PathPilot on NM200 - Page 5

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 112

Thread: PathPilot on NM200

  1. #81
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    644
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    These parameters gave a more reliable start/stop operation of the spindle, plus full range of speed, but the commanded to actual is still way off.

    At S100 VFD reports 106 RPM
    At S200 906
    At S300 1812

    Reaches max of 4045 at about S555.

    Each increment of 100 increases RPMs by ~900. After shutting down for the evening, I noticed that the MAX_MCB_FREQUENCY in the INI file is set to 10,000. I'll increment that to 25,000 tomorrow to see if that has an effect.

    Read up on lincurve, so if push comes to shove I think that can translate between command and actual speeds.
    Its probably mainly simple scaling, If you delete any additional scaling components it should be about right.

    Do you have a two speed spindle? if not, I dont see the need for the Tormach spindle component or
    any other clap-trap the M3,M4 commands RPM number needs to be fed through



  2. #82
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    594
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Single speed spindle. I just configured both the same for simplicity.

    You have to realize that I never saw any of these files until last week, and I have no idea what the tormach-spindle does or doesn't do. I'm doing a lot of guess about things using the principle of least astonishment.

    I really appreciate the help I've been given here.

    I did run into another question trying to help a friend of mine. He has a 1100-2 that was upgraded from a 1100-1. He sent me a pic of the control board that doesn't look like anything I've seen before. Did Tormach use Mesa cards or BoBs in earlier versions?



  3. #83
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    644
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    Single speed spindle. I just configured both the same for simplicity.

    You have to realize that I never saw any of these files until last week, and I have no idea what the tormach-spindle does or doesn't do. I'm doing a lot of guess about things using the principle of least astonishment.

    I really appreciate the help I've been given here.

    I did run into another question trying to help a friend of mine. He has a 1100-2 that was upgraded from a 1100-1. He sent me a pic of the control board that doesn't look like anything I've seen before. Did Tormach use Mesa cards or BoBs in earlier versions?
    Most of the Tormach hal / in file stuff is standard LinuxCNC so LinuxCNC documentation can be used

    And no, we have never made parallel port BOBs or cards for Tormach before PathPilot



  4. #84
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    594
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    One idea that came into my head tonight wrt multiple tools in one file: at the point the machine stops for a tool change, click the Stop button to rewind the file. Then jog to zero the new tool, and finally use the Run From Here feature to jump to the new start point.

    *** Edit ***

    This idea does seem to work at least when practiced cutting air with no spindle or tool.

    Last edited by kvom; 09-11-2017 at 02:02 PM.


  5. #85
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    594
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    More experimenting while waiting for the hurricane to arrive.

    First effort was to feed the user-specified speed directly to the stepgen input rather than having it pass through the tormachspindle internal scaling since I don't have a 2-speed spindle. Thus:

    net spindle-speed motion.spindle-speed-out tormachspindle.speed-in
    net spindle-speed hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.04.velocity-cmd


    Then after a multitude of trying different stepgen parameters I came up with these:

    setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.04.position-scale 3.125
    setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.04.maxvel 4000
    setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.04.steplen 2000


    This yielded a range of speeds "pretty close" to the commanded values. It's unclear to me why the steplen matters since at 25KHz the wavelength is 40,000 nanoseconds.

    In any case, the position-scale * maxvel yields a 12.5KHz rate vs. 25KHz, leading me to suspect that the CR11 manual might be in error. OTOH, the VFD settings might command 4000 rpm at 5V.

    It was interesting to observe that PP allows you to command a speed lower than the configured minimum, although it does give a message on the Status page.

    *** Edit ***

    Since the above parameters give a full range of speeds I decided to leave them as is and try to straighten out the response curve with lincurve. I coded up a 8 position curve at 300 RPM intervals and loaded the HAL, but got an error than lincurve.ko is missing. Did a bit of hunting and found a post by Brian in another thread where is attached the file as lincurve.ko.txt. Downloaded it so I'm ready for more testing next time in the shop.

    Last edited by kvom; 09-11-2017 at 04:08 PM.


  6. #86
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    388
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    More experimenting while waiting for the hurricane to arrive.

    First effort was to feed the user-specified speed directly to the stepgen input rather than having it pass through the tormachspindle internal scaling since I don't have a 2-speed spindle. Thus:

    net spindle-speed motion.spindle-speed-out tormachspindle.speed-in
    net spindle-speed hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.04.velocity-cmd


    Then after a multitude of trying different stepgen parameters I came up with these:

    setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.04.position-scale 3.125
    setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.04.maxvel 4000
    setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.04.steplen 2000


    This yielded a range of speeds "pretty close" to the commanded values. It's unclear to me why the steplen matters since at 25KHz the wavelength is 40,000 nanoseconds.

    In any case, the position-scale * maxvel yields a 12.5KHz rate vs. 25KHz, leading me to suspect that the CR11 manual might be in error. OTOH, the VFD settings might command 4000 rpm at 5V.

    It was interesting to observe that PP allows you to command a speed lower than the configured minimum, although it does give a message on the Status page.

    *** Edit ***

    Since the above parameters give a full range of speeds I decided to leave them as is and try to straighten out the response curve with lincurve. I coded up a 8 position curve at 300 RPM intervals and loaded the HAL, but got an error than lincurve.ko is missing. Did a bit of hunting and found a post by Brian in another thread where is attached the file as lincurve.ko.txt. Downloaded it so I'm ready for more testing next time in the shop.

    Yay! Progress. Grats.

    Scott...

    Instructional Videos for CNC Guitar Building
    http://www.rmgvideos.com


  7. #87
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    701
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Yeah it was interesting that PP didn't include that lincurve.ko module that is native to linuxcnc. Fortunately it's easy to put back. I wouldve thought Tormach would use that to even out the spindle speed.

