5 Phase/ 5 wire stepper drivers.

[hurricane13]

I have the same motors and am trying to build a driver. I have printed off alot of docs and also bought 2 working drivers to try and get the idea. I've posted the info on this thread if it's of any use. Havn't had much time lately, but I'll post any progress.
I'd be interested in any info as well.

[abem]

Hurricane13,

I been reading much about these stepper motors and I am beginning to understand. I am just confused about one thing.

As a 5 phase stepper, I understand 6 or ten wires. In 6 wires, you have A,B,C,D,E and a return wire common to all. In ten wires, each A,B,C,D,E has there own return wire. Each phase can be energized.

How does a 5 wire do it? does it have an internal common point? Or does it go
A>B>C>D>E>A with this being done in the driver board? I just can not find any details.

I have ideas about the 6 and 10 wires but until I figure out how to energize each phase in a 5 wire stepper I am stuck.

Do you have any information on how each phase is energized?

Thanks,

Abe

[hurricane13]

one a 10 wire or a 5 wire (Penta configuration) each wire is the end of one coil and the start of the next coil (or phase). Picture half of an h-bridge connected to each coil and energized either one way or the other, and the next h-bridge follwoing suit. If you search by "Jones on stepper motors" about half way down his article is a small bit on multi phase motors, and a diagram with - + showing energizing sequences for the 1/2 bridges. The Vexta driver I took apart used 5 - 1/2 bridges - 3 1/2 bridges from one ic and 2 1/2 bridges from the 2nd IC (which were mp6901) The Oriental motor documentation has diagrams in it which are helpful, but in all honestly didn't make sense to me the first, 2nd 3rd, time. Hope this helps. I'm new to these motors as well, I'l let you know if I comes across any more helpful info.

John

[abem]

John,

I have read Prof. Jones note on stepper motors. I have also read some of the Oriental Motors documentation. Jones info made sense and I kind of understood the workings. I then read a document from Oriental Motors and it confused me.

The circuit attached is the representation I came to understand in a start to make a driver.

The Table shows the steps the steppers runs through. As you can see, There is always a 0 in the table, a point where 4 are + and a point where 4 are -. Initially I thought the 0 was a don't matter situation but that does not seem to be the case. I think it represents an open circuit. This is why it confused me because Jones explanation always shows a complete circuit. 1/2 H-Bridges are either + or - and not open. This is if it is the new pentagon connection as mentioned below.

The coils in the diagram are the windings in the motor. It was drawn flat because I could not make them into a pentagon form. I made this assumption because Oriental motors shows it to be the circuitry of a new pentagon connection. This is not a type that Jones shows. The Jones diagrams also may be a possibility. Whatever the case it is something for me to visualize.

I looked at the MP6901. They area Darlington transistors used to make 1/2 of the H-bridge. I got a quote for the chip for $8.00 each plus shipping. Not to bad but I believe I found a way to make the equivalent of the MP6901. Still have to read some data sheets.


Abe

[hurricane13]

Nice layout ! It's actually identical to what I have on my Bench soldered up to try. Don't forget Diodes ! I was going to use 10, but then I realized I was doubling up, (what I think doesn't usually match what I drawn out). From my understanding, and it seeems to make sense to me so far Is that only 4 of the 5 phases are energized at a time, so the 0, represents neither the NPN or PNP transisitor turned on, I picture it as an isolation point. Then the next stage becomes energized, with another off, pushing the motor one step ahead. I guess you could say because there are two logic 1's that could go to either the NPN or PNP to turn them on, it's 3 possible states. Bottom transistor on (-), top transisitor on (+), neither transistor on (0). Hope this helps.

I'm going to put in my diodes today, and start writing the program to control the transisitors. Good luck !!

[hurricane13]

Well I programmed the atmega chip and ran the sequence, with not much luck, but a brief jerk here and there from the motor.

I ran across a very usefull artical though, I've attached it below. I used the stepping pattern they list (Fig 10) and the motor moved 8 steps ahead, 2 back, Much better results !! I figured that I must have one of the sequences messed up in the software, so a quick change, and same thing, followed by some smoke.....sigh..... back to the drawing board I guess. Anyone else had any luck so far, with a Penta Driver ?

I'm using a 24volt power supply for a 5913 stepper motor.

John

[skalaxy]

i have PMM33BH2 5phase stepper motor from oriental motor to do a project.
to drive the motor do i only need driver, how abt controller?
can anybody help me?

[skalaxy]

i can not find how much voltage should i give to PMM33BH2. i have seen the attach file for PMM8147PT. inside the data sheet they r showing example circuit, using PMM8147PT and PMM53* series. how can i use those IC for my stepper motor?

[perseus242]

I was looking for a 5-phase driver circuit on the Internet and only found ones that use microcontrollers. Having no experience with microcontrollers I decided to build my own half step driver from old fashioned IC's. After building it and getting it to work I found a Vexta microstep driver cheap and changed my plans to use that instead. I am sure my circuit can be improved a great deal but in its current state it is not hard to build and works quite well. This is my first time using this site so I am not sure that my attachment will be legible. If not and anyone is interested in the circuit I can email it. I am posting the circuit in case any one else has use for it. J5 is the connector for a 10 wire 5-phase stepper motor. I think the Oriental Motor website shows how to connect a 5 wire motor to a 10 wire drive.
Roger

[hurricane13]

Your attachement worked fine. Thanks for the diagram, looks like you spent abit of time on it, nice job. I ran into the same thing, finding a cheap vexta drive(s) after hours of working on a controller. I think you can use a "star layout" motor as a "penta" layout motor (10 wire as a 5) not sure if you can use a 5 wire on a 10 controller, but you've got me thinking again ! I may try to build it. . time permitting.
Thanks for sharing, im a sucker for "old style" circuits.

