OSP5000L green screen communication troubleshooting

[nlh]

Hoping someone can give me a few pointers on setting up communications on an early 80's LB-15 w/OSP 5000L "green screen" control. For history on this please reference this thread, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58996.

After much trial and error I still can not make the machine read anything from my laptop, although punching is absolutely no problem. Decided I would call Okuma to get a price on a new comm board. When I pulled this board (E4809-045-038-A) I noticed that there a 3 jumpers on this board. Got to thinking that maybe this could have something to do with it(wrong setting). Problem is I have no idea what they do and I'm not about to go swapping things without having a description first. So does anyone on here know what these jumpers do? There are 2 6 position jumpers side by side, one says Puncher the other RS232C, the third jumper is marked P3 and is a 2 position unit.

Anyone know?

Thanks,
Nate

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[theokumaguy]

nlh,

The Green Screen generation of 5000 controls only allowed for hardware handshaking and had a special pin-out. The Standard 25-25pin connectors will not work. (Assuming 25pin to 25pin) 2-3, 3-2, 7-7, 1(machine side)-cable shield remain the same, but do not jumper 4 and 5. Instead, run the machine's pin 5 to the pc/btr's pin 4, and the machine's pin 9 to the pc/btr's pin 5. If you look in your schematics, the RS-232 pinout refers to pin 9 as "register". This pin actually toggles for every bit received, instead of being used as a buffer full command. This has been the issue in 90%+ of green screen RS-232 setups I have seen. I believe I have a write-up on this setup including parameter locations somewhere in my old notes if you require more information.

[nlh]

Thanks okumaguy,

By any chance does your setup sheet look anything like the sheet in this link http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=23 ? I was able to use a software handshaking cable to send a program from CNC to PC. I'd be interested in seeing your papers as well if possible.

Thanks again,
Nate

[nlh]

Okumaguy,

I did some checking on my cable and everything seems to be correct in that respect. I am wondering though, with REG1 (pin9) toggling between each bit, will that cause problems with most DNC programs? Do I need a special program for this? I have tried several (predator editor, NCLite, windows hyperterminal) all with the same results.

Thanks

[theokumaguy]

This might be a little long-winded, but hopefully you can pick out the parts you haven't checked and ignore those that you have already.

The jumper settings you asked about are easy to check. For the MC3 (A911-1103 or E4809-045-038) RS-232 board, there are three sets of jumpers. The "PUNCHER" and "RS232" set up the IRQ level for each transmission respectively and should both be set to position 4. The other jumper changes the board from Current Loop to RS232C format. I have never seen someone set this up to the Current Loop setting. For RS232 you should have pin 2 jumpered to pin 1.

I attached a "cleaner" printout of what should be the same information. If you already have the pins properly connected then we can move on from that. One thing to note is that you should ALWAYS use 7 data bits, 8 would change the Okuma to a Japanese transmission standard and you'll never get it to read properly. The RS-232 boards usually have a different transmit and receive chip, so it is very possible that someone unplugged the cable while the machine was on and blew the receive chip. The best thing to do would pick up a breakout box like the one offered here http://www.newark.com/36K8066/non-st...tronics-45-493
You're looking at several hundred dollars for a new communication board, so buying one of these for under $50 to confirm you have nothing transmitting from the machine is a good idea. I picked one up several years ago and use it quite often in field service.

Do you have a % sign at the beginning and end of your program? Also, check the settings of whatever communication program you use, sometimes they are set up to automatically add these at the beginning and end of a transmission then strip them when receiving. You don't want to have one automatically added plus add one manually.

If you press PIP, then Read and enter "TT:" then press write, it starts waiting to read file, does it come up with a filename at the top of the screen, or a "Varid File Reading" on the command line? If you are getting either of these, your program is reading in, but the machine never receives the end of program % sign to close the port and store it. The symptom would still be the same, no apparent data received.

If all of this checks out and you are receiving no feedback from the control that it is reading anything in you most likely have a bad Main Card 3.

