Omni 1530 ordered and ongoing log of the process

[gfacer2]

OK got 6 of the 8 zones hooked up (flexible tubing was not flexible enough on the short runs). I made some mistakes so this is likely going to need some tweaking but should work for the moment. And FYI, it was a total PITA - worse than I expected really.

Seem to have finally figured out the auto tool touch off (see syntec lee's thread). Should be ready to put the spoilboard on and start cutting shortly (like when I catch up a little on the desk).

Then I can start on the smaller things.

[gfacer2]

OK, still only 6 zones hooked up but working on the spoil board today.

Working on getting some help from omni to reprogram the syntec. The factory settings are overly minimal in spots. I should be able to turn the relay on for my vacuum and dust collection with an m code but none are set up past what the tool changer needed. Even the usual ones aren't set up, like coolant mist/flood even though they hooked up the vacuum to the air/mist button.

Also the dust hood is not yet controllable by gcode though it was in the contract. Hoping we can get all these sorted out with an updated configuration file of some kind. Basically ideally I want m code to trigger the vacuum, dust collection, dust hood, and trigger a few empty relays for possible future use (air clamps or such).

Anyhow a few pictures.

I hope to get a good amount of test cutting done tonight on my regular materials.



Oh and I tried a tramming indicator on it. A little off but we'll see with the milled spoil board.









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[gfacer2]

Ugg - Ok so its cutting fine but I still have an issue with the auto tool height. Well I think its more a combination of things. 1) is the sensor and its mounting bracket are a little off level and a little flexible. Not a lot but a little. There is because of this or due to the sensor itself a bit of variation on the measurement. Mostly in the .05-7mm +/- range over 3 tests I did (so up to .14mm between 1st and 3rd) - not horrid but not great. However my largest router bit (for surfacing the table) seems to have the most variation. Its up to .55mm - which is on the horrible side. The probe is supposed to be in the .01mm accuracy (per ebay).

I suspect this might have to do with slight rotation of the cutters combined with the slightly off plane sensor. The practical result is that my table should be '0' for all cutters and as it was cut with the large bit at its '0' then all the other should be skimming the surface. But right now in testing the next bit comes in to its height offset '0' and its cutting into the table slightly (spoilboard so not a big deal overall). But if I move or alter the sensor arrangement then I need to redo parameter 3411 which need access to the vacuum grid (now underneath the spoilboard).

ok - I just checked - yeah its out of plane more than I thought (also note that it won't work well for large bits as the bit really needs to be under the diameter of the pad (which this bit is not). The steel angle that the probe sits on really should be a tube for rigidity.

Anyhow on the great news side of things (and more relevent for anyone considering buying a machine), Jack was great tonight with Albert in Tech support in getting m-codes set up for my vacuum blower and dust collector. Still trying to get a few more things assigned m-codes but they were great and fast (once I convinced them it was possible and shouldn't be very hard). So on a practical level, this means I can set up a large time consuming job and leave it unattended if needed and the vacuum will turn itself off. Also really helps you know when the job is done as the spindle noise can get lost under the vacuum.

[gfacer2]

Ok I found a work around for the errant tool situation. Basically since I only use the big one to skim the board I don't worry about the height too much. Once I've skimmed I then zero another tool to the top of the spoilboard - in theory any other tool should work. Then I look at the values and basically adjust the external shift z to match what the spoil board actually is (but using another tool to do it rather than calipers of such). Worked like a charm.

And with that I shall consider basic commissioning done. Now maybe some videos next and a full summary of the process - reflections - changes I would make - the grand finale to this set of posts (unless anyone has questions - feel free).

[djcregan]

Hi Graham. Very informative and eloquently explained. Well done! I would love to set up the vacuum and blower in the same way so if you can share that would be great. Have you tried the tool tip measure routine built into the controller F3 -offsetting > F3 - Tool tip measure ? I've never had much success with it.


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[gfacer2]

Hi Graham. Very informative and eloquently explained. Well done! I would love to set up the vacuum and blower in the same way so if you can share that would be great. Have you tried the tool tip measure routine built into the controller F3 -offsetting > F3 - Tool tip measure ? I've never had much success with it.