[perseus242]

You are right, I got it backwards. You can connect a 5-phase stepper motor that has 10 wires to a 5 wire drive. This is what I am using now. Attached are the connections per Oriental Motor Website. I don't know about connecting 5 wire motors to 10 wire drivers.

[tivoidethuong]

how to micro step driver with 5 phase motor

[perseus242]

how to micro step driver with 5 phase motor

The website: http://www.orientalmotor.com/MotionC...or-basics.html explains 5-phase stepper motors and regular versus microstepping. The circuit that I submitted generates the sequence for half stepping. A full step driver would be a little simpler. The circuitry for microstepping is beyond my electronics ability. Instead of just turning current to each coil on or off in the proper sequence it requires turning coils partly on. I am using a Vexta 5-phase microstep driver for this. The driver has 5 connection points for the coils. The table that I posted yesterday shows how to connect a 10 wire 5-phase motor to a 5 wire 5-phase driver. Hope this helps.

[tivoidethuong]

Thanks Perseus. Control current per phase just use for 2 phase stepper, with 5 phase , winding conect is start or trigangle. Not use this tech. I see it just have one shunt ressitor.
It have one constand current soure for one motor. I use PWM tech to control microstep. I dont know how to calculator PWM.

Thanks agian

[perseus242]

Thanks Perseus. Control current per phase just use for 2 phase stepper, with 5 phase , winding conect is start or trigangle. Not use this tech. I see it just have one shunt ressitor.
It have one constand current soure for one motor. I use PWM tech to control microstep. I dont know how to calculator PWM.

Thanks agian

Are you trying to make your own microstep driver? I don't think I have seen anything that describes the whole excitation sequence for microstepping a 5-phase motor. I wondered about doing this myself but it seemed too difficult. Maybe with the use of a microcontroller it would be manageable. I would be interested to see your circuit plans.

[huongthanh]

I wish you prompt recovery.
Would you point to the site and perhaps the links to the documentation area of the Microchips page?

I was trying to look out the SI-7510 but its nowhere to be found.
It sure looks nice way to implement a 5phase drive.

I guess PIC is the way to go.

Too bad my steppers are in penta connection this would make difficult to implement a chopper drive. Would the steppers be 6 lead in star configuration I would simply build a chopper board by Pminmo, I really dislike power resistors.

Konstantin.

Hi all! I am building a 5phase pentagon stepper driver using MOSTFET and ATMEL Microcontroller. My driver can drive 5phase pentagon stepper run at very slow speed. I want to speed it up more. Please help....

[huongthanh]

Hi all,
The attach file is my driver for 5 phase pentagon stepper. Hope that it will be helpful.

[huongthanh]

Hi Everybody,
Where are you....?

[Mariss Freimanis]

huongthanh,

I took a look at your post #37 schematic and it has serious problems. The 74HC02 AND output goes to the gate of the n-channel MOSFET while one of the AND inputs goes to the p-channel MOSFET. That is trouble.

The 74HC series is rated at 6VDC max supply voltage. The top MOSFET (p-channel) is 'off' when there is 40VDC on it, 'on' when there is 35VDC on it. This will destroy the 74HC part.

What is missing in your circuit is level translation. The top MOSFET needs 0V and -5V to operate it but that 0V to -5V swing sits at a 40V offset (35V to 40V) so level translation is required. Please see www.irf.com and enter IR2104 in the 'search' box. Open the datasheet pdf and read the circuit description to get a better appreciation of level translation.

Mariss

[huongthanh]

huongthanh,

I took a look at your post #37 schematic and it has serious problems. The 74HC02 AND output goes to the gate of the n-channel MOSFET while one of the AND inputs goes to the p-channel MOSFET. That is trouble.

The 74HC series is rated at 6VDC max supply voltage. The top MOSFET (p-channel) is 'off' when there is 40VDC on it, 'on' when there is 35VDC on it. This will destroy the 74HC part.

What is missing in your circuit is level translation. The top MOSFET needs 0V and -5V to operate it but that 0V to -5V swing sits at a 40V offset (35V to 40V) so level translation is required. Please see www.irf.com and enter IR2104 in the 'search' box. Open the datasheet pdf and read the circuit description to get a better appreciation of level translation.
Mariss

Mariss, Thanks for your reply.

You are correct that 74HC series is rated at 6VDC max supply voltage. So in the my schematic used 5VDC supply for 74HC08.

Actually, With P-channel I use 0V to turn 'on' and 5VDC to turn 'off' it. Same for the N-channel I use 5V to turn it 'on' and 0V to turn it 'off', and them operate normally. You can see the 5.1VZenner diode at the G teminal of the Mosfet.

In this application I use IRF540N and IRF9540N. I see on the it's datasheet then it can operate (on/off) at Vgs = +-4.5VDC. And actually I use 0V and 5V to control them, it work well.