Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion - Page 2

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Thread: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

  1. #13
    Registered Iron-Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    Quote Originally Posted by WTFover View Post
    To answer your question, I wasn't provided anything other than the mill, and a demo copy of Mach 3 pre-installed and configured in the control computer. I haven't changed anything in the cabinet except for the Pathpilot conversion, which consists of the Mesa Card, a Parallel cable and an SSD drive. From everything that I see here, it looks like tuning and setting up for encoder feedback is possible, so I will likely dig in to that at some point when I get some more free time, but for now, I have parts to make so will probably leave as is, and start doing some research and planning. Thanks everyone for the help and input.
    Hello Jason

    You provided some answers for me. Do you have a oscilloscope?
    If the drives were set to Mach 3 then you could measure the step width and pulse width.
    Compare those measurements to the values(graphs/chart) in the manual located in section 4.2(position control) ?
    Do the same for PathPilot.
    That section tells you how to adjust the drive for position control. It also has a filter setting.
    Start a log. Make changes to just one axis at a time, say the X.
    If the encoders are set correctly, your problem is adjusting the servo drives for the inertia in your machine.
    Try to locate the software for your servos if possible.

    Read pages 38 to 39 and recheck those parameters, make adjustments, ie the PID values probably need to increased.
    Keep at it, a servo system running PathPilot should sing!!!!

    Hope this helps,
    Iron Man

    Last edited by Iron-Man; 12-14-2018 at 10:44 AM. Reason: additional info.


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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    WTF......I was a bit disappointed to. My understanding is that the encoders are there and are used for error sensing, but not position correction.....not sure of the right term there. It will cause a fault if it detects missed steps, but it won't correct any lost steps.

    You guys mentioned the spindle ramp up/down. Here's what mine does with the braking resistor.....but I'm running mach3 and the smooth stepper.


    Don't have to be too bright to be me :)
    bluehandsvideo on youtube


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    Registered AUSTINMACHINING's Avatar
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    Default

    FWIW

    I'm running the factory mach 3 settings. I have 2 Kurt D688's and a 3 jaw chuck mounted to the table, so >200lbs, but have never had a positional error in 5 years. The servos will throw an Estop when overloaded, but i have to do something really stupid to make that happen.



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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    Here is a link to the servo software SERVOsoft Standard V1.0.0.76
    It really only good for adjusting parameters and saving them. Don't think any of the tuning graphs worked.
    Can not get it to work on window 10 only win7 64bit

    left the machine on the conservative side 180imp rapids, Also removed the gearing in the drives
    Novakon drives come set up at 10,000 steps/inch. Remove the electronic gearing and you get 50,800 steps inch, Servos are 10,000 steps to a revolution.



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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    Quote Originally Posted by powerr View Post
    Here is a link to the servo software SERVOsoft Standard V1.0.0.76
    It really only good for adjusting parameters and saving them. Don't think any of the tuning graphs worked.
    Can not get it to work on window 10 only win7 64bit

    left the machine on the conservative side 180imp rapids, Also removed the gearing in the drives
    Novakon drives come set up at 10,000 steps/inch. Remove the electronic gearing and you get 50,800 steps inch, Servos are 10,000 steps to a revolution.
    Thanks for the link. Out of curiosity, why did you remove the gearing? Was it to increase the encoder resolution, and machine precision?

    Jason --CNC Newbie--


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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    Yes it increases resolution of the motor,Gives you a bit of a buffer only 5.08 encoder counts to .0001 of a movement, but that is better than a 1-1 resolution.
    But machine precision, nothing really gained there. it is still .001 to .0005.
    the machines need some mechanical work to increase precision.
    double nut, preloaded, ground ball screws and real ball screw bearings,
    .
    I am happy with it. Its no Hurco not even Hass, but it is fun to play and tinker with.



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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    So this is not fixed. I noticed that even after slowing down the acceleration settings, jogs seemed to be incrementing more error. If I use the shuttle jog wheel and move the table along the X axis at a constant 30 IPM, I can (very gently) wrap my hand around the the exposed dial on the left end of the mill and feel the servo motor stalling and starting. It's obvious to the eye. The DRO continues to count at a constant pace, which ends up resulting in a massive positioning error. I am about to go put the Mach 3 Hard drive back in this thing and see if I can duplicate the error. I think I might take another drive and do a straight up LinuxCNC install from the beginning and start from scratch. Getting pretty frustrated at this point.