[SRT Mike]

This might be a little long-winded, but hopefully you can pick out the parts you haven't checked and ignore those that you have already.

The jumper settings you asked about are easy to check. For the MC3 (A911-1103 or E4809-045-038) RS-232 board, there are three sets of jumpers. The "PUNCHER" and "RS232" set up the IRQ level for each transmission respectively and should both be set to position 4. The other jumper changes the board from Current Loop to RS232C format. I have never seen someone set this up to the Current Loop setting. For RS232 you should have pin 2 jumpered to pin 1.

I attached a "cleaner" printout of what should be the same information. If you already have the pins properly connected then we can move on from that. One thing to note is that you should ALWAYS use 7 data bits, 8 would change the Okuma to a Japanese transmission standard and you'll never get it to read properly. The RS-232 boards usually have a different transmit and receive chip, so it is very possible that someone unplugged the cable while the machine was on and blew the receive chip. The best thing to do would pick up a breakout box like the one offered here http://www.newark.com/36K8066/non-st...tronics-45-493
You're looking at several hundred dollars for a new communication board, so buying one of these for under $50 to confirm you have nothing transmitting from the machine is a good idea. I picked one up several years ago and use it quite often in field service.

Do you have a % sign at the beginning and end of your program? Also, check the settings of whatever communication program you use, sometimes they are set up to automatically add these at the beginning and end of a transmission then strip them when receiving. You don't want to have one automatically added plus add one manually.

If you press PIP, then Read and enter "TT:" then press write, it starts waiting to read file, does it come up with a filename at the top of the screen, or a "Varid File Reading" on the command line? If you are getting either of these, your program is reading in, but the machine never receives the end of program % sign to close the port and store it. The symptom would still be the same, no apparent data received.

If all of this checks out and you are receiving no feedback from the control that it is reading anything in you most likely have a bad Main Card 3.

Just wanted to chime into this thread with a sincere THANK YOU to theokumaguy!

I have an LC40 with the green screen OSP5000L control. I was going crazy trying to get file transfers working. I tried every setting and spent hours messing with it.

Turns out the cable pinout was wrong. The guy who sells the software gave me the pinout and I guess it's for the OSP5020 or the G-L control, but it was different than the pinout in the document you posted. I just pulled apart the cable and rewired it to your specs and file transfer worked first time, no dropped characters, everything perfect.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Now I won't have a sore back standing in front of that damn control punching programs in by hand And I have a backup of all my programs. Have a great weekend!

[nlh]

Thanks okumaguy,

Unfortunately it looks like I have a dead comm board on the read side. Simply will not work no matter what is tried. Okuma's wants $1500 for a reman unit and the price jumps to $5000 if the core doesn't get returned in time or is deemed not useable. Guess I'll be punching programs in by hand for a while.

[SRT Mike]

Thanks okumaguy,

Unfortunately it looks like I have a dead comm board on the read side. Simply will not work no matter what is tried. Okuma's wants $1500 for a reman unit and the price jumps to $5000 if the core doesn't get returned in time or is deemed not useable. Guess I'll be punching programs in by hand for a while.

Well, it's working fine for me, so here's my settings (I am sure you tried it but just so you have the settings from a control you know is working)

I am using this program for file transfer:

http://www.connectcnc-dnc.com


(note, the cable pinout on their site is WRONG - the one okumaguy posted works for me - if you make the cable yourself, remember that the pin numbers 1..2..3 etc on the cable are different on the female vs male side... so on the PC (male) side, pin 1 is top left IIRC on the plug, and on the machine side, pin 1 is top right. They are labeled in tiny letters).

In the parameter bit setting (edit aux and hit ITEM key until you get to the menu labeled bit setting)

Parameter 1: 00011011
Parameter 12: 10100010

I went into the port settings on the PC, it's set to 4800 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity, and under the advanced tab I turned off "use FIFO buffers".

In the ConnectCNC program it's set for 4800 baud, 7 data bits, 2 stop bits, even parity, hardware flow control Xon/Xoff, Xon Character 17, Xoff character 19.

