    I have tested and confirmed all of this and it is all consistent with the manual that I received.

    This has been an extremely helpful conversation and I'm very grateful for you engaging with me! You have my respect and thanks.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    @handlewanker It is a 3 phase 220V 400Hz water cooled spindle. Rated for 6000-24000 RPM. The water cooled bit just allows the spindle to operate at a lower rpm where as an air cooled spindle (of the same variety) needs a higher rpm in order to generate enough air flow for cooling. These VFDs are 3 phase output drives. They can receive different inputs and still output 3 phase.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Thanks, that makes sense...…..the parameters and settings you mentioned are totally not on my instruction sheet......my motor is a plain 3 phase 3/4 HP 3,000 rpm model..... so I assume your VFD has different characteristics than mine and is configured to drive the high revving motor you have...…...no problem as I have my AT1 model set for my needs.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by justinwol View Post
    In short, PD003 is the operating frequency only and is meant to be controlled through a couple of methods in certain modes. In other modes, PD003 is not used at all, instead the operating frequency is controlled by external sources or communication ports.

    PD003 is always in use it is one of the Main Parameters to be set and forget to what ever the Max Spindle or Ac motor Hz setting is

    Do you put a block of wood under your car's accelerator pedal because you want it to only go at half speed when you start it up, let us no how this works out for you


    Quote Originally Posted by justinwol View Post
    Regarding running the spindle below max frequency (400 Hz for my spindle). Unless the VFD is running at max operating frequency all the time (max RPM), the VFD's operating frequency will be routinely less than max and therefore the spindle will be at less than max frequency. This is perfectly safe! This is what these VFDs are designed for in the context of a variable frequency spindle. The only time this is unsafe is when the parameters mentioned above are set incorrectly and an operator is able to set the operating frequency (through whatever method they configured the VFD for) beyond the rated frequency rang of the spindle .
    This is where I don't know what you are talking about, nobody has said that there is any problem with running your spindle at any speed in it's range 6,000 RPM to 24,000RPM if the Parameters are set correct

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    What would happen if you connected the 24,000 rpm motor to a 50/60 hz 3 phase supply....can it be run in such a manner or will it go pooooof as the amps surge.....does the VFD ensure a soft start from zero rpm?
    Ian.

    Last edited by handlewanker; 10-24-2019 at 01:24 PM.


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    I feel bad after you've been willing to engage me all this time, but you are probably not going to like me after this.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    This is where I don't know what you are talking about, nobody has said that there is any problem with running your spindle at any speed in it's range 6,000 RPM to 24,000RPM if the Parameters are set correct
    You did and is what triggered the whole conversation because I decided to heed your warning and make sure I understood and set things up properly. It was good to do so because it pushed me to understand the VFD far more thoroughly than I probably otherwise would've. Here is your quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    What is the reason for this, if there is a power cut the only Parameter that will be active is PD003 so if this is set at 120Hz then your spindle on startup will try and start using 120Hz we all know what happens when these spindle try to start / run on a lower than rated Frequency
    You seem to think that the VFD will have an operating frequency of 400 Hz while running at 6000 RPM. This is wrong, it will have an operating frequency of 100 Hz. The error you make in this statement is that the rated frequency and the operating frequency are not the same. Yes, if the spindle tries to run with a "rated frequency" less than its rating it will be damaged - your gas pedal analogy. The rated frequency (PD004) needs to be set properly and for this spindle should be set to 400 Hz (which is NOT changed on a power breakdown), this is a "set and forget" parameter. The operating frequency is variable during operation and limited in range by PD005 (max) and PD011 (min) - this is how the speed of the spindle is controlled and what you don't seem to understand. You cannot set PD003 = 400 and expect it to stay at 400 (PD001 = 0 and PD002 = 0 or keypad only mode). PD003 will change with changes made to the speed of the spindle - that is what this parameter is, the "operating frequency" not the "rated frequency". As I've stated before in this thread, even if PD003 is set below PD011, PD011 will override PD003's setting to ensure no "false operation" of the spindle occurs. I've attached the relevant portion of the manual to this post. Though I don't think it will matter to you, your experience seems to have closed your mind.

