Why Open Source????? A White Paper. FLAME away! - Page 11

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Thread: Why Open Source????? A White Paper. FLAME away!

  1. #121
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    Thanks for the interest,
    #1 this was accomplished with "coding sheets" 80 column sheets with boxes to write in.
    I.E. pencil and paper, punched cards developed from that. card reader fed into computer via Hollerith coded cards.
    Yes, we sat in front of the blueprint and just did it starting with LX = Line/xaxis, LY = ....
    The most interesting thing is that as a machinist/programmer we were required to have a very high level of visualization skills, sometimes more than the engineering.
    The more complicated the part the more drawing errors were found.
    We were the "accountants" for engineering.
    If we couldn't define the geometry the part was not buildable, so there was a lot of interaction between us and engineering for clarification of intent. Interestingly, our output goal was not just data for the machine but a solid model, solid aluminum. After all this computer stuff was merely a "tool" which is what machinists use to get to the end part.
    2# the prints usually were not full sized but 1/2 or 1/4 and the graphical aids were a circle template for cutter representation. Also as a machinist we were not to scale prints but ask engineering for missing dimensions. (easy to cheat this though).
    Note that everything was "flat world" 2D prints which we generated 3/D solids from. They never "saw" a part until we pulled them from the machine.
    More to come later,
    Brian O

    Been doing this too long


  2. #122
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    Default More APT stuff

    The pocketing routine was one of the original "internal system macros" So much pocketing is done on aerospace parts to remove weight. It worked great when needed and the users could understand the parameters.
    Then along came vtlaxs, wcorn, bsurf, dac arlem
    variable tool axis, vtlaxis
    Fort Worth cornering, wcorn
    boeing surface, bsurf
    Douglas Aircraft Co. Arithmetic element, dacarlem
    This DAC arlem has become N.C.C.S.'s NCL language.
    http://www.nccs.com/pages/nccs_home.html

    Just for fun open up the APT 360 users manual and attempt an interpretation of a routine like refsys, tracut, index, copy etc.
    There was lots of learning happening and lots of guarded knowledge (turf protecting) from some.

    You must understand that usually we only got one shot at the CPU per day (5-20 seconds of CPU) so that the schedule (finished parts) dictated that we get it done rather than "play" with the system. CPU time was $500/hour, our wages $4.10/hour. The meager verification was a run on paper on the Gerber Drafting Machine another 24-48 hour per pass. We spent a lot of time staring a listings of CLdata. Mental verification skills helped us. After a few years I was able to blow past most of the old guys, because I could speed read through the code and output. Knowing English, Latin, math, music enabled me to literally think in APT as easily as a spoken language, Then I started coding in ink, That totally blew the brains of the pencil and eraser guys.

    Here is a link to an APT file,
    The Chartres Labyrinth

    http://members.cox.net/bostosh1/Labrint1.dat

    If you look at this code, remember that we all learned some slick, cheap tricks to beat the system into submission, after all, APT like all other cad /cam systems are tools, albeit this is one of man's most sophisticated tools. APT became rock solid and dependable, it brought us the space shuttle (yes that is a old airplane (1973))
    Myself and others have programmed 1 axis wire strippers all the way to 7 axis robots and any and all machines with this tool.

    Need more ramblings?
    How about UNIAPT, UCCAPT, PCAPT,
    APT was on Burroughs, Control Data, IBM,

    Been doing this too long


  3. #123
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    I don't mind the ramblings a bit. I love this stuff.
    I got to use punch cards a little when I was in college. Thankfully, I didn't have to use them long before getting to use a terminal with a CRT. I feel lucky to be able to use apt on my own computer system, when I want to.

    When did you first get to use apt on a console that had a CRT? What kind of software did you get to use on it?

    Tell me more about 'secret' macros that guys might hide from others : )

    I do drafting for a living and sometimes wish I had my version of apt running on my work computer, when my commercial program lets me down on a few things.

    I will run your labrint1.dat program here, very soon.


    Thanks,
    Dan



  4. #124
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    The first time they took my full card deck away I was upset. then we had to do edits with a control card and the edit following, then somewhere in the late 70's they took away all cards and forced us to sit in front of a CRT. Geeze I was pissed. Still we could not do APT batch submits in the "foreground" We were always last priority because of our processing demands. We had to Estimate CPU time as there were time limits to prevent endless loops (division by 0)
    Occasionally, we could not get and CPU time because they were doing a space shot that day. (we were considered "scientific computing")

    Secret macros were the ones you developed and punched an extra set for storage in your desk, most guy were hackers generating stuff which nobody else could understand or have any use for.

    These were the guys who didn't get their parts done on time. Who got bounced out of a job. You must understand that the money was so good that unqualified people got a shot at a job, until they got found out. Management was desperate for warm bodies who could spell APT.
    Management consisted of those who could not perform or lacked confidence. Usually they assigned jobs, picked up timecards, checked status. Lack of oversight, rampant Aerowaste. Somehow the work was finished. Much scrap, A first article good was rare, Parts got finished eventually.

    IBM had a editing software called SPF
    Structured Programming Format (or Function?)
    VAX had an editor called GOLD
    I missed those keypunch operators, I do not want to get paid the big bucks to sit and type, unbelievable management decision.

    More to come, should there be a different thread? I will try the IRC things.

    Been doing this too long


  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Falck View Post
    Cool. It's always good to run into someone who's fluent in apt. I think that Brent, the developer of aptos/postp has 95% of apt360 ported to C, but there are a few things that he needs help on, like the old IBM360 assembler code. His port actually is quite useable. I used it for a paying job two weeks ago and learned a lot.
    If you could, try out IRC (internet chat). We have a channel on freenode named #cam. Here's a link to how to use IRC and freenode:
    http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
    Join the channel and strike up a conversation.
    Thanks,
    Dan
    you will need an IBM 360 green card for the asm code

    you can get a copy here:http://weblog.ceicher.com/archives/IBM360greencard.pdf

    a yellow card is better ,if you can find one please let me know



  6. #126
    Registered holbieone's Avatar
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    well I'm half way through the first rewrite and already making notes for the second rewrite things are starting to work ,i used it for one job already

    I'm trying to have the first Pre-alpha release ready by the end of September

    here's a screen shot

    Attached Images Attached Images


  7. #127
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    Very good, I will be anticipating more. And will be willing to test for you anytime. Will this be capable of writing CL files for postprocessing?
    Brian O.

    Been doing this too long


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    Hi, bostosh

    thanks for the offer ,it will be at least two more weeks before the pre-alpha release is ready

    it currently produces a limited CL File then posts it internally for ajaxcnc's
    CENTROID CNC control , limited to linear and circular interpolation motion(more to come)

    the post is last on the list but will be capable of generating full tape files for multiple machines

    thanks

    Kevin



  9. #129
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    hi Kevin,

    I've got a Centroid control on my mill too. I've been using the postprocessor system called 'postp' with apt360 located here (It will process a cl file):

    http://aptos.cvs.sourceforge.net/aptos/postp/

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/aptos/

    It's written in python. You should be able to use it under Windows. There are several posts under the 'simple' directory that are kind of interesting.

    Thanks,
    Dan



  10. #130
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    Thanks for the links Dan

    here's some screen shots of the tool to the right and the cutter location file






    Kevin

    Attached Images Attached Images


  11. #131
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    this is very cool thread, reminds me of my days at IBM in RTP.



  12. #132
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    here's a link to my web site http://voodoocnc.com/

    this is the beginning of what i hope to be A Long, Interesting Journey



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Why Open Source????? A White Paper. FLAME away!

Why Open Source????? A White Paper. FLAME away!