The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

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    Default The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Well I finally pulled the trigger and wired the money to Novakon last Friday (the 5th) it shipped yesterday (8th). Now I have 4-6 days of waiting for it to show up.

    As the title leads on, this is the beginning of a customized Torus Pro build. I special ordered my machine without any axis motors or controls in the electrical cabinet. While this may seem crazy to order a turn-key machine to not be turn-key it was the idea thing for me. I just do not have time right now to take on a "from the ground up build" and I could not justify buying a complete turn-key machine only to rip out all the things I wanted to do different. I work as a machine and controls designer by day, a college student by night, and an IT guy by the weekend. So fitting some servo motors, wiring the controls, and setting up the software are going to be the most fun parts for me. I am not sure where things will end up when I am done but in the "big picture" this is the tentative plan.

    1. Get the mill running in a basic form where I can make the parts needed for the next stage
    2. Start the design work for a new headstock to utilize a BT30 automatic tool changing capable spindle and a 3 HP 8000 RPM spindle motor
    3. Design a automatic tool changer for the mill.

    So far I have on order
    -Mill
    -Spindle cartridge
    -Draw bar release cylinder

    On hand I have
    -3 HP continuous 5 HP overload for 15 min, 8000 RPM Yaskawa spindle motor (for later)
    -Hitachi WJ200-055 5.5 KW VFD
    -Most of the relays, fuse holders, misc controls stuff

    I still need
    -Leveling casters
    -CNC controller
    -Servo motors
    -Free Time

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    Member Tkamsker's Avatar
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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Cool that is almost exactely as i Do. Only different i use European built Mill. My picture is to have a shrinked Bridgeport 4 12 which I right now refurbish on servos ...

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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    I am interested to see how it goes.
    I find the controls and electronics are a sweet part of my Torus. Nicely done really. That BT spindle should be something to see for sure. Lots of guys are interested in those.

    Lee


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    My beef with the controls is the parallel port based connection. It is a greatly aging interface that is nearly gone. I am going with the KFLOP which has its own processor for better control. I know it is a small detail but it is just what I wanted to do.

    The BT30 spindle is my biggest worry now. I have not heard from the vendor in a week or more. It is supposed to ship any day now but I do not know if it will be.



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    That is understandable. I know a move away from PP will be coming and probably sooner than one might think. It is certainly on the way out. I haven't yet decided which way I will go when the need arises. I know the availability and utility of alternatives are getting better every day though, so holding out may be the prudent choice.

    Lee


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    PCI May help -

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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Tkamsker View Post
    PCI May help -

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    If you mean an add in PCI card, yes that would work to add one to a computer. But that does not change the fact that is it an interface that is being used for something it was not designed for. To use a parallel port you are relying on the PC to be a realtime operating system and keep the timing of all the signals through the parallel port perfect. This is something that the PC and the parallel port were never intended for. Does it work on 100,000's of lower grade setups where a little miss timing is ok, yes. But there is a reason full blown CNC machines do not use a parallel port for running their servos. On an industrial machine the control of the servos is handled by a motion controller, in the form of an expansion card or external box that gets data from the computer. The motion controller takes the move data from some source (PC in this case) and does the processing to coordinate the moves and keep everything perfectly timed.

    In the hobby world we generally have 2 ways to interface a PC/computer/tablet with the CNC machine
    1. The simple "Break Out Board" - The name I assume comes from the fact that the original ones where just that a board with a connector for the parallel port of the computer and a bunch of terminal blocks to connect your drives to that correspond to pins on the parallel port.

    2. Motion Controllers - These have a standalone processor(s) that is feed information from the computer and then it does the processing and generates its own signals for commanding the motor drives. These seem to come in varying levels of sophistication. Some are nothing more then multiple parallel ports without a connection to a computer so signal timings are closer to perfect (USB and ethernet Smoothstepper). Then others can take in many signals, read in encoders and fully close the control loop for a true "closed loop" system. An example of this type of motion controller is the Dynomotion Kflop. I beleive this is the truest form of a true motion controller I have seen for the hobbyist/ amateur market. I am sure there are others but I don't know about them yet. In industrial controls there are many more advanced motion controllers availible but most of these I have seen are in the "thousands of dollars" price range and all they typically add is more processing power and more I/O.