The command I use to send from the control to the PC is this..

Go into Edit AUX menu, don't use the DNC menu (when I do this it appears the control crashes? I have to turn it off then back on), but rather go into the PIP menu.

Then go into the ConnectCNC program and click "receive file" (and it will sit there waiting)

Then on the control, enter:

PUNCH filename.min, CN0:

hit the write button and on the PC screen I see all the characters flash by and it saves the file.

To send to the control,

READ CN0: (I had some trouble with filenames, but this method will default to calling the program A.MIN and then you can rename it)

then hit the write button

THEN after the control is waiting, go to the PC and send the file. It takes a moment and then the control returns to input mode, and if you do a DIR command on the control, the file is there.

Give that a shot and see if it works. I doubt you have a fried comm board - those UARTS have pretty good protection to protect against shorts in most cases (in my experience).

Also, the manual states that the OSP5000L has 4 or 5 communication ports that can be used for RS232. It said CN0: is the default and goes "from the main board" and that CN1 to CN4 are on a communication board. At least thats what it says in my manual. So maybe inside the back of the machine there is a "comm board" with additional ports? On my machine there is one port coming out of the machine near the power enclosure but there may be additional ports on the cards in back.

Where are you located? If you are anywhere near Boston I can try to help you out. Also, you can try contacting some of those companies that repair control boards... they are usually about half price of the new board from the manufacturer. Or, you can also keep your eye on eBay, various boards pop up from time to time.

Also, I am sure the chips on the OSP communication board are pretty standard so someone with some experience at repair could probably troubleshoot and repair it.

Hope this helps - let us know how you make out. I was sure my board was fried too until I realized OSP5000L is different than OSP5000L-G and OSP5020 and other flavors of the OSP.

[nlh]

Thanks Mike,

I will have another go at it with the software you linked to. Concerning the cable pinout, all I did was buy the correct gender connector and hood and hook my pins based on what was written in small number on the purchased connector. I am able to read back from the NC to my PC so I'm guessing my pinout is ok.

I never tried turning off FIFO's since I never gave it a thought, also did not try setting the baud rate on PC different than the program. Definately some good pointer here. I'll give them a go and report back what I find.

Nate

[SRT Mike]

Thanks Mike,

I will have another go at it with the software you linked to. Concerning the cable pinout, all I did was buy the correct gender connector and hood and hook my pins based on what was written in small number on the purchased connector. I am able to read back from the NC to my PC so I'm guessing my pinout is ok.

I never tried turning off FIFO's since I never gave it a thought, also did not try setting the baud rate on PC different than the program. Definately some good pointer here. I'll give them a go and report back what I find.

Nate

Hi Nate,

I am not sure the FIFOS are the problem, and also I dont' think the baud rate thing is a problem either - actually I may have made a typo, I have it set to 4800 baud on the port settings in Windows and in the ConnectCNC software.

I am 99% sure the problem is your cable. I changed every single setting and none of them worked - I was getting the same error you are - the FFFFFF one. Once I changed my cable, it worked first time, and I even played around with the settings a bunch and it kept on working. The OSP5000 isn't so picky about settings for it not to be working with all the adjustments you have made.

Remember that PC's are very tolerant of pin problems but the OSP5000 is not. PC's are made to interface to serial printers, mice, modems, communications devices and tons of other things. The manufacturers of all those may or may not follow correct standards. Whereas the OSP5000 is very specific on what it expects. From looking at the cable pinout that okumatechguy posted, it is different from a normal serial cable and very different from the cables used on other Okumas.

You can get wire at Radio shack and those serial port housings, and wire it yourself and I think you will be up and running!

[theokumaguy]

Mike,

A few items I would like to explain about the Okuma. First is the DNC button. I'm not 100% on which DNC type this button is referring to, but given the vintage I would assume it's a trickle feed system like the Fanuc tape mode can be. Each of your ports (whichever DNC is pointing to, CN0:-CN4:, PTR, Tape Reader etc) has a different set of parameters you can set for them. The key setting I think you need to change would be the time out in your optional parameter (word) pages. This is the duration in seconds that your machine will sit "listening" to that port and not allowing anything else to occur until that time has passed. Most likely it isn't locking up, but instead just listening for a long period of time. This is the Optional Parameter (Word) #29 listed on my sheet, but #29 is for CN0: not your DNC port. I'll check on this parameter location and get back to you this weekend some time.

Next is the CN0: through CN4: ports. This is a common misunderstanding with many machine manuals. These manuals are written for all of the possible options you might have. Your machine will have one RS232 port standard, with up to 4 additional ports as options. Each of these would be named incrementally CN0:-CN4:. The manual probably speaks of the ports as if they're always there and not optional, most likely just confusion in the Japanese-Jinglish translation. There's even a small section in the 7000 and U10/100 manuals discussing what they called "F Method". This method was supposed to be a way to use the standard 1.44MB floppy drive on the machine as a trickle feed device, virtually eliminating the need to buy more control memory. A friend and I tried to get the F Method to work for a while, talked to some service guys and some programmers, no one had even heard of it. Finally we sent the question to Okuma. It was an option that was published while it was in the development phase, but because DNC-B was out with DNC-DT on the horizon, it was never finished because neither of these methods were limited to a mere 1.44MB.

I noticed you're always calling up the CN0: in your read/write commands. I believe there is also a parameter on the 5000L that will set your default port to CN0: (aka TT:). Then you can shorthand it by using "PUNCH filename" (you can drop the .min, that is the default extension) and "READ". This is also how your directory and edit functions work, they are defaulting to the BB1: directory on 5000-5020 controls (MD1: on 7000+). You should be able to find "hidden" memory in BB0: if you need it, just use the copy command and copy it to BB0: or (I'm not 100% this works) try to READ into that directory. This is not recommended by Okuma, because you do need to leave space there for the parameter storage, but you can use some of it. I recommend using it as a protected file storage area for commonly used programs such as backups of your SEND and GET programs for Multi-DNC, .LIB files etc. Then if they are corrupted or deleted from BB1: you just copy them back in. As far as reading the actual file names, are you using the standard format with $filename.min% at the top of your program?

As far as a board repair facility, I've sent some people to http://www.cncrepair.com/depot.html - the last posted pricing they had on the Main Card 3 (5000L RS232 card) was $500 back in 2005. I've had to bounce servo drives back and forth a few times with them to get them tweaked in properly, but overall they seem to do pretty well. They might even have the facilities to test your board for you and advise on repair, I believe that control will boot up without the Main Card 3 but again not 100% on that either. Before going to that expense, I would double check your cable pinout, the Okuma pin 9 to PC pin 5 in particular as this is what controls the communication to the Okuma.

Also, regarding the durability of the UARTS - I'm not sure why but the Okuma RS232 port is particularly sensitive and can be fried simply by unplugging the cable while the machine is on. I've always felt that they should look into this issue and try to strengthen the circuit for better durability, but I'm sure they have bigger fish to fry at the factory.

[nlh]

Ok, I have double and triple checked my cable (Pin 5 PC - Pin 9 OSP is correct). I am using a homebuilt cable based on my sheet I recieved from Okuma which matches what okumaguy has as well. One thing I want to be clear on though, DSR/DTR, on my print, are shown as being jumpered together on both NC and PC side. Okumaguy is this correct? It's hard to tell from your information and want to be clear on that.

Also on NC OPTIONAL PARAMETER WORD #29 (busy time), my machine is currently set to 0, for some reason the control WILL NOT let me set this to any other number, it always throws up some "input error" or something (can't remember the exact wording) and the number stays at 0. I follow the same input procedure for all the other parameters without issue, but not #29. Is this locked for some reason? Can it be unlocked?

I have dealt with cncrepair before on a monitor for an M2 Mazak control. In my opinion a fair deal although the adjustments were way out of wack. After about 30min tweaking I was able to get it 90% but the color is still off. I may give them a call. Also have you ever replaced the UART chips yourself okumaguy? I may pull the board again and go over every chip, find the UART's, and see if I can purchase a replacement.

Thanks

[theokumaguy]

DSR/DTR should be jumpered (pin 6 to 20). There is a comment on one of my setup sheets that if #29 is unaccessible you have to purchase a software upgrade before it will work. Without it I am unsure how or even if the RS232 will work.

I have not replaced the UARTs myself, but I know that they are available. I do not have a source for them to offer. It's just one of those things that I haven't had time to look into. I'm slowly working into performing board repairs while in the field and have considered carrying spare UARTs with me, but haven't gotten around to that research project.

[nlh]

Thanks okumaguy,

In the case of param. #29, it may be that my main card 3 is good but will need a software update. Guess I will be calling Okuma on Monday.

This always seems to be my luck. Seems like I always end up with the machine/machines that are just out of spec enough to cause me to go back to the manufacturer. For example, I have a Mazak VQC 20-40B. It has 24K of memory, no tape mode, and no DNC capability. Where as if I my machine/control were about 6 months newer, it would have had updated software which would allow tape mode. Pretty bad when I have more flexability with large programs on a late 70's Acroloc w/ Fanuc 3000C(LED display control aprox size of large refrigerator) than I do with machines several years newer. Oh well, just roll with the punches.

Thanks again,
Nate

[koch.Cnc]

DSR/DTR should be jumpered (pin 6 to 20). There is a comment on one of my setup sheets that if #29 is unaccessible you have to purchase a software upgrade before it will work. Without it I am unsure how or even if the RS232 will work.

I have not replaced the UARTs myself, but I know that they are available. I do not have a source for them to offer. It's just one of those things that I haven't had time to look into. I'm slowly working into performing board repairs while in the field and have considered carrying spare UARTs with me, but haven't gotten around to that research project.

I know its a little bit late now...But I had all sort of problems with the communications card on my osp7000l lb15II. Getting problems like terminal not ready, etc.. I am thinking the serial cable got plugged out or something, and the card is really sensitive.
I asked okuma for the price on the communications board..they wanted a really high price..and had to give them my old card.
Worked one month with floppy disks. Reading your comment about the uarts went to ebay and bought all the chips that I could manually solder, and decided to change them myself..and changed some chips with other compatible ones, and added bases...so if I would ever have a problems again..well change the chips.
Well it cost me about 20-30 dollars worth of chips (have a lot of spare ones now...) and I would be more than gladly to tell you which ones to change...to repair the card if you had any problems, but I guess seeing the picture you will know which ones to change.
Hope This info can help someone.

[brianp-jag]

nlh,

The Green Screen generation of 5000 controls only allowed for hardware handshaking and had a special pin-out. The Standard 25-25pin connectors will not work. (Assuming 25pin to 25pin) 2-3, 3-2, 7-7, 1(machine side)-cable shield remain the same, but do not jumper 4 and 5. Instead, run the machine's pin 5 to the pc/btr's pin 4, and the machine's pin 9 to the pc/btr's pin 5. If you look in your schematics, the RS-232 pinout refers to pin 9 as "register". This pin actually toggles for every bit received, instead of being used as a buffer full command. This has been the issue in 90%+ of green screen RS-232 setups I have seen. I believe I have a write-up on this setup including parameter locations somewhere in my old notes if you require more information.

im having the same comm. problems with my 86' lb15 osp 5000l. we recently purchesed this machine. not very familer with okumas anymore. can you give me some more info on how to set this up. the documents i got from okuma dont seem to be working. i keep getting the FFFFFF. alarm i use easy dnc to communicate with it. it works fine for my deawoo lathe and hurco mill. i use a 9 pin on my pc to 25 pin on the machine. also the list of parameter changes that okuma gave me doesnt seem to affect how it works also and there are some i cant get to becuse i cant figure out how to change the pages when i get on them. okuma says to use the page up or down key but my control doesnt have that. any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks brian at jaguar

[Algirdas]

i use a 9 pin on my pc to 25 pin on the machine
can you place picture of cable pinout?
did you checked with cable, which works on Hurco?
also the list of parameter changes that okuma gave me doesnt seem to affect
list it here, I'll comment what each does.
there are some i cant get to
there is a MS bit of last parameter (bit) to see more pages of parameters. Did you noticed that? You don't need that pages for serial communication settings.
use the page up or down key but my control doesnt have that
is it broken? place picture of your keyboard.

