PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

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Thread: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

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    Default PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    I have a CNC-based Arduino UNO with GRBL already set up and controlled by bCNC application (version 0.9.5 with Python 2.7.12), all running on Windows 10 (64bit) perfectly. Limit sensors operate in the 3 axes.


    To test, performed the self-leveling of a plate in bCNC the probe function getting the expected result.
    Initially I got to test the Universal Gcode Sender controller but due to its simplicity concluded that the bCNC provides better benefits (self-leveling).


    I have questions about which PCB designer adopt or that is compatible with the formats that can be imported into bCNC, including the .ngc, .gcode, .dxf and .svg.


    I had some PCBs designed in Fritzing, which can export only the .svg and GERBER (RS-274X) formats, ie the Fritzing has strong limitation options for exporting to bCNC. Even with the .svg format in common, the bCNC is not opening images in this format.


    Some tests were done in Inkscape with GCodetools plugin and could generate some .ngc files that were imported by bCNC but none of these files were my PCBs from the Fritzing. They were just random drawings.


    So, I'm looking for a PCB designer that can generate .gcode or .ngc to be imported by bCNC. I avoid tools that have a limited time of use because nothing good would my 30-day trial if I have the CNC indefinitely.


    Someone could make a suggestion?

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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    PCB design software typically does not concern itself with how to produce the PCB by milling - the normal output of a PCB design package are Gerber (RS-274X) and drill files. On the other hand, CNC controllers like bCNC or UGS typically don't directly interpret Gerber files, but expect GCode instead. There are of course exceptions - for instance I know there is some sort of plugin / tool for Eagle that produces gcode, although I'm not familiar with the details since I'm not using Eagle. I have no idea whether KiCAD has anything similar. Taking your PCB through other intermediate formats like dxf, svg or similar is not really a good idea.

    That said, there are a number of tools specialized to bridge the gap, take in Gerber and produce gcode; Visolate, Line Grinder and FlatCAM are just the ones I know of. You can also give GCAM Special Edition (download) a try if you like, it's not specifically meant for Gerber-to-gcode but since it can do that too and I'm its maintainer I figured I'd mention it. All of these only create the appropriate gcode file, so you still need to use whatever sender you prefer (bCNC or other) to actually do the milling.



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    Thank you. I will try. It was not clear to me how I can run or install GCAM.

    Last edited by asasergio; 10-26-2016 at 02:10 PM.


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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    Oh, it just needs to be unzipped anywhere you like, no special installation required...



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    Is GCAM Special Edition (download) for Windows? What is the executable?



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    I linked the page to the (download) bit, but it was easy to miss: https://github.com/blinkenlight/GCAM/releases The first zip link on the top of the page (gcam-se-win32-2015.05.13.zip).



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    There seems to be incompatibility between GCAM and Gerber files that Fritzing generates (Extended Gerber RS-274X, .gm1, .gbl .gtl .gbs .gbo .gto).
    Trying to open the file xxx_copperBottom.gbl in GCAM resulted in "Error: Something went wrong - failed to import the file."

    I then also tried to open the same file with FlatCAM and nothing happened, or the file was not opened but FlatCAM did not generate an error message.

    I checked that the standard file extension is Geber .gbr.



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    Yes, that sort of thing is a real possibility, unfortunately - rarely does the Gerber parser get implemented 100% in non-commercial software; it's a rather complicated specification. It did make me curious though - I can't promise anything, but if the Gerber file in question is available somewhere I'd be interested in taking a look at it to see what might make it fail...



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    You can test the Extended Gerber (RS-274-X) files set that the Fritzing generates for production, a simple example of PCB of a Voltage Regulator.



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    Ok, there are two problems here - first, you probably tried to simply "open" the Gerber file in GCAM; that won't work, because GCAM can only "open" its own project files, other things need to be "imported" into an existing project ("Import Gerber" is in the same "File" menu, but you have to create a new project first)... The second (and actually problematic) thing is that the PCB I looked at had a large copper "area" out of which everything else was "carved out" of. While milling a PCB will generally indeed result in this sort of thing, the PCB design itself should only contain the actual, useful tracks but not the remaining copper around them; it's not needed in the Gerber file, and in this case it's actually harmful (because it's a large, weird shaped polygon that GCAM does not know how to "paint", and I'm ashamed to admit it actually seems to crash GCAM - I edited it out manually of the Gerber and then it worked fine). So if Fritzing can generate layouts where the _surrounding_ extra copper is _not_ included, it looks like GCAM would actually work. I have no idea if Fritzing can do that or not...

