Need help! Balance voltage rotary converter motor 7.5 hp

[mactec54]

A HUNDRED AMPS in a home workshop?????..........wow, that's almost like a death wish......we're talking about 24,000 watts if it's just 240 volts.....there must be some serious machining going on to need that capacity.
Ian.

A 100 Amp supply is small, for a home shop in NA that only has single phase, I have 400 Amps 240v available if I need it for my home shop, it soon adds up when you run big machines 7Hp to 30 Hp

[handlewanker]

Well, in our neck of the woods, which is suburbia, any garage workshop activity is relegated to small scale 220 volt 15 amp supply.........you can get 3 phase for big air con, but for home workshop use it's not favoured for the 'burbs.

Any machinery causing noise, interference or mains spikes would soon be shut down.

Probably you're in the back woods or on a farm lot where you do not have neighbours adjacent etc.

Commercial activities, using heavy machinery, are usually relegated to industrial estates where noise is normal.
Ian.

[mactec54]

Well, in our neck of the woods, which is suburbia, any garage workshop activity is relegated to small scale 220 volt 15 amp supply.........you can get 3 phase for big air con, but for home workshop use it's not favoured for the 'burbs.

Any machinery causing noise, interference or mains spikes would soon be shut down.

Probably you're in the back woods or on a farm lot where you do not have neighbours adjacent etc.

Commercial activities, using heavy machinery, are usually relegated to industrial estates where noise is normal.
Ian.

That is the norm any where

I'm in a regular neighbor hood roughly 60 houses in this neighbor hood, we all have on average 1.5 acres lots though, the closest house to me is around 60 feet, on either side,I can have 3 machining centers running, and you can't here it outside standing 2 feet from any door, or even in the house, I can hear the compressor in one bed room, because it is right above it, but can only just hear it, it's call insulation,6" walls with Brick exterior 12" inch ceiling insulation, even the roller doors are insulated, one machine I have runs 7 days a week

As for mains electrical spikes, if you know how to wire a shop correctly you never would send any spikes or noise into the power system, if you had this problem, it would effect your own home TV radio Etc, as well as those other houses around you

[handlewanker]

As far as I know, the 'burbs where I live are zoned specifically for residential use and not commercial.......this is to prevent the problems caused by industrial activities such as waste and noise pollution impacting on the infrastructure of the 'burbs.

The electricity supply is also geared to domestic usage and not commercial machinery and is priced accordingly.........you would have to be a nut case to run a commercial activity with domestic supply charges.

At the same time our rubbish disposal is graded to remove recyclables and separate the rubbish etc.

To this end the actual rubbish bins have been down sized to reduce the land fill problems.

Oh, and the old size 1/4 acre residential blocks from the old days do not exist in the 'burbs any more......you would be extremely lucky to get a residential block of land for $300,000 now.....even with a grotty ready to demolish weather board house on it.

There is a very real drive by the local councils to invest in urban renewal as a means to keep slums from occurring.,,,,,,zoning infringement regulations are heavily penalised.
Ian.

[Jim Dawson]

I'm glad I bought in a rural farming area. My zoning is Rural Residential Farm Forest (RRFF). Any activities that support farming or the wood products industry is permitted, including heavy industrial, even though it's a residential area. I do work on the neighbors tractor sometimes so I'm in compliance And I'm only a few minutes from a major metro area, the best of both worlds.

[mactec54]

As far as I know, the 'burbs where I live are zoned specifically for residential use and not commercial.......this is to prevent the problems caused by industrial activities such as waste and noise pollution impacting on the infrastructure of the 'burbs.

The electricity supply is also geared to domestic usage and not commercial machinery and is priced accordingly.........you would have to be a nut case to run a commercial activity with domestic supply charges.

At the same time our rubbish disposal is graded to remove recyclables and separate the rubbish etc.

To this end the actual rubbish bins have been down sized to reduce the land fill problems.

Oh, and the old size 1/4 acre residential blocks from the old days do not exist in the 'burbs any more......you would be extremely lucky to get a residential block of land for $300,000 now.....even with a grotty ready to demolish weather board house on it.

There is a very real drive by the local councils to invest in urban renewal as a means to keep slums from occurring.,,,,,,zoning infringement regulations are heavily penalised.
Ian.

I agree with you completely, that is the norm any where in the world

I disagree with you on the power though, as I have property's in your neck of the woods residential and commercial, and have 1 residential property that I had 3 phase power added to the Garage, it has a 50 Amp per phase supply, they put in and has a separate meter for that line, you pay a set cost for that meter whether you use it or not, the only questions asked was what did I want it for, and I told them I had machines that needed 3 phase power to run them, if you have money anything is possible, as it is not cheap to do, but can be done

If the operation is tidy you would not even know it was there, even in a normal residential area, the power supply to my house is considered normal, for garbage, I recycle more than most, I have a choice where we are, you either pay for garbage pick up or you can take your own to the recycle center for fee, I take my own, it's simple and the drop station is only 2 miles away

[jfroux_1]

Thanks for help. I just found a 230/460 10 HP motor. It has 12 wires coming out of the motor with numbers on it. How should I connect those wire? The wire draw I have there is only T1, T2 and T3.

[jfroux_1]

Sorry, I just looked all your posts and I saw that Jim gave me the right wires connection a while ago. I'll try...