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No - haven't bothered trying it again. The touch off routine seems better for what I typically do. Thanks for your help with the post processor BTW. I should mention the changes I made (and I may post it in a post here). Basically I modified it so it doesn't start at home and it now turns the vacuum and dust off (on is still manual at the moment) and finally I make the head go to the end of the table for both unloading (as mine is in an alcove) and so any oil that might drip will not go on to the table from the Z rails. I've been trying to add code to move the head up to safe z at the start but can't seem to find a code that works yet. Anyhow I'll likely post the post processor here or maybe in the vectric forums once I tweak it (and try to make an inches one).

I've actually done one in inches already but I need to switch back to mm for the tool touch off as it doesn't like something. I think there might be a way in the G code to switch it to inches and then back again but I have yet to attempt it. Its in the 'good enough' stage where these things rapidly go down on the priority list.

[gfacer2]

OK - so on to some actual job like cutting this evening (and some likely will be jobs if they reorder). So my tests were on sintra (letters for signage) - totally fine, some lines where the passes of different depth were but I was using chinese bits so it might be them. I think the spindle is slightly off kilter too though. Not worse than my last one but worth noting. But on a commercial level - totally fine.

The next up was some 3/4" acrylic. Well the first attempt was bad as I had mistyped a spindle speed of 20000 as 2000. I should have caught it as it didn't sound like the spindle was on but I checked and it was so I let it run - opps. Anyhow - one fresh (expensive) bit later, it cut really nice and smooth. Excellent finish but - there had to be a but right?- the diagonals did have sort of chatter bumps. I used to think they were chatter on the last machine but now I'm not sure. I'll have to look into it. Still its OK or at better than my last machine. If anything its a good test to see if it might be something other than the machine - like vcarve - but I doubt it. The marks are consistent piece to piece (ie they line up).

I finished with an aircraft part we've done. Its a long running (relatively) job with pockets all over part and relatively high tolerances given the material (HDPE) and I ran the stink out of it. The results were OK. I was running too fast (450 imp on the clear outs of the pockets) and so it chipped out on the bottom of the pocket once in a while. The depth of the table also showed some variation but so did my last table. The biggest issue for the machine set up was that I had auto tool touch off engaged by accident and the new height for the finishing pass bit was noticeably higher. So for precision work I might need to set the tool heights by feel or at least double check them.

So the machine passed on everything though maybe not with flying colours. I'd give it a B+/B/B for the jobs I ran.

I will admit I was hoping for better results on the acrylic (or flatter - the actual finish of the edge was suberb). Still you can see all that mass in action when it jogs between parts at over 1000 ipm and has less of jerk then my old machine did at 300.

Anyhow - vacuum table seems to be alright too so far so I'll probably get some production on it on Monday.

[gfacer2]

Some pics...











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[gfacer2]

Ok - so there is some issue on the smoothness of the cutting when on a diagonal. I just recut the thick acrylic shape above in 1/4" and then did 3 different orientations. One was a copy where the diagonal was lined up on the x axis (withing .0004 at least in the programming). It was ok on the diagonal though not 100% - ie still some little waves. However when you cut it so the shapes diagonal is aligned, then the 'straight' bits on the part are now being cut on the diagonal (from the machine perspective). That introduced wavy bits that were not there before.

So I think I'll cut some diamond shapes (all diagonals) and see if I can narrow this down a bit. I have a few possibilities:

1) Old collet causing jitter - lots of my 1/4" collets would be old (ancient even) and abused.
2) Flex in the bit - though that is a lot less likely in the 1/4" acrylic sample I think. But still only a 1/4" bit. I did try it in some ultralight MDF (leftover table) and I can't see the waves though on one I might be able to feel them slightly. I'd have to get a 1/2" bit or such to test this more.
3) G-code errors - v-carve has had some issues in the past (like nesting) where it is clear that simple shapes are not always what they are trying to optimize. These shapes are dead simple so I think its unlikely here and the gcode seemed fine to the casual eye.
4) Mechical slop or variations in the linear bearings or another mechanical issue.

My gut says its combination of 1 and 2 and maybe a little bit of 4. The waves are in the .005 range near as I can tell (but its not that easy to measure).

The way to test #1 is to get a new collet, #2's test is a 1/2" bit and #3's test is basically going to be rotating the shapes and seeing what changes. - if nothing look harder at the code - if lots look harder at the machanicall bits and bearings.

I've ordered new collets because BTW not a single 1/4" collet was included - the omni selection was interesting but a lot of large sizes like 16mm and 20mm - but only about a 1/3 of them will be used though I suppose I can sell them.