    In other words, this is the original. This will not work:
    Clipboard-1.jpg

    This is my edited version. This would work:
    Clipboard-2.jpg



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    To generate a PCB gcode, "traces" should be where we do not want copper.

    So, I thought, the gcode would have to match the black lines of
    Clipboard-1.jpg



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    In the resulting gcode, yes. In the source Gerbers, no. That's exactly what each of these "gerber-to-gcode" programs do (well, aside that the file formats themselves are different): they all "trace around" the features defined in the Gerber file, according to the settings you supply (e.g. how thick your milling bit is - a quite important detail if you want the final PCB to match what you designed originally). Even in the example with the "black lines" - those aren't really there, all the _other_ (colorful) parts are; the "black lines" are just the space that remains between the traces / pads described in the file and the large polygons of the "rest of the copper", the "black space" is not actually described by the file at all. In contrast, the generated gcode will indeed contain paths somewhat similar to those "lines" - it's actually a bit more complicated than that if you mill multiple passes for a "thicker" groove using a thinner mill bit. This image of GCAM doing multiple contours around an imaginary piece of PCB illustrates this (of course, you can always just do one single contour for a thinner "groove"):
    windows-7-screenshot-4.png



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    To make it even easier to understand, this is a different view of the original Gerber - this is what it actually describes: a bunch of pads, tracks, and the extra copper around them (made up from many horizontal pieces, actually, as you can see). Clearly, the surrounding copper only confuses things; the converters only need / want to know what you want to trace around (just the pads and tracks)...
    Clipboard-3.jpg



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    I realize that the Gerber generated by Fritzing not fills out and perfectly defines the copper region, creating divisions between them.

    This is a major problem that can not be consequences if used in the chemical process of PCB printing by mask but makes it complex to create a Gcode.

    Consequently, the Gerber currently generated by Fritzing (version 0.9.3) is confusing and does not have the necessary quality so that you can generate a reliable Gcode.



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    I do my boards in FreePCB, then export the Gerber files and open them in CamBam.



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    I tried to import Gerber file (a PCB generated in Fritzing) to CamBam but I do not view the graphic ...



    although I have noticed that Gerber from PCB Fritzing has been loaded...



    Perhaps this problem is due to the limitation of the CamBam free version and then we have not the possibility of evaluate if CamBam can generate G-Code compatible with GRBL (Arduino).

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by asasergio; 10-29-2016 at 01:43 PM.


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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    Quote Originally Posted by asasergio View Post
    Perhaps this problem is due to the limitation of the CamBam free version and then we have not the possibility of evaluate if CamBam can generate G-Code compatible with GRBL (Arduino).
    As far as I know, trial version of CamBam does not have any limitations. It is fully functional for 40 launches.
    And I see what you are doing wrong. You are importing a Gerber file as G-code (which it is not). Just go to File - Open and open the .gbl file.



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    I use Flatcam 8.5 and had no problem loading VoltageRegulator_with_switch_copperBottom.gbl
    Attached is the plot generated by the program Clipboard03.jpg
    Because it had a copper pore it generated trace of copper pore as well as circuit. In this case a copper pore would not be needed since it is not connected to any circuit.
    Top copper loaded but shows a blank sheet so I would assume this is a single sided board.
    Copper would be inverted since this is the back of the board unless you can invert gerber when it is generated. i use Kicad and this will not invert gerber.
    Flatcam has a tool for for double sided boards which allows inverting back gerber.
    If an improper file is loaded Flatcam generate an error message.
    Flatcam is designed for pcb milling so it is easy to use. I use it for laser etching pcb so I have to make changes to file after created but it is really easy to use and full featured for milling.



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    Default Re: PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

    Sorry.

    Open Gerber Fritzing PCB with copper fill?




    ...or open Gerber Fritzing PCB without copper fill and then generate the copper fill in CamBam?



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PCB designer options for bCNC (Arduino UNO with GRBL)

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