    In my research into this I feel the kflops controller is the best bang for the buck. It can run with mach3, but it also comes with its own (kinda dull looking) CNC controller software for free. Dynomotion also offers several expansion carts, maybe better called adaptation cards. These cards give you added I/O capacity and expanded functionality to the KFLOP card. There is a downside to all this power and flexability, it is not the easiest to setup and it can require some computer programming. Additionally I have not found the documentation to be written for the beginner, I have had to read most of it a couple times and I have been working with industrial controls for many years. But for me I feel this card is a superior way to control my mill vs a parallel port driven "breakout board" and I feel it is worth the time and effort to learn the hardware and software.

    -Dan



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Dan,

    I hope you get your stripped Torus Pro soon. I'm looking forward to following your CNC build.

    Are you on the east or west coast?

    Titaniumboy



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    I am looking forward to the call from the freight company very much. I have to assume I will have my mill by Wednesday of next week.

    I am as far away from a "coast" as possible, unless you count Lake Superior. I am in Minneapolis MN.



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    That's callled inlocked.

    Lee


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Well I got a little surprise tonight, one of the guys at my friends machine shop sent me a text telling me my mill arrived. The surprise is the freight company never called me. I only had enough time to swing in and crack open one crate before we had to leave. Tomorrow morning I will head down and uncrate it all.



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Here is the option we went with to move away from the PP. Simple, easy and it comes with Mach software although in a much cleaner GUI. No learning or programming in C or C++.
    Have a look.Industry Controls



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    engnerdan,

    if you don't mind, how much did the machine cost you as you ordered it with no motors or electrical. Please, also can you post some pics of your machine and build.
    I'm quite interested with what you end up with once your project is complete. Especially in the BT30 spindle. That would be a plus as our shop already use that holder with an other machine. Will it perform better than what Novakon has available today and at what cost?



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Well unfortunately I spent the weekend in bed sick so I was not able to do anything with my mill. I did get down to my friends shop (where it was delivered) and get it uncrated but I will have to wait until next weekend to get the trailer out and haul it home. But I did get some pictures.

    Unfortunately my initial impression has be a little disappointed. But for a mill that sells for nearly $11,000 I expect more. When I got the mill un-crated and the plastic bag off I notice my mill was COVERED in greasy black hand prints everywhere, while not a big deal it seems to have set the tone for the rest of the un-crating. The second thing I noticed was paint and grime all over the linear bearings, and ball screws. It looks like someone has tried to clean most of it up but it is still there. There are incredibly precise parts and they have paint all over them. Then speaking of paint my mill and associated sheet metals parts arrived in at least 2 different colors of paint. One being a slightly off white and the other a blueish hued gray. The past point of disappointment is the spindle cover, mine has a HUGE hole cut in it and 2 holes for something to mount. I am assuming it is for the power draw bar but I did not order this option and sure as heck do not want a huge gaping hole in the front cover of my mill.

    On the positive side, it appears everything that was suppose to come with my mill is here. The heft of the chip pain was overwhelming, when I unbolted to and went to move it I was shocked at how much it weights and how heavy the metal is, it is a solid piece. The stand is another massive piece of metal, it is all it is suppose to be. I am bummed with myself for not realizing the new stand was an upgrade I could have ordered and I would have. I now understand why everybody modifies the old style stand. The crating seems to be plenty good, it took me plenty of time to get into each crate and none were smashed up when they arrived. I wish I would have not removed the side panel on the smallest crate, but the forklift had run out of propane and I did not realize the entire contents of the crate would come smashing out on to the shop floor. So now I will be reminded of my bozo move until I can find some color matching paint to touch up every single piece

    While the color mis-match bothers me a bit and the power draw bar hole is unsightly to me and a cover should be provided if this hole is cut in every mill cover. These two things would not keep me from buying this mill again. At this time I am still pleased with my purchase and I am looking forward to getting on with my build.

    A quick Pluses and Minuses

    Pluses
    1. Super fast order turnaround time. I sent the money after closing on Friday, money was received Monday, my mill shipped Tuesday and arrvied Friday
    2. Novakon was willing to sell me a custom configuration, which I had been through almost every small CNC company and one found 1 willing to sell a current offering customized.
    3. Crated well
    4. Very sturdy built stand and half enclosure
    5. I actually got more mill parts then I was originally quoted to get - A last minute bonus for me

    Minuses
    1. Greasy finger prints - not a deal breaker just unsightly
    2. Unexpected hole for the power draw bar feature that I can't use.
    3. 3 different colors of paint so far on my mill - again not a deal breaker.

    The pics,
    1. My lady ready to help me tear into the crates
    2. If you look closely you can see 2 different colors and a paint chip
    3. The huge hole I did not order

    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-imag4278-jpgThe order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-imag4281-jpgThe order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-imag4284-jpg

    Last edited by engnerdan; 04-14-2014 at 04:12 PM.


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    I can't speak to the condition of the machine as far as grease is concerned. I would imagine the parts you didn't need were actually removed from a fully functioning machine. Just guessing there.

    I haven't looked real close at my Torus, but I think the paint on it was probably close enough. I don't know about the color scheme on the Pro.
    Maybe some others can help there.

    As for the PDB hole, I would want that rather than not having it cut. All it needs is a plate made to cover the holes. I expect Novakon may be working on something like that for machines ordered without the PDB. Again, just speculation.
    I hope you start feeling better as well. I am curious to see what is inside the electronics cabinet at this point too.

    Lee


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeWay View Post
    I can't speak to the condition of the machine as far as grease is concerned. I would imagine the parts you didn't need were actually removed from a fully functioning machine. Just guessing there.

    I haven't looked real close at my Torus, but I think the paint on it was probably close enough. I don't know about the color scheme on the Pro.
    Maybe some others can help there.

    As for the PDB hole, I would want that rather than not having it cut. All it needs is a plate made to cover the holes. I expect Novakon may be working on something like that for machines ordered without the PDB. Again, just speculation.
    I hope you start feeling better as well. I am curious to see what is inside the electronics cabinet at this point too.
    LeeWay,
    You are right, Khai tool a complete machine and pulled all the controls inside the electrical cabinet and pulled all the stepper motors and wires for them. So I have a bunch of un-terminated cables just hanging out in my electrical cabinet. I will get more pictures later this week.

    The color difference between the spindle cover and the rest of the motor shroud was minimal. But the difference between the stand parts is very noticeable. Unmissable, I will take some pictures later this week. I am not saying this would keep me from ordering I am just no thrilled about it. I know there was no economical way for me to take a look at one before buying so my expectations are that this thing is going to show up perfect.

    The color mis-match and the extra hole in the front cover would not stop me from buying the mill again and so far I am still happy I got the mill for the price I did. Truth be told I did get more then I was suppose to get.

    -Dan



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Unfortunately my initial impression has be a little disappointed. But for a mill that sells for nearly $11,000 I expect more. When I got the mill un-crated and the plastic bag off I notice my mill was COVERED in greasy black hand prints everywhere, while not a big deal it seems to have set the tone for the rest of the un-crating. The second thing I noticed was paint and grime all over the linear bearings, and ball screws. It looks like someone has tried to clean most of it up but it is still there. There are incredibly precise parts and they have paint all over them. Then speaking of paint my mill and associated sheet metals parts arrived in at least 2 different colors of paint. One being a slightly off white and the other a blueish hued gray. The past point of disappointment is the spindle cover, mine has a HUGE hole cut in it and 2 holes for something to mount. I am assuming it is for the power draw bar but I did not order this option and sure as heck do not want a huge gaping hole in the front cover of my mill.
    This is interesting. We do appreciate the candid response both good and bad. We don't recall handling the mill to this degree that would cause excessive finger marks on it, but we did process the order in a very short period of time to get it out before the Cabin Fever show. We only had a couple of hours to accomplish the conversion. We did remove the axes motors and cables so this was the extent of the work involved. The electronics are installed by our shop in Toronto when ordered, so nothing was needed to be done here.

    We noticed in the picture you posted that you can see the the two stacked crates are reversed. We always stack the smaller coolant crate on top of the larger base crate. It is also pictured banded with one piece of strapping where we strap it with two. We suspect that the shipment was inspected by customs before it crossed the boarder. It is also entirely possible they opened the mill crate to validate the BOL against the hardware. We did not add the controller to the manifest so we are betting they opened the cabinet to make sure. Maybe in this inspection process, more of the finger marks were introduced. We am just guessing here, but inspectors just don't care if they cause problems in the course of their work. All this is speculation on our part here, we don't believe there should have been many marks caused from what we did.

    We are concerned about the debris on the ball screw. The screws are supposed to be protected during assembly and especially during painting. This is a situation I have to take up with the factory. Pictures would help me deal with the factory.

    The paint is a two tone grey paint. It was selected to be this way. They are definitely not a mismatch of parts.

    The spindle covers now all come with the doors pre-cut for the PDB. The last of the older uncut mill doors have long since been shipped out from stock. We do have a couple of options to exchange doors with other mills just buying the PDB option with older mills. We can arrange a swap from a list of eager customers not wanting to cut the door to fit the PDB. This can be a great benefit for both parties.

    We do appreciate the feedback.

    Regards,
    Novakon Team



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    I should start off by saying, I am not trying to bash Novakon or anybody with my straightforward review. I am just calling it like I see it. I may be blunt about things but I look at it all very analytically and try to cut to the facts.

    I can only touch on one point you had here right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novakon View Post
    We noticed in the picture you posted that you can see the the two stacked crates are reversed. We always stack the smaller coolant crate on top of the larger base crate. It is also pictured banded with one piece of strapping where we strap it with two. We suspect that the shipment was inspected by customs before it crossed the boarder. It is also entirely possible they opened the mill crate to validate the BOL against the hardware. We did not add the controller to the manifest so we are betting they opened the cabinet to make sure. Maybe in this inspection process, more of the finger marks were introduced. We am just guessing here, but inspectors just don't care if they cause problems in the course of their work. All this is speculation on our part here, we don't believe there should have been many marks caused from what we did.

    The spindle covers now all come with the doors pre-cut for the PDB. The last of the older uncut mill doors have long since been shipped out from stock. We do have a couple of options to exchange doors with other mills just buying the PDB option with older mills. We can arrange a swap from a list of eager customers not wanting to cut the door to fit the PDB. This can be a great benefit for both parties.

    Regards,
    Novakon Team
    It must be the picture, the crate with all the sheet metal parts is on the top and the stand is on the bottom. I know because as I opened the top crate in that exact position (fork lift was out of gas) all the sheet metal parts poured out onto the floor. This is exactly how it came off the truck. I can tell you there is no way they opened either of the small crates they would have shown signs of it. The wood would have shown it as the plywood does not take much prying to break.

    If the mills are all going to come with the cutout then that should be reflected in the information on the webpage. Maybe you can make a cheap plastic piece to cover the hole, that could be removed when a customer wishes to add a PDB. For me, I will not be purchasing the PDB because I have already purchased a BT30 spindle with automatic tool changing capability and that will use a air hydraulic setup that is on order too. I am willing to trade my cover in on an uncut one if someone on this forum wants to trade or I will see what Novakon offers in the way of a exchange.

    -Dan



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    How did you take the crates apart?
    I used a screw gun.

    Lee


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Thanks Dan. The more information we have, the better we can follow up and improve. It looks like one band did snap during transportation. I can't wait to get the new stands in, when everything will be in one compact crate.

    Regards,
    Novakon Team



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The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

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