[gfacer2]

As per my brother's comments I checked backlash on the x and y and it seems to be in the .001" range though not 100% sure I'm doing it right. The only odd thing though is that I moved the controller to inches units for the test as that is what the dial indicator I have is in. When I do a circle of the dial .1" in .010 steps (100x on the MPG) then I seem to get .101" - not sure if the same thing happens in mm but it looks like the conversion is ever so slightly off. Anyhow backlash seems minimal and its a diagonal not a circle I don't think its a significant contributor to this issue.

Next step is a new collet and to reorder a beefier bit. Collet first as the beefier bit is $100.

OK I tried another collet I had kicking around that looked more recent and pretty much the same results. I tried a smaller bit and the finish on that was pretty poor and also bumpy.

That might be the most testing I do until I get the new collets in (ebay so it will take a while). Until then I'll get some jobs and get a feel for things that way (and maybe flatten out the tool change sensor).

[gfacer2]

OK so no closer yet but I did check one other thing with the dial indicator which was deflection of the spindle head as measured at the bit, under pressure - that was more than expected. It deflected up to .01" under pressure along the X (side to side of gantry) though only about .005" on the Y. I was expecting less and I'm a little worried that the tool changer's weight and vibration could cause issues as it decelerates and turns. However, while I am concerned about that, the little the waves are not where you would expect them to be (just after the change in direction) if that was the issue here. I also switched to conventional cutting from climb which might have reduced it slightly.

....later on... apparently I did not actually post the above so I'll just add on.

I just tried a new 1/2" collet and a freshly sharpened 1/2" router bit (just a regular straight edge from the porter cable). Still have waves. So I then depowered the machine and moved the axis by hand. The x axis definitely is not as smooth as it could be. If I just get it moving side to side as lightly as possible it does find spots to lock up. I can easily get out of the bind with a little more pushing but I think that's likely the main cause of the waves. When I have a minute I will try flushing out the bearing blocks a bit with a long oil cycle. Y axis seems to have some of the same but not as bad because of the momentum involved which overcomes the little hiccups more easily.

[gfacer2]

Yep its the bearings binding slightly at points. I went with the theory that momentum is the enemy of light binding friction so I speed up the finishing pass on the acrylic from 150ipm to 350ipm. The cut was still smooth but there was some microchipping of the kind you normally get when you cut acrylic too fast but way way smoother for the waves (like I wouldn't notice at all normally and as it was it was just a hint). Tried again at 300ipm trying to find a happy medium where I can elimate the waves and get no chip out but the waves were slightly noticable again and the chipping was only 99% elimanated. Still probably close enough for now. Here's to hoping the bearings wear smooth whatever is bothering them... Pretty sure its on the rail rather than the blocks but nothing obvious to the naked eye.

[gfacer2]

OK so still trying to address the wave issue. I haven't tackled anything mechanically because I can't exactly take off the rails and realign them and I don't really think that is necessary.

Tomorrow I'm going to attempt to autotune the servos (or at least x and y). My guess is that omni didn't do it as the yaskawa servo have a adaptive non tuned setting which is default and allows basically plug and play.

I went through a bunch of parameters today (I am using the 2006 syntec application guide for another controller - 98% of the parameters seem to be the same and the descriptions in the manual are a little better than what comes up on the screen). So I tried changing 402/404 acceleration/decel (tried lowering) and 181 (x axis loop gain) I tried raising. Neither made a noticeable difference. I also tried the smoothing parameter (can't recall number) its disabled by default but I tried both extremes on the setting (1 and 5) and neither made a difference that was noticeable.

So tomorrow I'll try tuning the servos.

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[gfacer2]

OK I did attempt to autotune the x axis. In short it did not work. I was able to get some improvements on the circle tests by changing some of the parameters based on what the autotune put out (see my other thread in servo systems for that). I also found (and refound) 2 useful screens in the Syntec. One is under parameters and then right arrow to servo tuning. This shows you the list of servo parameters that you can I guess adjust from Syntec or maybe that syntec reads from the servopack - I haven't figured out which.

The second is the axis load monitoring (can exact recall where that is right now - this is the refound screen) but it will show you load on the motors which is useful for diagnosing binding. I MPG'd the x axis around and did not see any spikes, which would typically indicate binding, so leaning towards further servo tuning and positional errors issues as the cause. I think part of this is the extra weight from the ride along tool changer but maybe I just think that because I was always worried about that weight.