    You are saying that running the spindle at 120 Hz will damage the spindle - literally, you explicitly say this above. No it will not. It does not matter what speed the spindle starts at if the speed is within the operating frequency range of the spindle, in my case 100 Hz (6000 RPM) to 400 Hz (24000 RPM) and PD004 is properly set to 400 Hz (the rated frequency). The VFD changes the speed of the spindle by changing the operating frequency and in some modes PD003 is used to set initial speed on RUN or store changes made to it, thus controlling the speed of the spindle. You don't seem to understand that the spindle will also start at 120 Hz in PD002 = 1 (when PD003 is bypassed), if the potentiometer on the VFD is set to 120 Hz, so long as 120 Hz is above PD073 (min analog operating frequency). "Set to" literally just means turning the knob on the front of the VFD. Internally this supplies a voltage from 0-5V (PD070 = 1) which is interpreted through the operating frequency range limiting parameters, PD072 and PD073, setting the current operating frequency. This is perfectly fine and normal operation.

    When I ask you how the VFD changes the spindle speed, you don't answer. You just keep stating the same thing with no supporting arguments and an underline does not make the statement more meaningful - arguments supporting it do:
    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    PD003 is always in use it is one of the Main Parameters to be set and forget to what ever the Max Spindle or Ac motor Hz setting is
    Thanks for your help, I'm sure you know a lot about these things, but your information on PD003 and the operating frequency for the HY02D223B is not good. You seem to be setting PD003 (operating frequency) to the max rated frequency as a "best practice" then changing to modes that change the operating frequency anyways. I think what is confusing you is that in this case PD003 will stay at 400 Hz because it is bypassed and not changed/used in other modes like PD002 = 1. However, you seem to think this is doing something important, it is doing nothing.

    I leave this here for anybody else coming through to read. Just remember that Mac has "done hundreds of them and repaired them also," while this is my first VFD. Decide for yourself.

    This is clearly the end of the conversation, I will not participate anymore,
    Good bye.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors-pd003-pd004-jpg  
    Last edited by justinwol; 10-24-2019 at 02:07 PM.


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    I can just see Mac ending with....."whatever"......my father would have said , "don't come crying to me when you burn your fingers" etc.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Quote Originally Posted by justinwol View Post
    I feel bad after you've been willing to engage me all this time, but you are probably not going to like me after this.



    You did and is what triggered the whole conversation because I decided to heed your warning and make sure I understood and set things up properly. It was good to do so because it pushed me to understand the VFD far more thoroughly than I probably otherwise would've. Here is your quote:


    You seem to think that the VFD will have an operating frequency of 400 Hz while running at 6000 RPM. This is wrong, it will have an operating frequency of 100 Hz. The error you make in this statement is that the rated frequency and the operating frequency are not the same. Yes, if the spindle tries to run with a "rated frequency" less than its rating it will be damaged - your gas pedal analogy. The rated frequency (PD004) needs to be set properly and for this spindle should be set to 400 Hz (which is NOT changed on a power breakdown), this is a "set and forget" parameter. The operating frequency is variable during operation and limited in range by PD005 (max) and PD011 (min) - this is how the speed of the spindle is controlled and what you don't seem to understand. You cannot set PD003 = 400 and expect it to stay at 400 (PD001 = 0 and PD002 = 0 or keypad only mode). PD003 will change with changes made to the speed of the spindle - that is what this parameter is, the "operating frequency" not the "rated frequency". As I've stated before in this thread, even if PD003 is set below PD011, PD011 will override PD003's setting to ensure no "false operation" of the spindle occurs. I've attached the relevant portion of the manual to this post. Though I don't think it will matter to you, your experience seems to have closed your mind.

