The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

[engnerdan]

How did you take the crates apart?
I used a screw gun.

Mine were all nailed together except the mill crate that had a 1.5 sides that were screwed on. I would assume this is from customs or Novakon opening it to take parts off. I will say the metal banding with the nails through it on the edges is a PITA to remove.

I now have about 100+ lbs of cheap plywood waiting to be burned at our next bon-fire night.

-Dan

[engnerdan]

Thanks Dan. The more information we have, the better we can follow up and improve. It looks like one band did snap during transportation. I can't wait to get the new stands in, when everything will be in one compact crate.

Regards,
Novakon Team

I wish I would have caught that the new stands are an upgrade. Here I was thinking it was what I was getting, that is until i read the ENTIRE thread on here about the new stands and how they are an upcharge upgrade for now. Oh well not worth changing now. I am working on my plans to improve the stand I have before I put the mill on it.

-Dan

[ram48]

Dan you have a PM about the door
I have a solid one for trade if you like
Ray Mc

[ram48]

Dan

The closest (almost perfect match) paint I found is Valspar # 85039 and the name is Gloss smoke infusion.
it comes in a rattle can at Lowes but they also mixed a color matched quart for me. Hope this helps.
Ray Mc

[bill south]

Ram 48!
You beat me to the punch on the door. I just bought a pro with a solid front and will be installing my own drawbar so a cutout is needed. Oh well, I do have a cnc machine!!! Regarding the paint, I took a backet to Lowes and asked them to match it with a machine grade paint. It came out perfect. I don't know how well it will withstand coolant but the sales (lady) said it should not be a problem. Time will tell.
Dan;
Congrats on the new mill. The build you are planning will be watched with interest.
Bill

[engnerdan]

Dan

The closest (almost perfect match) paint I found is Valspar # 85039 and the name is Gloss smoke infusion.
it comes in a rattle can at Lowes but they also mixed a color matched quart for me. Hope this helps.
Ray Mc

Is that for the mill color or the stand color? My mill is a greyish off white. But the stand appears to be a blueish grey.

-Dan

[ram48]

Is that for the mill color or the stand color? My mill is a greyish off white. But the stand appears to be a blueish grey.

-Dan

That is for the Mill color on my torus

[engnerdan]

Time for a midweek update.

I am planning to haul the mill and the stand home sometime in the next 4 days.

I have been been fighting with the Hitachi VFD and the Yaskawa spindle motor I bought. I think I am now hitting a current limit that is set too low but I have not had time to do any more testing. The VFD runs a 1/2 hp motor perfectly but the 3/5HP motor does not exceed 7 HZ when it is suppose to run at 60 plus it is error-ing out after a few seconds. Even though I do not plan on putting this larger motor on for some time I want to verify I did not get lied to about it being a working motor.

I have also been talking to a couple servo motor vendors and I am hoping to finalize who I am going with next week. Right now it looks like my projected budget for servos has been greatly exceeded but it is for a good reason.

My motion control card should be here today.

A trade of spindle/motor covers has been arranged.

I think I have about half of the electrical parts I will need, once I get a measurement of how big of a sheet metal panel I can fit in the electrical enclosure I will update my AutoCAD layout and finalize on the electrical diagram. Then I can order the remaining parts and start assembling the controls.

The picture - This is just all the sheet metal parts and a few purchased parts all laid out in my messy garage.

[hjl4]

The VFD runs a 1 to 2 HP motor perfectly but the 3 to 5 hp motor does not exceed..........
Is that what you meant? Or 0.5HP and 0.6HP? Maybe it's just me. Were talking spindle motor right. Cause that seems weak.
LOL
If 3 to 5HP, then I can see why a 1 to 2HP drive wouldn't be able to.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Any VFD, when operated with single-phase input, must be de-rated by at least 30%. So, a 3HP VFD, will only operate a 2HP motor if using single-phase input. So, you'll never get 3HP out of that motor unless you get 3-phase power into the VFD, which, if this is in your house, ain't gonna happen. If, as it appears, you're saying that motor is 8000 RPM at 60 Hz, then it's going to make a pretty lousy spindle motor anyway. At 8000 RPM, you'd want to be more like 200 Hz. Below 60Hz, you'll be losing torque, and by the time you get down to reasonable machining RPMs (like 1-5K), your torque will be greatly reduced, which means you probably won't be able to handle large drills well at all.

Regards,
Ray L.

[engnerdan]

Ok I guess I need to do some explaining.

1. The VFD I have is a Hitachi WJ200-055LF - Which is a 200-230 volt 7.5 HP 5.5 KW rated VFD. That is on 3 phase power.
2. The motor I have is a Yaskawa UAASKA-04CA1 rated 2.2 KW output from 1500-8000 ROM continuously, with a 15 minute overload rating of 3.7 KW from 1500-8000 RPM. At 60 HZ the motor runs 1500 RPM, at 266.66 HZ it is at 8000 RPM.
3. I have single phase 230 volt service at home, so per the Hitachi de-rating document I de-rated it based on a VT (Variable Torque) application.
4. The name plate for the motor says 32/23 AMPS, Yaskawa does not explicitly say it but I have taken that to mean that is their 1 minute overload rating. I based this off of some charts I have and the fact that 32/23 amps at 200 volts would put this motor at 6.4/4.6 KW of power used and that would be very inefficient.

So with all that stated, I will start over. With the 5.5 KW VFD and the 2.2KW motor the VFD will not allow the motor to go over 6.5 HZ. Upon looking through the documentation for the VFD it looks like a over current HZ limiting function has been enabled and the current setting is very low. So to test the 5.5KW VFD I hooked up a new 0.375KW motor and it worked just fine.

I believe the problem lies in the settings on the drive. While I tried following the start-up procedure right out of the box, there is a mismatch between the firmware loaded on the drive and the instruction manual. To start with out of the box the drive has 75% of the parameters that you are to set in the start-up procedure, locked out. Nowhere in the PDF version or the printer version of the manual is there any mention that the first thing you must do it change parameter b037 from 04 to 00. That parameter locks the user out of nearly any parameter you would need to set.

So to add to this discussion, there is a chance there is something wrong with this motor. When I got it it was sold as "pulled from a running machine" but when I took it out of the crate it sounded like there was sand inside it (when the shaft was spun). I still hooked it up and I did manage to get it up to 60 HZ once but the bearings were so bad it quickly overloaded and shut down. I have since replaced the bearings and cleaned the motor. It looks like it was partially submerged in water a long time ago. I have checked the windings for resistance and shorts. Without 3 phase power or a megaohm meter there is nothing more I can test right now.

After replacing the bearings and putting it back together, I did a "reset" on the VFD and then set the basic startup parameters. With this the motor starts slowly and stops at about 6.5 HZ. I ran out of time to go through all the parameters to make sure something was not set wrong. I am hoping all that is wrong is that the over current protection is set too low.

This motor is not even critical to me getting the mill running. I purchased my mill with the factory 1.5 KW (2HP) motor so I still have that one to fall back on. But if I can prove that this 3 HP motor works I might fall asleep a little faster at night. I would be rather unhappy if I was sold a motor with bad bearings and bad windings.

-Dan

[engnerdan]

Ok time for an update and some more pictures,

Last night my wife-to-be and I had enough time stop at my friends shop and do a little dis-assembly and take some of the mill home. While this was not required, after reading a thread by bu air-gunner I decided I wanted to take the mill partially apart and clean and inspect a few things. So below are the pictures I took and what I found. I am planning to bring the last 2 parts, the stand and what is left of the mill, home this weekend.

My findings
Everything came apart fairly easily no nasty surprises. I did notice the ball nuts seem to be very short, so they must not be the typical preloaded double ball nut. I will have to look into this a bit more later. I think I discovered some "low hanging fruit" in terms of the Z axis ball screw and travel length. It looks like there is about 3" off ball screw not being utilized, from my crude measurements it appears 1" down and 2" up could be gained with longer bearing rails, moving the end of travel bumper and a new gas spring/s. If I end up with the servos I am hoping to get I might not need the gas spring at all. I already have a request out with my HIWIN sales guy for a quote on 2 - 700mm rails and more of the green plastic screw covers. Moving onto the stand, this is some not so low hanging fruit but I think I am going to turn my stand around 180*, making what was the back now the front. Then a little bit of design work using 3D CAD and then a few hours with the plasma cutter and grinder and I should have something capable of housing a decent sized coolant tank and having similar chip handing abilities to the new stand design. But for now I am focusing on the mill and getting that cleaned up and setup the way I want.

Explanation of the pictures
1. Just a before picture of what we started with last night
2. The manufacture date and rev of my mill
3. The inside of the electrical cabinet as I received the mill
4. Just before removing the head
5. The mounting "box" that the head and pivot plate attach to
6. A look at the back of the pivot plate
7. Bearing rail model for reference HIWIN HGW25H 200RC-2202
8. The mill as we left it last night
9. The stand from the front
10. The stand from the rear with the back cover removed

[engnerdan]

Wednesday my motion controller arrived from Dynomotion. So far I have only been able to open the box and verify the contents but I must say that the controller was very well packaged.

-Dan

[Hirudin]

Thanks for posting so many pictures! This is looking like a fun project to watch.

In case you haven't seen it yet, I made some SolidWorks models of the Torus Pro. There's a little bit of discussion about it over here: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/novako...available.html
If you happen to be working with SolidWorks these models might save you some time. If you wanted to add to them to make the assembly more complete that would be cool.

[engnerdan]

Thanks for posting so many pictures! This is looking like a fun project to watch.

In case you haven't seen it yet, I made some SolidWorks models of the Torus Pro. There's a little bit of discussion about it over here: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/novako...available.html
If you happen to be working with SolidWorks these models might save you some time. If you wanted to add to them to make the assembly more complete that would be cool.

I actually am already using your models. I downloaded them weeks before I ordered my mill and started working out some ideas of things I wanted to do. Mainly the BT30 spindle. I have updated a few parts for my own use but if I get a chance to detail out any of the parts I will let you know and share it in your thread. I have already designed up a new headstock casting to allow the use of the BT30 spindle, a bigger motor if desired and it eliminates the rotary joint for tilting the head. Which would not be ideal for some people but I think it is best to have as few ways for the head to get out of alignment as possible. I am not sure if I will ever make the new headstock or just modify the stock one at this point. I am still waiting for my spindle that is now late. I might have to cancel my order and place it with another vendor that says they can ship one immediately.

-Dan

[LeeWay]

Can you snap some pictures of your saddle when you remove the table? I assume that is part of the plan to remove and inspect it. I mention this because of this thread.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/novako...ml#post1475050

Check out the last few posts if you haven't been following it. I know they are different machines, but still similar enough I think.

[engnerdan]

Can you snap some pictures of your saddle when you remove the table? I assume that is part of the plan to remove and inspect it. I mention this because of this thread.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/novako...ml#post1475050

Check out the last few posts if you haven't been following it. I know they are different machines, but still similar enough I think.

I am planning to take it down to the saddle to make sure everything is good, clean and assembled right. I have a bunch of pictures from this weekend to upload but I will not have time to post them until later today. One addresses "assembled right" as I cut an oil line in half traversing the table this weekend plus I made a discovery about the front covers this weekend when I tried to install the one that Ray send me to trade.

-Dan

[engnerdan]

Ok so a little weekend progress update.

First up I received the spindle/top cover from Ray to trade for mine. But when I went to install it I was in for a ugly surprise, it is not the same size nor is it interchangeable.


Here is a picture showing the mismatched color of my spindle cover and the motor shroud.


Loading the mill and stand up was a little interesting, it was a very snug fit to get the stand in the back of my truck and too a lot of careful forklift maneuvering. Getting the mill into the trailer was not as hard. It did end up getting late before we were able to leave the shop. My fiance was a huge help in getting the items loaded and secured.


This picture is not the best quality but it gives you an idea how incredibly well the base casting is designed.


I did not get any pictures of the circus act of getting the mill off the trailer and the stand out of the truck. I decided to hold off on the chip tray and all the stuff for now. This will allow me to work on the mill and move it around easily. I ended up going with the 3" leveling casters from access casters. These have a M16X2mm female thread on the top. I ordered bolts from McMaster Carr just for them. Those did not show in time, so I wen to the hardware store and spent $17 on 4 bolts and nuts just to get this thing together. After the wheels were on I noticed in the bottom of the box was a baggie with 4 set screws to use as studs and 4 nuts. So I think I spent like $25 on hardware I did not need to.


I had a little oops with one of the oil lines while making sure everything moves from limit to limit. I guess someone at the factory forgot to make sure this line was out of the way of the end bearing block. It really did not take much effort and it was sliced through. Not a big deal, but now it means I am going to replace a bunch of lines with soft copper since this one needs work. I also took pictures of some of the oil distribution blocks. I find it very odd that they are tucked against the sides so lightly when moving them back 1/2" would have allowed a better fit and would not interfere with anything.


One last picture, this is the spindle cartridge in case you have not seen one. Its got a different construction then most I have seen. The flange is not part of the body, it is bolted on. Some initial measurements lead me to believe that the Tormach BT30 spindle cartridge could very easily be adapted to this mill. This one measures 80mm in diameter just like the Tormach. The downside to that one is it is draw bar only as they sell it and it is only rated about 5500 RPM. I looked at using their spindle and machining it out and buying a pull stud gripper but the cost of a gripper is about $125-150 imported from China. Then I add in my time to figure out how to machine it correctly and make it work (without any mistakes) and now we have at minimum $700 in hard goods and my time. This is why I took my chances and ordered a larger 90mm spindle cartridge complete with the pedal pull stud gripper for a bit more money. On the note of spindles I was told today that I would be getting the DHL tracking number tomorrow for my spindle. This has me rather excited because the spindle is about 3 weeks late in shipping, partly due to the custom configuration I ordered and then to a bad bearing found while testing it.


That is all I have for tonight. I did score 2 1 meter long linear bearings used off ebay that are suppose to be a direct replacement for the ones on the mill. Nest up will be taking the table apart and replacing some of the plastic lines with metal, and making sure everything in clean and orderly. Then back to the headstock and figuring out if I am diving in with the BT30 spindle or going to start running the R8 for a while. Part of me wants to build once and not go back to rework, but part of me wants to get the mill running ASAP.

-Dan

[Hirudin]

Nice update; thanks again! Oh, and I'm glad to hear the model is helping, at least a little. If you happen to find any egregious errors could you let me know about them?

Cool! I always wondered what the bottom of the bottom casting looked like. Apparently not enough to stick a camera or mirror under it though. Ah, so that's what the spindle looks like - that's about what I figured.

Tough call with the "build it right or use it for a while?" question. :/ Normally I'd add my 2¢ here, but I really wouldn't be able to decide for myself either.

[engnerdan]

I have to sneak in a little early morning update.

While looking for 5/32 or 4mm soft copper tubing and compression sleeves to replace some of the lines under my saddle with. I stumbled upon a great webpage Fluidline Systems Lubrication Equipment Supply. Call 419-535-1313 They sell Bijur and Lube USA parts and its an online store. Typically you would have to go through a local sales rep or scoure ebay for exactly what you are looking for if you needed lube system parts. But not anymore.

I forgot to add an update on the Yaskawa spindle motor that I was struggling with. I took the motor down to my friends machine shop this weekend and hooked it up to an unused 208 3 phase disconnect. When I flipped it on the motor came right up to speed and seem to be running at about 1500 RPM like it should. But when I looked down at the clamp on amp meter I had placed on one of the lines to the motor I got scared. The meter was reading 175 amps, I snapped the disconnect off as fast as I could. I was going to test the current draw on each leg of the motor but when I tried the second one it did nothing, a quick check of the breaker and I found it had tripped (30 amp). I decided at this point to call it quits and just pack it up. Now I am hoping the seller I bought it from does not give me too hard of a time.

-Dan



-Dan