[Jim Dawson]

Thanks for help. I just found a 230/460 10 HP motor. It has 12 wires coming out of the motor with numbers on it. How should I connect those wire? The wire draw I have there is only T1, T2 and T3.

12 wire motors are normally 2 speed motors. You have to get the wiring correct. Wire per the data plate on the motor.

Sorry, I just looked all your posts and I saw that Jim gave me the right wires connection a while ago. I'll try...

That was for a 9 wire, dual voltage motor. Do not use that connection for a 12 wire motor.


EDIT: There is still the issue of limited power available in your garage. At 30 amps available, you really don't have enough power to run more than 5 HP (about 23 amps on 230 single phase)

[jfroux_1]

Thanks Jim. There is no data wire connection on the motor. But I found a 12 wire connection on the net that I used. I thought 30 amp was the lower limit to run a 10 HP 3 phase in single phase. It worked but I guess it does explain why my motor doesn’t run under load. The wire in the wall is 10 gauge. I’ll have to put a new wire. Is 40 amp enough?
As soon as I put load on the motor, it can’t run the Ingersoll Rand 30T air compressors.
When I added 42 uf of between T1 and T3 I got Vab=240v Vac=258v Vbc=250v
And than I added caps (3x35 uf in series) between T2 and T3 and I end up with Vab =241 Vac=259 and Vbc=258. But as soon as I put load, the motor stops.

[Jim Dawson]

My single phase 230 V, 5 HP compressor motor draws about 23 amps at full load. So 10 HP on single phase is going to be about 46 amps at full load.

Are you trying to run the compressor off of the 10 HP motor you show above? And run it on single phase? Or are you trying to run another motor on the air compressor and use the 10 HP as the RPC?

Do you have the 10 HP motor wired for 230 V, "Y" connected? Not really sure if ''Y" or Delta connection makes any difference in this case, but you would normally wire it for a ''Y'' connection.

[jfroux_1]

I just got this 10HP 230/460 and I'm trying to run it single phase in ''Y'' connection low voltage T4-T5-T6 and T10-T11-T12 and T7-T1-L1 and T8-T2-L2 and T9-T3-L3 to run my air compressor T30. As soon as I load it and I releae the start capacitor, the motor slow down and stop. There is no pressure in the tank. I don't have my device to measure the amp. I should get it back Monday.

[Jim Dawson]

Your 10 HP motor will only develop about 6.5 HP when running on single phase in this configuration. You are not really running as a rotary phase converter but rather a static phase converter. A rotary phase converter is used to generate 3 phase power for another 3 phase motor. Take a look at this web site, and compare the drawing to the way your system is wired: phaseconverter

[jfroux_1]

Yes Jim, I changed my rotary phase project for a static phase converter. Everything is connected the was it is showed on the drawing. I understand I get 2/3 of the 10 HP but It should be able to run with no air pressure in the tank.

[Jim Dawson]

OK, I just wanted to make sure that I understand what you are doing.

I agree, the 10 HP motor should be able to run the unloaded air compressor when running on single phase. I think you might be connected for high voltage.

I think the connections for low (230V) voltage are:

L1: T1-T12-T6-T7
L2: T2-T10-T4-T8
L3: T3-T11-T5-T9

EDIT: And I expect it will trip your breaker when it starts at full current.

[jfroux_1]

Again, Thanks Jim. My motor was connected in ''Y''. Now in delta it works. Now it is the tuning. Please look and tell me what you think. I don't know why my Vab goes lower at 233 volts.

	Cp (T1-T3)	Cp (T2-T3)	Cp (T1-T2)	ab (T1-T2)	ac (T1-T3)	bc (T2-T3)
no load	21	0	0	238	229	222
no load	35	0	0	238	232	226
no load	70	0	0	238	239	232
no load	105	0	0	238	246	237
no load	126	0	0	238	250	241
no load	147	0	0	238	254	244
no load	157	0	0	239	258	247
no load	168	0	0	239	259	256
no load	157	49	0	239	258	258
no load	157	66	0	239	259	267
underload	157	49	0	233	241	242

[Jim Dawson]

Looks pretty good. Your voltage balance should be fine for a compressor motor or just about any 3 phase motor. You could play with the balance a bit more to get the legs closer when loaded, but your loaded voltage looks OK given the end use and your limited power. Now the real question is what will happen when the compressor comes up to pressure?

[jfroux_1]

so far so good. But I can't operate with the starter relay... I have to use the manual switch to activate the start capacitor. 120 psi stop and start ok.

[Jim Dawson]

Sounds like you have an almost full operating system. It's been a long process getting to this point. Congratulations !

[jfroux_1]

Full load I get T1-T2 231v T2-T3 232v and T1-T3 249v. I'm not sure what to do to get better balance. The starter relay didn't work because I first did a mistake when I connected it. Everything is working nice. I can't go higher than 130 psi. Maybe the head is damaged or the gauge.. but the safety pressure doesn't release any air. I'm not sure what CFM I'm getting with this head compressor T30 from Ingersoll. The 3 phase 10 HP gives about 6.5 HP on single phase and the pulley on the motor is 5 1/4 and the RPM of the motor in 1750 rpm. If someone know, please let me know