    You are saying that running the spindle at 120 Hz will damage the spindle - literally, you explicitly say this above. No it will not. It does not matter what speed the spindle starts at if the speed is within the operating frequency range of the spindle, in my case 100 Hz (6000 RPM) to 400 Hz (24000 RPM) and PD004 is properly set to 400 Hz (the rated frequency). The VFD changes the speed of the spindle by changing the operating frequency and in some modes PD003 is used to set initial speed on RUN or store changes made to it, thus controlling the speed of the spindle. You don't seem to understand that the spindle will also start at 120 Hz in PD002 = 1 (when PD003 is bypassed), if the potentiometer on the VFD is set to 120 Hz, so long as 120 Hz is above PD073 (min analog operating frequency). "Set to" literally just means turning the knob on the front of the VFD. Internally this supplies a voltage from 0-5V (PD070 = 1) which is interpreted through the operating frequency range limiting parameters, PD072 and PD073, setting the current operating frequency. This is perfectly fine and normal operation.

    When I ask you how the VFD changes the spindle speed, you don't answer. You just keep stating the same thing with no supporting arguments and an underline does not make the statement more meaningful - arguments supporting it do:


    Thanks for your help, I'm sure you know a lot about these things, but your information on PD003 and the operating frequency for the HY02D223B is not good. You seem to be setting PD003 (operating frequency) to the max rated frequency as a "best practice" then changing to modes that change the operating frequency anyways. I think what is confusing you is that in this case PD003 will stay at 400 Hz because it is bypassed and not changed/used in other modes like PD002 = 1. However, you seem to think this is doing something important, it is doing nothing.

    This is clearly the end of the conversation, I will not participate anymore,
    Good bye.
    I did not read any of what you have posted because you are just repeating the same thing all the time, you are so lost in this I don't know if you realize what you are even posting, being a first time user you will be an expert in no time if you can ever understand how the VFD Drive is Programed

    Enjoy it while you can

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors-pd003-22-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    ( Dangit, I was actually really hoping to move on... )

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    I did not read any of what you have posted
    That makes sense now.

    Summary of all this in 3 easy to understand steps:

    1. PD003 is the "operating frequency" or the desired output frequency of the VFD driving the motor (determines motor's speed) in digital operator mode*. The VFD reads the value stored in PD003 to set the operating frequency when using the keypad**. The keypad merely changes the value of PD003 when controlling the speed of the spindle. This value in the VFD's memory is not used in other modes, instead analog inputs or communication ports set the operating frequency.
    2. The operating frequency, in all modes, is limited by PD005 (max operating frequency), the operating frequency cannot go higher than this setting, and PD011 (frequency lower limit), it cannot go lower than this setting.
    3. PD004 is the rated frequency of the motor and should not be changed.

    *The set operating frequency has to be between the min-max limits or the upper or lower limit will override the operating frequency, in all modes. The output frequency and the set operating frequency can be read on the VFD's display. I.e. If the operating frequency is set to 50 Hz via any mode (keypad, analog, communication port), but the lower limit (PD011) is set to 100 Hz, the output frequency will be 100 Hz. You can read this on the display. Set frequency will read 50 Hz, output frequency will read 100 Hz and the spindle will be spinning at 100 Hz, not 50 Hz.
    **In the manual the keypad is called the "digital operator".


    This is literally what the VFD is for and how it works. VFD's vary the frequency of the input power to the motor to control the motor's speed. On these VFDs you can control the input frequency to the motor, or the VFDs output frequency, in a few ways. The mode used in this discussion is "digital operator" mode - the keypad. The keypad changes the value stored in PD003 to the desired output frequency and the VFD reads this value and implements it - if it is between P005 and PD011. (I don't know if I can say this any more clearly or how many different ways I can say it, Mac won't read it anyways )

    But don't take my word for it, if your inclined to test and verify what random people on the internet say, see for yourself. Using keypad only, change the speed of the spindle and go check PD003's setting. PD004, PD005 and PD011 need to be set correctly first.