[brianp-jag]

i use a 9 pin on my pc to 25 pin on the machine
can you place picture of cable pinout?
did you checked with cable, which works on Hurco?
also the list of parameter changes that okuma gave me doesnt seem to affect
list it here, I'll comment what each does.
there are some i cant get to
there is a MS bit of last parameter (bit) to see more pages of parameters. Did you noticed that? You don't need that pages for serial communication settings.
use the page up or down key but my control doesnt have that
is it broken? place picture of your keyboard.

i use a different cable for the hurco and another for my deawoo. the cable for the okuma is new and made to okumas specs. theres nothin that lists to change the pages on that control. ive tried every button on the machine. no page up or down. just doesnt have it. and i dont have a way to post a pic of the control. wish i did im sure it would be helpful. i tried to upload the pdf file that okuma sent me on all the comm settins and spec for the cable. i dont see it on here yet. hopefully it comes thru. i can send a txt message pic to anybody who wants to see a pic tho. if that helps. my # is 713 966 9169 my name is brian and would appreciate any help offered. im new to the shop supervisor postion as i took it over last week and all this has become my problem now. wish i new more and could help more brian at jag

[Algirdas]

The information on pdf (or tiff) provided by Okuma is right and sustainable. These settings are right.
You can't upload picture,
You can't answer if your panel is broken
You don't point, which cable you use. ["different" is not an answer]. Diagram is what plays a role.
How can we help you? maybe you can find someone near you, who can:
upload picture;
answer the questions;
read through this thread - suppose, all answers are here.

[rotec]

This might be a little long-winded, but hopefully you can pick out the parts you haven't checked and ignore those that you have already.

The jumper settings you asked about are easy to check. For the MC3 (A911-1103 or E4809-045-038) RS-232 board, there are three sets of jumpers. The "PUNCHER" and "RS232" set up the IRQ level for each transmission respectively and should both be set to position 4. The other jumper changes the board from Current Loop to RS232C format. I have never seen someone set this up to the Current Loop setting. For RS232 you should have pin 2 jumpered to pin 1.

I attached a "cleaner" printout of what should be the same information. If you already have the pins properly connected then we can move on from that. One thing to note is that you should ALWAYS use 7 data bits, 8 would change the Okuma to a Japanese transmission standard and you'll never get it to read properly. The RS-232 boards usually have a different transmit and receive chip, so it is very possible that someone unplugged the cable while the machine was on and blew the receive chip. The best thing to do would pick up a breakout box like the one offered here http://www.newark.com/36K8066/non-st...tronics-45-493
You're looking at several hundred dollars for a new communication board, so buying one of these for under $50 to confirm you have nothing transmitting from the machine is a good idea. I picked one up several years ago and use it quite often in field service.

Do you have a % sign at the beginning and end of your program? Also, check the settings of whatever communication program you use, sometimes they are set up to automatically add these at the beginning and end of a transmission then strip them when receiving. You don't want to have one automatically added plus add one manually.

If you press PIP, then Read and enter "TT:" then press write, it starts waiting to read file, does it come up with a filename at the top of the screen, or a "Varid File Reading" on the command line? If you are getting either of these, your program is reading in, but the machine never receives the end of program % sign to close the port and store it. The symptom would still be the same, no apparent data received.

If all of this checks out and you are receiving no feedback from the control that it is reading anything in you most likely have a bad Main Card 3.

Okuma guy, so p-leased to find this thread as Im sure like a few others Ive been wrongly following instructions for the OSP5000L-G where as it appears that the 5000-L is earlier and different.
My Question is there a cable solution for a 25pin to 9pin (PC) com port as not many PC have 25 pin com ports?