    Jason --CNC Newbie--


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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    Quote Originally Posted by WTFover View Post
    So this is not fixed. I noticed that even after slowing down the acceleration settings, jogs seemed to be incrementing more error. If I use the shuttle jog wheel and move the table along the X axis at a constant 30 IPM, I can (very gently) wrap my hand around the the exposed dial on the left end of the mill and feel the servo motor stalling and starting. It's obvious to the eye. The DRO continues to count at a constant pace, which ends up resulting in a massive positioning error. I am about to go put the Mach 3 Hard drive back in this thing and see if I can duplicate the error. I think I might take another drive and do a straight up LinuxCNC install from the beginning and start from scratch. Getting pretty frustrated at this point.
    My WAG is that you have step time set too short, As a first guess I would set the step time to 2X the drives minimum step time specification



  9. #21
    Registered Iron-Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    Quote Originally Posted by WTFover View Post
    So this is not fixed. I noticed that even after slowing down the acceleration settings, jogs seemed to be incrementing more error. If I use the shuttle jog wheel and move the table along the X axis at a constant 30 IPM, I can (very gently) wrap my hand around the the exposed dial on the left end of the mill and feel the servo motor stalling and starting. It's obvious to the eye. The DRO continues to count at a constant pace, which ends up resulting in a massive positioning error. I am about to go put the Mach 3 Hard drive back in this thing and see if I can duplicate the error. I think I might take another drive and do a straight up LinuxCNC install from the beginning and start from scratch. Getting pretty frustrated at this point.
    Did you try to adjust the drives parameters in section 4.2?

    Iron-Man



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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron-Man View Post
    Did you try to adjust the drives parameters in section 4.2?

    Iron-Man
    Not yet. I did notice at the back of the drive manual that I posted (section 7.4) there is a table with what appears to be something called "Adaptive table for servo motor selections" which corresponds with Parameter 002 in the settings. Both the X and the Y Drives are set to value A101, whereas the table in the manual calls for the specific drive to be set to B093. Beyond that I am not too confident in my capabilities or the english translation of what all the parameters do, what I should change and how I should go about measuring any changes. I will likely change that parameter and see if it nets anything interesting.


    Update:
    I tried to review a few of the parameters and now I'm really stumped. Chapter 5 actually does a reasonable job of explaining what some of these parameters do. Following the instructions:
    Check P001 value, should correspond to a sub model number L08, L12 or L16. Mine reads 04L01.
    Check P002 value, should correspond to the table I spoke about above. Current Parameter is set to A101, should be B093 to match the drive. I am unable to change the parameter. I verified there were some other parameter values I could change, but this one I could not.
    Probably one of the most frustrating things about this whole thing is the general lack of available documentation about the drives, motors, software availability.

    Last edited by WTFover; 12-24-2018 at 04:42 PM.
    Jason --CNC Newbie--


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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    So I've had a little bit of success. I was able to cobble together a Win7 32bit VM, and got the servosoft software running and connected. I am able to backup and restore the entire servo drive config. One other interesting note is that Parameter 002 does not show up in the list either. I tried the recover factory, option, but it did not appear to change anything, so it's acting like these servo drives just have a default configuration on them. I'll keep at it.
    . Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion-servosoft-jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion-servosoft-jpg  
    Jason --CNC Newbie--


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    Default Re: Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

    So new development. I took the X axis servo off, to play with the settings in servosoft, and low and behold the locking collar that connects to the ballscrew was not tight, and by not tight, I mean the motor just slid right out of the mounting flange. I don't ever recall taking the motor loose, for anything, but it would certainly explain the lost motion. I guess I need to check the Y as well. That thing is buried in the column. so I am going to put everything back to the way it was and start over.

    Jason --CNC Newbie--


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Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion

Torus Pro Servo + Pathpilot = Lost Motion