    Personally I followed Mac's advice to a T (maybe not such a good idea), but it all broke down when I discovered (by actually doing his advice on my VFD) that it doesn't work that way. PD003 will not stay at 400 Hz if you use the keypad to change the speed of the spindle, obviously if you've read any of this or the manual. My VFD literally would not allow me to follow his advice, so I had to learn more. This worried me greatly at first and thus the lengthy bit of this thread proceeded, which he didn't read, unfortunately.

    Mac won't read this, but for others who'll actually read all this. I attached the same picture he just did, but with the relevant parts highlighted and the parts he skipped (intentionally or not, I don't know. Not sure what his intentions are).

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors-pd002-pd011-jpg  
    Last edited by justinwol; 10-25-2019 at 01:33 PM.


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    To be fair, I'm pretty sure Mac does have some good knowledge about these drives (and doesn't just copy and paste the same list of parameters appended with a "poof the magic dragon" warning), but has gone all this time without properly understanding this part in particular, because if the base frequency (PD004), the upper and lower frequency limits (PD005 and PD011) are set correctly, PD003 can be safely changed to anything with the keypad because the output frequency will be limited to the range set by limit parameters - that is the point of those parameters and the manual explicitly says this, see PD011. Otherwise in other modes, PD003 is simply not being used at all. Setting it to 0 or 400 Hz and then using a different mode like analog or the communication port, PD003 is just not used at all. So he sets PD003 to 400 Hz as a "best practice" then immediately bypasses it by changing to another mode that sets the operating frequency in a different way.

    Or he's gone all this time misunderstanding this because he doesn't read posts.

    Oh well, this misunderstanding of his causes no harm, as his experience can attest, so I really need to move on. Hopefully this helps some other first time or even long time users.

    Edit: Because this has come up earlier in the thread. I guess I should also clarify that if PD004, PD005 and PD011 are set correctly, setting PD003 below max frequency will NOT limit the spindle from reaching max RPM (obviously).



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Hi....is PD003 a fixed memory thing for your particular motor once you set it to whatever your preferences are and you don't need to change it again ever....unless you change your motor.

    That is, if you set it at whatever...….. if you get a power down PD003 will remain fixed in memory for your motor with whatever setting you originally set it at.....this would prevent you from inadvertently starting up with the wrong base settings that your motor needs due to the manual settings being deleted in the power down.

    So, PD005 and PD0011 are set at the upper and lower frequency limits (desired speed range) ….that you want to set them to......is PD003 the default that the VFD will use and refer to when everything goes to Hell in a hand basket like a power down......the VFD then is in a safe mode for whatever motor you are attaching it to…..as I understand it.

    I think Mac said that PD003 once set does NOT need to be done again ….ever....it becomes a fixed reference default in memory unless you change it again for some obscure reason.

    Completely disregard this post if it does not make sense......I'm totally new to VFD's and their set-ups.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Mac is saying that PD003 is a set and forget parameter, but it is not, he does not understand this parameter at all. He understands the others as far as I can tell, but not this one.

    The warning he gives is that in the event that there is a power loss and the VFD loses some or all of its settings or reverts to factory defaults (or a factory reset is done, like I did) that PD003 will be what the motor starts up at. This is true in so far as the operating frequency will be set to PD003, but remember that the set operating frequency is NOT the actual output frequency of the drive. In this case, and I've read other threads on this where Mac is responding with his bad information, the spindle will try to start at PD003's value because PD002 will have also been reset to 0 (keypad mode) if the drive was previously in a different mode, but if PD005 has been reset, it will be back to the default of 50 Hz. The spindle will then start at 50 Hz because PD005 is limiting the output to 50 Hz and you will not be able to reach maximum RPM until this is corrected. Further, PD004 will also have been reset to 50 Hz and these two combined make for a very bad scenario for the equipment! Setting PD003 to 400 Hz will not prevent this from happening as it doesn't prevent PD004 and PD005 from being reset. In this case, you need to immediately shutdown the spindle and check all the parameters.