I've asked Omni for idea on the circle issue but no response yet (its only been a bit).

BTW Djcregan I'd send you the ladder file if you like but I'd say its 80% likely to screw something up. You would need to have the vacuum and blower on the same buttons as me and connected to the same i/o port and basically every other button would need to be the same. I'll still try on day to see if I can get an editor working for the PLC ladder but its far in the future at the moment.

[djcregan]

I think your right. The risk currently outweighs the benefit but thanks for the offer


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[gfacer2]

Ok so I might as well get started on an overall review: I'll start with the ordering and PO:

I was dealing with Jack and overall he was OK to deal with. Not the most responsive at times but overall in line with my expectations. What would I change on the PO for our machine?

1) I'd really think about a linear tool changer rather than a rotary unless the rotary was at the side of the gantry and not a full ride along. I just worry that it is too much cantilevered weight and that it is or will effect the cutting - it also adds a lot of momentum to the head assembly that I'd rather avoid. I was leaning that way and should have stuck to it. The rotary is nice and fast and that's what sold it but it I had to do it again I'd go linear.

The other things I would change on the PO are 1) spare tool holders and 2) a spec that m-codes be written for the controller for all functions on the controller (dust hood I had but not vacuum hold down and dust collection). I'd also add in that any function keys should be mapped to spare relays and get M-codes for those. That just allows some add on functionality in the future. I'd also just follow there deposit schedule as despite what I wrote, we just did a deposit and payment. Any confirmations I needed I just pestered or asked until I got what I needed. 3) I'd look at mechanical limit switches rather than proximity. Just a preference really.

Next up I'll go through the PO with notes and then finish with a final thoughts section and add to those as I go. After that, just ask questions and I'll try and answer them.

[gfacer2]

Size: A good working size slightly above the contracted 1600mm x 3100mm. I’ve not checked the Z as it is plenty high for me.

Frame/Gantry: Heavy dusty. 8mm steel as specs is not present everywhere but seems to be significantly thicker in key areas like the gantry uprights (approx 12mm). Basic lower frame and bed fame seem to be 5mm to 6mm thick steel. As everything is tubes, the rigidity should be excellent though I doubt I’ll ever put it to enough stress to test it.

Controller: Syntec 6MD - generally as expected except that they are pretty lazy setting it up. Ensure you spec that m codes are programed for every function that you want and have set up as a button. I would also then ask that the mcode for the coolant be set up (regardless of wether you ordered the coolant option) and that any spare function keys be set up on spare relays (with m codes for each). This would allow a reasonable automation electrication to add accessories you could control in the code (coolant/air clamps/pop up positioning/ DIY table unloader etc…). Overall, while I am happy with the Syntec so far I'd really really consider having it shipped without a controller (or a simple one) and then installing a centroid controller or similar if I had the time. Still - I think it would be easy to retrofit to another controller (for $5-6k still) if it ever needs it.

Working Voltage: 220v 3phase with Ground seemed to be fine.

Motor Drives/Motors: All seem to power the machine well.

Cabling/relays/switches: The main components and wiring appear to spec - ie UL listed - , though the estop that you use to shut the system off and all the switches for the vacuum zones are of a slightly lower quality. Nothing I’m too worried about.

Rack and Pinion: No brand given or visible - I got extra pinions for that reason. I should look for the brand just for notes but I doubt it will ever be changed by me.
Rails: Hiwin 30mm (HGH 30CA) Linear Bearings on all rails - they are preloaded (lowest preload class but that's fine).
Metal/Rubber Wipers on all bearings. Wipers could be better but that's more a hiwin thing than an omni thing.
Automatic oil lubrication of all bearings. Works fine though its a little messy as the light oil can drip off the Z axis and on to your parts. A wipe down as part of the start up procedure would fix this.

ATC: Carousel type 8 slots ISO 30 - auto tool calibration sensor This is not the highest end component. My dad thought he could do better welds and he might be right (and he's a novice). It works but the whole thing is a little heavy. As mentioned in the last post I'd probably do a linear rack if I had a do over.

Spindle: HSD model es929-H6161H0822 (No substitutions) They substituted.... It was fine but took a lot of leg work to confirm and I chose this spindle as they said they could get it. Still why HSD has multiple models for basically the same spindle is also part of the issue.