    Anyways, glad to hear you are making progress!



  8. #88
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    594
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    If Tormach uses a PWM on the BoB plus digital vs analog control of the VFD, perhaps their speeds are linear.

    There is something wrong with linuxcnc forum as it never sends the signup confirmation email. So it's impossible to report an error. Brian, can you alert them of the problem as you're already registered?

    An internet buddy of mine has a 1100-1 mill he bought in 2007 and upgraded to an 1100-2 later. Now he's trying to upgrade to PP but is having trouble. Not sure I can talk him through it as he lives in Wisconsin. His first symptom is that he can jog the axes but can't reference them. One would think that a PP install as an 1100-2 on an actual Tormach machine would work out of the box.



  9. #89
    Member popspipes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1777
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    I would think a phone call to Tormach should solve the problem.
    It did work out of the box on my 1100-3 purchased new feb 2012, I did buy the mesa card for the computer as well.

    mike sr


  10. #90
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    701
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    If Tormach uses a PWM on the BoB plus digital vs analog control of the VFD, perhaps their speeds are linear.

    There is something wrong with linuxcnc forum as it never sends the signup confirmation email. So it's impossible to report an error. Brian, can you alert them of the problem as you're already registered?

    An internet buddy of mine has a 1100-1 mill he bought in 2007 and upgraded to an 1100-2 later. Now he's trying to upgrade to PP but is having trouble. Not sure I can talk him through it as he lives in Wisconsin. His first symptom is that he can jog the axes but can't reference them. One would think that a PP install as an 1100-2 on an actual Tormach machine would work out of the box.
    Kirk- I think I had trouble registering too if I recall - try a different email address or check spam folder?



  11. #91
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    594
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    I loaded the lincurve.ko file and the HAL with it configured. Result is very even correlation of S value and RPM throughout the range. So at this point I am calling it done. Attached is my INI and HAL files along with lincurve.ko in a zipfile for anyone else desiring to do this conversion.

    A few comments:

    My controller is a CD100. I believe I could have done this less expensively by using the CPU in the control. It would just need a new hard drive for PP (or else configure the existing one for dual boot), and a 5i25 Mesa card to replace the parallel port card in the PCI slot. I went with the separate computer since I wasn't sure of success in this effort.

    My HAL file assumes that the BoB is a C11G revision 8. If John switched to a later model that uses PWM for spindle, then modifications would be needed. A different bit file from Mesa would also be needed, and it's possible that Scott's Torus files would be closer.

    My machine has non-working limit switches, so my INI file specified reference in place. It's easy to change back if referencing with limit switches.

    I don't have anything wired for probing, so the HAL file would need to be modified to support this. The same goes for a tool setter.

    My Novakon coolant pump gave up the ghost years ago. The HAL code to turn it on and off should work, but hasn't obviously been tested.

    Attached Files Attached Files


  12. #92
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    701
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Great work Kirk!



  13. #93
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1416
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Nicely done! Glad you got it sorted out. Once you wrap your head around lincurve it's pretty easy to get the response proportional as it should be. The LinuxCNC HAL file is daunting but it's amazingly versatile.

    CNC: Making incorrect parts and breaking stuff, faster and with greater precision.


  14. #94
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    594
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    I was a software guy my whole career, so lincurve is pretty trivial for me. the HAL format makes sense once you read the linuxcnc documents on HAL. The linuxcnc components with documentation are easy to use, but the Tormach specific components are not. I had to read between the lines on these, which are the links between the UI and the Mesa.



  15. #95
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1416
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Yeah, for me the syntax was not so hard. Working out where it needed to be inserted and what the values needed to be was the more difficult part. Pencil and paper and some time worked that out. Measuring voltage output got me within +/- 120 RPM. Tweaking the values based on the actual RPM then narrowed that to about +/- 50 free-running. I've been tweaking mine for weeks. It's like legos, I keep thinking of something else I could bolt on with a couple of MUXs and a few logic gates. A software guy's Erector Set.

    My only real gripe is inconsistency in the naming sometimes. Sometimes its blah.in, sometimes blah.in0, sometimes blah.in-0, sometimes blah.in-00. I'd prefer that it just always be blah.in-00 for everything. That way you don't need to wonder what version this component needs even if it has only one input.

    CNC: Making incorrect parts and breaking stuff, faster and with greater precision.


  16. #96
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    I basically had to do something similar in Mach 3 with a DC motor controller and a Homann motor speed card.
    I tweaked and tweaked on it until it would do my minimum speed (1000), my steel cutting speed (2500)and my max speed for aluminum at 6600 RPM.
    I just settled for that because in the end, those were the only speeds I ever called out other than for twist drills. Precise speeds aren't really required for those.

    Lee


  17. #97
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    594
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    My VFD is configured to show the output RPMs, so it was quite easy to find the S value that resulted in a chosen speed in 300 RPM intervals. So the S value went into the lincurve X value and the VFD value into the Y. As for naming, the parameters for the number of lincurve intervals is "personality"! WTF.



  18. #98
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Someone got pretty creative or very cryptic with that name. "Speed range WAG" might have been more enlightening.

    Lee


  19. #99
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    644
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    Personality comes form the generic hal component compiler, where a number sets a behaviour

    The HAL Component Generator

    (speed range is not good because lincurve is not limited to linearizing spindle speeds)

    if there is a question about a LinuxCNC component, just google the LinuxCNC manual page, for example "linuxcnc man lincurve"

    LINCURVE



  20. #100
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: PathPilot on NM200

    That makes a little more sense now.
    Thanks or that info.

    Lee


Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

PathPilot on NM200

PathPilot on NM200