Hardware store design CNC router #1 - Page 2


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  1. #21
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    Exactly... hardware store meaning your local home depot plus your local ace hardware, or equivalent. You gotta make an assumption that stores like these are more or less readily available in all countries, and the parts are reasonable priced, in various countries.

    Of course there will be differences, and the builder will have to adapt... but hey, that's what makes building these fun!

    Mike...



  2. #22
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    Where's all the CAD users?

    Mike...



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    This is exactly what I am looking for. The machine I would want doesn't need to be super huge, infact 2' by 2' would be the biggest that I would need (and might even be too big). Most of what I would be CNCing would be anything up to 3/8" Balsa for wood and up or 1" in EPP foam. I would be ok even using a dremel as the cutting tool. You guys should setup a limit as well for travel/working/table size?



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    Mike,
    Thanks, that clears it up for me then, as the only parts I can't get at Depot, Ace, or TruValue are the bearings. However, I can get the all thread, tubing, or aluminum angle at any of the above, and if you go to the housewares section you can also get those nice white nylon/polymer cutting boards that are great donors for slider pads. Line a piece of alu angle with it and use a piece for the rear and you have a decently simple, ridgid guiding way. Works a treat on the Z axis.
    It's low profile too!
    Or, using pipe or extruded tubing, and V groove pulleys you can make a decently cheap, simple and accurate moving table for larger size routers.

    The possibilities are endless!!!

    Iain

    When all else fails, it's time to think outside the box!


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    Hello Everyone,

    I just have a few suggestions. Don't rule out the skate bearings. there are so many creative ideas available that use them. IMHO you will be severly tieing your hands if you do. Most people that visit the Zone use ebay regularly and even though I have heard some comments on the quality of most of the bearings on ebay they will still beat drawer guides hands down. For those that are in the hard to reach parts of the world I would still recommend the bearings. I have seen buy it now prices of $20.00 for 100 bearings. even if you were getting the drawer guides for dealer cost you would still have a horse race on the price issue, even with international shipping. Metric countries especially should love the skate bearings because they are an easy score for the bolts and hardware needed. We in the U.S. have to special order bolts to fit these bearings, or improvise.

    What I would like to see is some "KISS method" designing. Keep the complicated rocket science ideas to your self. But also on the other end I don't want to see some 8th grade erector set science experiment.

    Bottom line: we all should have a few simple tools in the inventory before we consider building a cnc machine, not to say we have to have them, but the guys who will be designing this will. We will have to expect a small investment in tools. Here are the tools I think are mandatory.
    1. hand drill
    2. circular (skill) saw
    3. decent set of taps & dies
    4. good scribe for marking hole locations
    5. good square
    6. at the very least a laminate router and a good assortment of bits
    7. Assorted wrenches and hand tools

    Here are the tools that I think are worth the investment. Notice I said "INVESTMENT", these tools will probably be passed down to your children. So get the best you can afford.

    1. drill press. even if all you can afford is the ebay $20.00 special it will be far more accurate than you will ever be by hand!!!!! MUST HAVE!
    2. table saw. not a must have but again far more accuracy!!!!
    3. router table. If you can't afford the table saw then go with the router table at least. This is the least appreciated tool in the shop until you need it. Also contrary to popular opinion a router table will work with a good laminate router.

    Don't expect to design something for the general newbies that we can build with a hand saw and a screwdriver, because you will alienate the general population of readers that would like to build a first time machine. I speak from experience because I am a newbie. I know it costs to learn anything that is worth while. Just keep the non hardware purchases cheap, available and easy to use.

    Sorry for the rant I will now step quietly off my soap box and listen to the next speaker.
    Thanks for all that you do for us newbies it is appreciated

    Jimmy Southern



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    KISS rules!!!!!! long live KISS! :-)

    Phil, Still too many interests, too many projects, and not enough time!!!!!!!!
    Vist my websites - http://pminmo.com & http://millpcbs.com


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    Jimmy,

    I've build 2 small and very cheap machines using a combination of drawer slides and nylon guides.
    The skate bearings are probably better, I have looked and thought about it but:
    I do have the tools you mention (even some more) but don't see how I could build any of the axis using bearings and obtain the same precision.
    Found several examples on the net but they all look too complex for me to build.
    The drawer slides I use are Accuride one's recuperated from mini computersystems.
    They are 35mm wide and ride very smooth, using 2 of these 20 cm apart gives an almost perfect axis and above all: it's dead easy to assemble.
    Of course there are drawer slides of different quality.

    BTW: I have a lot of bearings here, several sizes and still would like to give it a try, just don't know how to start.
    Any pointers to something easy?

    Luc.



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    My 2nd 2 cents :-). Drawer slides vary, what might be available one place may not be the next, and different manufacturers have different dimensions. And while rollerbearings may not be available at a hardware store, they are available retail, mail order and off the web, all around the globe. But they present a little more difficut problem of drilling well placed holes, or adding complexity with adjustments. I have been impressed by some designs here that use roller bearings and flat, angle or tubular stock. Attached is an example. While this machine is what I would consider out of scope for this thread, maybe the captive bearings and tube stock are not.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-router-jpg  
    Phil, Still too many interests, too many projects, and not enough time!!!!!!!!
    Vist my websites - http://pminmo.com & http://millpcbs.com


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    CADman here .. can do drawings ... please find attachments to see if you can open ...
    dxf for older doods

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Guys,
    I too have read through the previous long attempt which just lost steam.
    I am well into building a Jgro Machine so can't say how well I will be satisfied with the operation but the plans were great. I did use the former recommended list of tools without having seen the list at that time ( it didnt exist).
    ie Drill Press
    Table Saw
    Router Table
    & Hand Tools

    I did not have access to any Machining capability but tried to accurately mark and use the first piece as a template using 1/16" drill to drill the first holes and using others to keep each piece aligned with the template as I drilled more. Center routed Dados were achieved routing from both sides. I mention all this to amplify that with patience and limited equipment it can be done.

    Now on to the existind topic Everyone's comments even Jgro's seems to be that it is not stiff enough. All the engineering discussion concerning solid steel rods also points to the fact that these are only marginally better than Pipe of the same dimension.
    Therefore a method is needed to stiffen them up.

    Along comes Spalm's Design

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12056

    The Jgro plan could be easily modified in the torsion box aera with the linear bearings inside the gantry for the design. Or with Spalm's permission using his design and adapting it for the opensource requirements smaller or larger. Spalm's problems were as I understand bedding the rails (the solution seems to be fibreglass and cling wrap) and stiffening up the Gantry Sides. Either Stringers as he has done or what about double thickness Ply or MDF.

    Please for the sake of the budding builders counting on the forum for the best posible solutions, which I know collectively we could achieve, don't have a particular axe to grind and let the discussion bog down and stall.

    Those of us who have particularly set Ideas are the ones who least need the plans for the opensource machine as they could do their own on the fly.

    Ok I'm off my soapbox now.

    BTW although I'm a Nubie CNCer I am reasonably proficient in AutoCAD.

    cheers

    Brian
    The Sawdust Creator


  11. #31
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    HI, I am glad that you guys are taking up this task to develop a good homebuilt cnc machine. I have been searching all over for a small cnc router that can cut wood and aluminum, and the cheapest I have found is made by Liberty cnc out of Tennessee, www.libertycnc.com. It sells for about $3500. I own a small part time business and I really could use a good machine. From talking to the guys at Liberty cnc, I learned that you need a slower speed to cut aluminum, grade 3003 or 5052. They sell a Trend brand router for such application, and it has 5 different rpm settings from 8000 to 23000. I do have a good tablesaw, drillpress. I don't know much about cnc, but if you can tell me what I need I can build it. I think this is definately a good thing that you all are doing here. Thanks for letting me give a small 1cent worth.



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    Gday all from Australia, I have not done anything yet with building a CNC machine, but
    I'm looking into it for next year project.

    I used to work for a company that ran a trumph cnc punch press. I programed, ran, repaired (mechanically) this machine.

    I have found some supplyers of some interesting hard where and will be looking into for some of the parts needed for this prodject. http://www.tea.net.au/

    Regards
    Brett Fisher



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    Default Dave

    Hi to any one that is out there my name is Dave I am English a cad draftsmen using acad. 14 and wood be happy to help with any drawing and design. I live in France and this will be my first CNC machine. I am looking at something more substantial than drawer runners and have found a supplier of engineering parts,hpceurope.com that are happy to supply small orders. the prices of the liner bearings are more expensive but the basic frame of your machine will be solid, there is also a dxf cad Libby of parts in 2D so you can just insert them in to your drawing



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodworker2
    HI, I am glad that you guys are taking up this task to develop a good homebuilt cnc machine. I have been searching all over for a small cnc router that can cut wood and aluminum, and the cheapest I have found is made by Liberty cnc out of Tennessee, www.libertycnc.com. It sells for about $3500. I own a small part time business and I really could use a good machine. From talking to the guys at Liberty cnc, I learned that you need a slower speed to cut aluminum, grade 3003 or 5052. They sell a Trend brand router for such application, and it has 5 different rpm settings from 8000 to 23000. I do have a good tablesaw, drillpress. I don't know much about cnc, but if you can tell me what I need I can build it. I think this is definately a good thing that you all are doing here. Thanks for letting me give a small 1cent worth.
    Hi chip sweeper
    If you have a look on the net for porter-cable routers you will find a router that is built for DIY cnc the model no is 7518 it has a 3¼ peak hp motor and is 5 speed
    www.porter-cable.com



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    It looks like we have 3 autocad users in this thread. Excellent. We'll be starting to draw soon!

    In the meantime I am sensing that we have two different designs developing...

    1) with drawer slides
    2) with supported black pipe and skate bearings

    The drawer slide design is definitely a smaller design, call it desktop if you will, and will probably have a machining area of 12" x 12" or thereabouts. It can probably be machined completely on a table saw, and assembled with some hand held tools.

    The supported black pipe design is a little more complex, but should be a much more rigid machine, even more rigid than jrgo's design. It'll be similar to ger21's torsionbox design or spalm's second mdf machine. This design requires a bit more tools, table saw, drill press, router with pattern bit, etc...
    The machining area is much larger on this machine, probably in the area of 24" x 36".

    Is this the right direction for two hardware store designs? Your thoughts?

    Mike...

    Last edited by mikeschn; 08-23-2005 at 07:41 AM.


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    The 24x36 does sounds quite a bit more appealing to me. Supported black pipe and skate bearing should be easy to come across here in Arizona.

    I do have a nice band saw, drill press, and router. The only I do not have is any welding equipment if it is needed.



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    Hello Everyone,

    I just wanted to put in my vote.

    NO to the drawer guides
    YES!!!! to the pipe & bearing machine

    I do believe that jgro's machine is a very good start but I have seen modifications that would make it better. The 24"x36" cut area is a perfect size for a starter machine. You could use the hobby CNC kit for the electrics IMHO. This would keep the learning curve low, especially for the electronic illiterate, like me.

    One idea I saw that would make this easier, is the eccentric bolt for the bearings. This particular design was very easy to produce, even for the novice. You simply take a bolt 3/8"-1/2", whatever size we determine will be most suitable, and offset drill and tap a hole for a 5/16 flat(flush) head stove bolt in the head of the large bolt. This should all be available at the hardware store. It is also very simple to understand. This would give a great deal of play to take up errors, and give alignment ability.

    If any one has a link to the pics of the bolt idea please post the picture. I saw it somewhere in the forum but did not save the link.

    With a good torsion box bed and gantry, full support for the pipe or rod, whatever we end up with, I believe this will be the next starter machine for the newbie just coming to the zone.

    I am going to try to build whatever we come up with. I really appreciate what jgro designed but I believe we can make it better.

    Watching & waiting on pins & needles
    Jimmy Southern



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    I'm looking for a good way to secure the black pipe to the torsion box. We could JB Weld it... but then we can never take it apart. We could drill some holes in the black pipe, and use socket hd cap screws. Is this still in the realm of entry level hardware store machine?

    Any better ideas for fastening the black pipe to the torsion box?

    Mike...



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    Mike,

    I like the capscrew idea but I would like to see a tee nut set in a pocket, or hole, like people have been doing on the jgro pipe supports. It would be easy to use a forstner bit to make the hole for the tee nut. You could even use a hole saw or spade bit, whatever you have. This would be much easier & stronger than tapping the MDF.

    Everyone please jump in with any other Ideas,
    Jimmy Southern



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    Don't you need some adjustability....some time back we came up with the idea of supporting the ends of the pipe with some adjustable bearing blocks.



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