    PD003 is a digital data value in the VFD computer's memory that stores the value for the operating frequency, or if it helps to think of it as the "requested output frequency". The keypad digitally changes this value and the VFD's computer reads this value and changes the output frequency accordingly. This value is only read when in digital operator mode (PD002 = 0).

    Edit: Sorry I've edited this a few times, if you read it right away you might have missed some of the edits.

    Last edited by justinwol; 10-25-2019 at 03:30 PM.


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Sorry, forgot to answer one of your questions. If you change motors with different ratings, you will have to change all the base parameters to match the new motor, definitely not just PD003. PD003, if using the drive in digital operator mode, will need to be set anywhere in the min-max range for the new motor, or the drive will override it with the upper or lower limit parameters. I.e., if you have a new motor with a rating of 100 Hz - 200 Hz and the lower and upper parameters are set to this, even if PD003 was previously set to 400 Hz from the previous motor and wasn't changed, the output frequency will be limited to 200 Hz.

    PD003 does not have a factory default. This is where the confusion might lie. It remembers its previous setting even if all the others are reset. This Mac knows as he's stated this already, but because he misunderstand exactly what PD003 is and does, his "best practice" and advice on this parameter isn't good.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    if there is a power cut the only Parameter that will be active is PD003y
    Meaning if the settings are all reset, PD003 will remain at its previous setting, not having a factory default. In this case PD003 will not save your spindle or drive no matter what it is set to, you need to immediately check all the parameters. Proper understanding of the VFD will help save the equipment, not just one parameter that does nothing in this case.

    In the event of a loss of settings, as far as I'm aware, there is no one setting that will save your equipment and to say so is bad information. Most certainly not PD003!

    Edit: sorry my example was bad it had the wrong frequency range! I had RPM in my head not Hz. Updated it to 100 - 200 Hz.

    Last edited by justinwol; 10-25-2019 at 03:49 PM.


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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    I edited the two previous posts quite a bit, thankfully as I made some bad typos. Definitely reread them if you haven't Ian.



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    Default Re: Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

    Well, I'm wee bit at sea with this as I only run a VFD in the simplest mode which is factory default...…..it's mainly just to have a speed control for my motor.....deceleration and braking times are not a desire.

    After reading the manual you posted and the PD003 parameter...……..I interpreted that function like this :-……….as the fall back one when all else had collapsed to factory default if you had a power down.

    I was under the impression that after a power down, and the VFD was back on line again, PD003 would be the only command setting that stays there no matter what or until you intentionally change it for some reason.....it is virtually cast in stone forever until changed...….and all other setting after a power down (that you have made)...…….will be canceled to factory default, so they would not impact on your VFD provided PD003 was still set to your motor requirements.

    After a power down it would be necessary to reset the functions that you want to have running.....but PD003 is not in that box and should not be altered once set.

    What exactly is the definition of a power down?...….I would think it would mean a removal of all power while the VFD was running...……..whereas if you stopped the VFD and then switched it off at the wall socket …. a safe power down...….. once you switched the VFD back on again the settings you previously made should be there as they were saved to memory during the safe switch off.

    My impression is that if the VFD was in a sudden loss of power situation there would be no time for the VFD to back out and shut down safely with the setting you need for whatever you are doing...…..hence the need for PD003 to be alive and kicking after the start up again...…..and this could happen when you are not there..... …...with a resumption of power the VFD would get back on line but without the settings you intentionally set......as far as I can interpret PD003 is the only man standing at the wheel when that happens.

    The high question is.....why would you ever reset PD003....at any time..... if you are still connected to the same motor continuously......wouldn't that defeat the function of PD003 as a fall back safety net?
    Ian.



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Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors