Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.


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Thread: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

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    Default Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    So have been trying to rig a DNC with my old Okuma LB15.. the machine has its serial port on the left backside next to an old big ass circular connector..

    I have tried reading from all the CN<no> ports with no success. And also tried the command

    ```
    >PIP
    >R CN0:
    ```
    Which throws an error after 10s, with no data being received at all.

    When i do the same for `CN1:` the machine throws a sub cpu thing error, locks and up and needs to be resetted.. So i will assume there is no expansion card for serial in it.

    I have attached my settings pages, and also the settings page of the microdnc box im trying to use (it can only do Xon/Xoff btw) but have had no luck with it,

    Any help to sanity check my settings and give any insight to what the hell it could be is much much appreciated..

    Similar Threads:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.-okuma_dnc_1-jpg   Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.-okuma_dnc_2-jpg   Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.-okuma_dnc_bitsettings-jpg   Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.-okuma_microdnc2-jpg  



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    Member Algirdas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    1. RS232 must be on Okuma. DNC function is optional. Check with OSP Data MAagement Card.
    2. Look if there is DB-25 connector.
    3. Serial cable diagram. Looking at the cable I think there are only 3 lines? Not enough for troubleshooting.
    4. What are connectivity and troubleshooting tools on that microbox? Isn't it better to take just a computer with RS232 to check connectivity?



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    1. RS232 must be on Okuma. DNC function is optional. Check with OSP Data MAagement Card.
    2. Look if there is DB-25 connector.
    3. Serial cable diagram. Looking at the cable I think there are only 3 lines? Not enough for troubleshooting.
    4. What are connectivity and troubleshooting tools on that microbox? Isn't it better to take just a computer with RS232 to check connectivity?
    Yeah if i had a computer with a serial port i would.
    Have tried with a couple of usb serial adapters with no success i do know it had a dnc transfer tho as it was connevted to a central system for transfer files and also read error codes back to the host.

    And i found a db25 port on the backside of the machine next to a larger circular port. And there was an extension cable from that to the front of the machine.



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    one-by-one ..
    if i had a computer with a serial port i would
    any working old computer should fit. These are cheap in the second-hand market. Difficult to sell, often you can get for free - just take away.
    Have tried with a couple of usb serial adapters with no success
    I would say this should be the first step - connect two computers using whatever adapters. Cheap ( prolific ) USB-> RS232 adapters work glueless - my recommendation.
    for transfer files and also read error codes back to the host
    On Okuma read / write files through RS232 is not DNC. If we understand DNC as "drip feed".
    db25 port on the backside of the machine
    If it is marked "CN1" or something like that, use it. You know what the port it is.
    And the cable. There is nothing special about the serial cable. It just needs to be correct. Doesn't work if only two lines used. Difficult to troubleshoot if three lines used. Right pinout is a must.



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    It works just fine with usb-serial adapter (OSP100, OSP200)
    First of all , you need to have correct cable. This is 90% reason for problems.
    https://www.cimco.com/support/how-to...-and-controls/
    I have been using that "Standard RS-232C cable with 5 wires".
    Next you will need program for PC.
    https://cadem.com/free-dnc-software/

    Happy wiring.



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    ...null modem cable is most of time the way CNC to PC are set up.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_modem

    ....using a RS232 Line Analyzer can help trouble shooting.
    good luck on the adventure

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.-rs232-analyzer-jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Button View Post
    It works just fine with usb-serial adapter (OSP100, OSP200)
    First of all , you need to have correct cable. This is 90% reason for problems.
    https://www.cimco.com/support/how-to...-and-controls/
    I have been using that "Standard RS-232C cable with 5 wires".
    Next you will need program for PC.
    https://cadem.com/free-dnc-software/

    Happy wiring.
    I have the 25 pin to 9 pin in this image.
    Wondering how it differs on the okuma one now tho.

    Anyone have a wiring diagram for 25 to 9 pin which is okuma specific?

    Edit: ... and after watching that for 5 more minutes i got it.. damn they flipped a couple of wires didnt they...
    Edit2: After looking at the wiring diagram then looking at the cablin in the machine, and yes, the cabling that went from the old production system to the connector at the backend of the machine is very much terminated and DTS/RTS soldered like expected, but the other end didnt match anything on any wiring diagram so that cable would never worked for me..

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Button View Post
    ...
    , thank you very much.. You dont happen to have the #1 and #12 bit options as well for doing a DTS/RTS transfer?!

    Last edited by NeoTech; 09-13-2021 at 03:36 PM.