VFD: Delta 11KW with english manual - no manual recieved - I should ask about that. Anyhow works 100% fine.

Table: Phenolic vacuum table without T slot - 8 zone After doing it with T slot I got it without. For most people the tslot combo is a good choice but I didn't want it. overally not thrilled with the table. The channels could be a little deeper or wider and the 'margins' around each zone could be smaller. The biggest issue was the piping as it was designed for a low volume high vacuum system (as in a becker style pump) and not a high volume low pressure as a regenerative blower is. I've discussed this in the posts so just make sure it is designed for your planned pump. This is not an omni issue - this was a issue that I just neglected to think through. Also note, there is no access to the underside of the table due to the design of the frame so you have to unbolt the table and flip it over to work on it (and they are very very heavy). You do get to see the many botched tap holes that they made in the process of putting it on...

Dust Hood: Gcode controlled with air cylinder. Nope. Its on the controller but not yet in the g-code. In retrospect, on the controller is fine for me but I might have them add an m-code for it later.

Relays: Please provide one relay for UL/CSA listed 70A/220v 3 phase relay (vacuum pump) wired to and controlled by the controller via button and G code. - Not done as per spec - but I knew that by the end before I paid. They did have 2 relays set up for vacuum and dust to buttons on the controller and did (after the arrival here in Canada) add the m-codes needed to fully utilize them.

Spares parts:
4 x spare pinion gears
12 spare linear bearings
2 sets of reduction belts Got them all.


receipt of pictures of components, before installation. Specifically:
Servo motors and drives (with model and serial # visable) Yes
relays and switches (with CSA/UL listing visible) yes
wiring to be used (with CSA/UL listing visible) Eventually - yes
Spindle to be mounted (with model and serial # visable) Yes
hiwin bearings

Detailed photos of
Assembly,
machined surface on parts that will be bolted together Not really but enough other pics.
Metal shims used where needed No - but haven't found any shims yet. Sort of hard once its together to get any picture of any anyhow.
Interior of Cabinet, Yes, lots
Overall Wiring layout Yes - and it is well laid out and labeling is not ideal but starts out well (ie power supply to relays is good - but relays to destination are not good but traceable by hand).
Ground termination point They might have - it was fine though we moved it inside the cabinet.
CSA/UL labeling on wiring Yes - though it is almost all red.
Servo drives and connections. Yes
Transformers Yes
70 amp/220v relay No - its not there.
Exterior of cabinet Yes
Syntec controller Yes
Portable MPG controller Yes
Linear motion system Yes
Details of belt drive system No not really.
Bearings and rails yes
Close up of Rack and pinion Yes.
Table Yes
Size of table working area. yes
Plumbing of vacuum table Yes
location of limit switches No but they are fine. Though I might spec mechanical switches rather than proximity if I had a do over.
ATC Yes
Spindle model and serial number Yes
ATC carousel Yes
Confirmation of proper working voltage. No - sort of hard for a picture.
Video of test run with tool change, auto touch off, dust boot retracted on our machine (marked as such in the video). Yes
Confirmation of 1600mm x 3100mm working size on the table. Yes
Confirmation of square cuts on sample material. Eventually yes.

completion of loading into container with photos of pre shipping greasing and packing. No but it was OK for grease etc.

Delivery:
Machine to be ready for shipping within 35 days of order placement. No - plan on 2-3 months. No good reason but just plan on it.

[gfacer2]

Ok so first breakdown. The timing belt sprocket on the right Y motor somehow sheared off its side wall that keeps the belt on the sprocket. Really not sure how the heck it did that but I had heard odd noises for a bit and it is the side that was knocked on delivery.

I was planning to use it as is while arranging to replace it (as the belt really shouldn't really come off anyhow) but when I went to reinstall it, both set screws stripped on the sprocket. Luckily I am back to back with a bearings and motion supplier and they have some coming tomorrow but I will need to get it machined to fit.

I could rig it to work in a pinch but the job I was trying to dial in it a little fussy on finish and I think this is what was causing the bump at the start/finish of the cut (only on some parts).

Anyhow easy enough so far to get parts and access things.

[RUSTY2]

Sorry about your breakdown, if you need a hand or need something machined , turned,welded etc let me know

[gfacer2]

Thanks for the offer Rusty but I think I'll be fine. We still have 2 other machines in the company after all.

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