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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    port settings:
    serial speed - equal on PC and OSP sides. You can transfer to one direction if it's satisfied.
    number of data bits:
    OSP parameter #12 bit4 (=0 means 7bit ISO {equal to 7 bit JIS + parity bit} =1 means 8bit JIS)
    that's enough for transfer.
    Check these parameters also:
    parameter #12:
    bit 0 =0 means 2 stop bit (reccomended); =1 means 1 stop bit;
    bit 1 =0 "ready" signal for RS232 available =1 not available;
    bit 2 =0 no parity check =1 parity check carried out;
    bit 3 =0 odd parity =1 even parity (reccomended);
    bit 4 =0 means 8bit JIS;
    bit 5 and bit 6 defines flow control, if You use three wires (two signal) cable. =00 for "wired" flow control, that means, CTS, RTS lines are used.
    bit 7 =0 file name not read. helps if receiving (PIP>R file name) file name is different from that included into transmission.

    NC optional parameter word:
    #44 =0 output port CN0: (setting for lathe. For MC it is #45)
    #54 =1 input port CN0: (setting for lathe. For MC it is #57)
    this is actually a difference between read and punch. Ports could be controled separatelly.

    waiting time before "timeout error" is set into parameters:
    NC optional parameter (word) parameter #23 "file read waiting timeout for channel 0 in DNC-B mode"
    and
    NC optional parameter (word) parameter #34 "ready completion waiting time for channel 0"



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    So got this working by doing

    Parameter #1 = 00001011
    Parameter #12 = 10101010
    My guess here is that Bit 5 is the RTS control (DC Control) and bit 6 is the DTR (DC Control 2)

    Parameter 44=0 (Uses CN0 RS232C on Card 3)
    Parameter 45=0 (Uses CN0 RS232C on Card 3)
    Parameter 54=1 (Uses CN0, default is 0=TR)
    Paramter 57 is a Timer for waiting on command response from the host computer in DNC mode. (Requires DNC Module).

    As far as i can see the OSP5000 controller doesnt make any difference between Lathe and Mill other than in the layout of the panel and IGF interface (L=model is lathe, M+G is modular)

    In th e software i had todo:
    Flowcontrol: Software
    DTR: False
    RTS: True
    Baud: 4800
    Data bits: 7
    Stop bits: 2
    Parity: Even


    Note i dont have any real need for punching out code from the controller so i havent fought this particular fight.

    But any file needs to be formatted like..

    $A.MIN%
    ... Your ISO Code
    %

    And this is the cable that worked. Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.-cable-guide-okuma-sw-png

    For some reason it cannot be 1001.MIN or any other number that will give a filename error.

    - Trying to summarize my efforts here, for reasons.

    Last edited by NeoTech; 09-14-2021 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Correcting my summarization for the next poor soul.


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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    Would any of you know if enabling 5 and 6 bits (both of em) would enable DTR/RTS rather than just RTS check on the flow control? Why im asking is the serial sender i use wants DTR/RTS flow control in software mode to work properly. As i made it work with my PC now i wanna give this serial sender another try.. mainly cuz i would avoid the need for a PC.



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    Try it. easy.



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    Try it. easy.
    Tried.. and yes,, if you set both bit 5 and 6 to true.. you get DTS/RTS - but in Software mode.
    There is no hardware handshake to be found sadly.

    But with DTR/RST the transfer got alot faster and more stable between the PC and the Machine..

    Issues im having tho is still that the DNC sender i have (MicroDNC2) will not send to the machine i suspect the software implementation there is very limited, and there is just not enough option to flip flags..



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    After digging thru this a bit more.. This machine does not implement a RTS/CTS protocole.. At all.
    It uses the older standard of DTR = Data terminal ready, which is set high when it "available"

    As far as i know CTS/RTS came later in the late 80s, but up to mid 80s the implementation of CTS/RTS was never meant to be flow control it was implemented for modems to know who was supposed to say what and when and got so misused it became its own standard...

    What confuses me then wat the DC2 and DC1 options actually represent because if one uses cimco, and setting that to Software flow control and ticking DTR/RTS boxes (why are this paired instead of the matched pair is beyond me).. will give you a "software" based without a "Xon" sent byt the Okuma machine btw but RTS flow control incoming. (I used a soldered adapter sitting between the computer and the Okuma, connected to a digital signal analyzer dumping all data to a file that got sent so i could sneak peak the protocol and handshakes..)

    Because looking at the connector for the Okuma it uses the secondary RX line defined in the serial specification the RG1 to act as a flow control (pin 9). - but it really defies the standard implementation of RS232C.
    And i cannot really find any good literature on it.

    Normally in software flow control the sender requires to see a "Xon" sent by the receiver before it starts punching out data. And it does that by raising the RTS pin once it recieves the Xon. But as far as i can see, no Xon is sent and if bit 6 is set, the DTR option needs to be ticked in Cimco to make it work. But looking at the connector DTR pin is tied together with DSR and DCD pin, so it would be ineffective. so essentially DTR is always pulled high and sets the Okuma as "Data terminal ready" at all times.

    Turning both 5 and 6 bit off, requires you to also turn off bit 1 and bit 7... this allows for a 3 wire connection and complete send and pray mode.. i had not much luck getting complete transfers this way..



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    Attached document might help??
    Cheers
    Brian.

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    Quote Originally Posted by broby View Post
    Attached document might help??
    Cheers
    Brian.
    thank you thank you very much.. this type of docs that is hard as hell to find.



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    Conclusion; Software transfer to device is finnicky and there is not a good "works everytime" device.

    If you have a 5000L controller the settings is different. (see Brobys document)

    If you like me have a Lathe with a 5000M+G controllers it's different once again. As its customer customized before delivery the normal documentation dont 100% apply.

    If you can make DC1 and 2 work in software mode from PC - its seems to be the most stable. But also doesnt work well with devices. As this is actually the hardware mode for the Okuma
    And requires a special cable wired with the RG1 pin enabled. Which essentially replaces the DTS pin normally in there implementation.

    Software mode with DC1 and 2 turned off (3 wire mode) works in slow slow baud rates but not above 2400. And could be explored if necessary.

    Final note, DNC is an OPTION, as a seperate transfer method - and if you have that this thread wont apply to you at all.
    DNC allows for the remote control of the machine itself from a central device. And then uses Serial for the actual transfer.
    The DNC implementation on Okuma is seperate from the RS232C controller and is not specified as part of the transfer mechanism.

    I hope this thread will help somebody else out in the future.



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    The 5000L “green screen” had different settings for communication than the 5000L-G and you are correct in that it did not have the same communication capabilities.

    I’m able to reliably do 9600 baud all the time using software handshaking. Limitations seem to be long distances and noises, so a well shielded cable is important. I’ve done up to 19200 even but 9600 seems best if reaction times by hardware is slow.

    Normally 5 and 6 would be crossed for hardware handshaking. Always jumper 6,8,20 on Okuma end.

    Glad to hear you have it working.

    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.


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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    Quote Originally Posted by OkumaWiz View Post
    The 5000L “green screen” had different settings for communication than the 5000L-G and you are correct in that it did not have the same communication capabilities.

    I’m able to reliably do 9600 baud all the time using software handshaking. Limitations seem to be long distances and noises, so a well shielded cable is important. I’ve done up to 19200 even but 9600 seems best if reaction times by hardware is slow.

    Normally 5 and 6 would be crossed for hardware handshaking. Always jumper 6,8,20 on Okuma end.

    Glad to hear you have it working.
    Question i guess is which pins in the connector represents the bit 5 and 6.. As mentioned before i made the cable according to the instruction on the cimco page and by the looks of it, that cable sould support hardware handshaking.



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    Default Re: Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

    Quote Originally Posted by OkumaWiz View Post
    The 5000L “green screen” had different settings for communication than the 5000L-G and you are correct in that it did not have the same communication capabilities.

    I’m able to reliably do 9600 baud all the time using software handshaking. Limitations seem to be long distances and noises, so a well shielded cable is important. I’ve done up to 19200 even but 9600 seems best if reaction times by hardware is slow.

    Normally 5 and 6 would be crossed for hardware handshaking. Always jumper 6,8,20 on Okuma end.

    Glad to hear you have it working.

    My mistake, it's actually 4 and 5 that should be jumpered on the Okuma end and not 5 and 6... 6, 8 and 20 should be jumpered on the Okuma end as well. When using software handshaking you only only need 2,3, and 7 to communicate. ONLY 3 wires. Start and stop are controlled by the DC1 and DC3 codes that is fed over lines 2 and 3. This is my preferred method because of it's simplicity.

    Use Mike B's book on complete serial communications. He and I spent a lot of time talking about RS232 and Mike DEFINITELY know what he's talking about. His manual came from a lot of those conversations and troubleshooting that we did together. He did a great job on it and it does a great job covering all you need to know including control history. The newer controls seem to have followed through with the older controls - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's been consistent since the 5020L-G (M-G) controls from what I've seen.

    Important tip: after making parameter changes.. wait for backup about 2.5 minutes, then power down including breaker for at least a minute to allow the RS board to reset properly with the new parameters.

    Best regards,

    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.


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Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.

Okuma LB15 - OSP5000 / DNC / Serial transfer.