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  1. #277
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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by mklotz70 View Post
    Why 50Hz?
    The reason is I am going off the very little bit of information that Fanuc puts on the information label of the motor. This type of motor is normally sold to work with a specific drive (or Amplifier). The label on the motor lists the motor input at 110-216 volts, and it lists the RPM's as 1500-8000. If the motor was running 100% synchronized at 50hz it would be spinning at 1500 RPM and 266.6hz would be 8000 RPM, even thought that will never happen it was a theoretical point to use to base my settings for the VFD on.


    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-motor-volts-vs-frequency2-jpg
    This graph shows how I have the VFD currently configured. It shows how I have the VFD currently configured. A short explanation for the voltage variation is with a fixed voltage the higher the frequency (of the incoming power to an electromagnet) the weaker the magnetic field created. So the spindle motor is this case is designed to make the full 3HP with 216 Volts input at 266.6 Hz. As the frequency is lowered the voltage has to lower too, in order to maintain the same total power output.


    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-zlin-gif
    This graph is just a visual aid the numbers are made up. But it shows what happens to the magnetic strength (or power output) with a fixed voltage being input at various frequencies

    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-2015-07-11-17-31-10-jpg
    Motor name plate.

    -Dan

    Last edited by engnerdan; 01-06-2016 at 06:40 PM.


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    Registered G59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by engnerdan View Post
    Well its 2016 and I am now done with school, graduated with a bachelors in Industrial Engineering. So with that done I now have time to get back to all the projects that I have been neglecting. So I spent the last week working on finishing my kitchen remodel and found some time to get out to the garage and work on the mill.

    The first order of business was to get the new spindle wiring in place and connected along with reprogramming the Hitachi VFD parameters. So here is the first test run of the bigger motor driving the spindle and running through the RPM range.


    This is the initial run with the motor mounted to the headstock and driving the spindle. The main purpose was to test the parameters/settings for the Hitachi VFD and check the scaling of the output from the motion control card to the VFD.

    Further work and testing will need to be done before this is 100% ready for use. With this configuration the no-load current draw is fairly consistent except at 1500 RPM/50Hz where is spikes to 13-15 amps. Additionally there is a weird harmonic or surging between 600-800 RPM that I need to figure out.

    Another milestone done.

    -Dan
    Wow, is it just me?, or the frequency squeal is quite loud??? Would get quite annoying having to hear that all day.
    The Fanuc motors are usually very quiet. Or maybe your phone captured the sound wrong?



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by G59 View Post
    Wow, is it just me?, or the frequency squeal is quite loud??? Would get quite annoying having to hear that all day.
    The Fanuc motors are usually very quiet. Or maybe your phone captured the sound wrong?
    The video sounds much different than in person, especially at 8,000 RPM. In person it is much louder at 8,000. But I think they noise you are talking about is at 2000-3000 RPM and that noise is the timing belt and in person it was not bad. I expect that once I have the cover plates on and the shroud is one it will be much quieter. With the motor free spinning it is nearly silent.

    I need to put an indicator on the motor side pulley, it seems as there might be a little run out with this motor like maybe the motor shaft is a little bent. But the weird thing is there is no vibration like I would expect to have, but instead it is just a sensitivity to belt tension. If the belt is tight it makes a bunch of noise at the upper end of the RPM's but quiet down low. If I reduce the belt tension then it get noisier down low and louder up high. If it is too loud with the covers on I may add some vent channels to let the air out. I have not calculated the SFPM of the belt with these pulleys, I may be exceeding the designed belt speed. 0-7,000 RPM's is very mild for noise from the belt. But stepping up to 8,000 the noise level goes up significantly.

    -Dan

    Last edited by engnerdan; 01-07-2016 at 11:03 AM.


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Thanks for the answer!!

    Don't have to be too bright to be me :)
    bluehandsvideo on youtube


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    At 3000rpm, you can hear the beginning of the vibrations and it seems to progress louder right through to 8000rpm.
    Did you check the pulleys for balance?
    If the motor is quiet on its own, I would guess adding anything to it( like a pulley), will more than likely be the cause of the vibration.
    After listening to your video again(with headphones this time), there is little to no frequency squeal. It could very well be the belt and as you said,and that should quiet down once the cover plates are in place.
    Either way, good job and congrats on your bachelors. With all the work you've done here it shows you are of caliber.



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by G59 View Post
    At 3000rpm, you can hear the beginning of the vibrations and it seems to progress louder right through to 8000rpm.
    Did you check the pulleys for balance?
    If the motor is quiet on its own, I would guess adding anything to it( like a pulley), will more than likely be the cause of the vibration.
    After listening to your video again(with headphones this time), there is little to no frequency squeal. It could very well be the belt and as you said,and that should quiet down once the cover plates are in place.
    The spindle side pulley should have been balanced from the factory (the whole spindle was to be balanced) and there are several setscrews in the balancing holes which leads me to believe they did it. The motor side pulley should be very near balanced, unless they is a void in the metal. The design has no asymmetry because it uses a taper fit bushing, but that could be where there is an imbalance because of the key way and slit to allow the bushing to compress. But with the spindle cartridge out of the head and the belt not engage in the motor pulley the whole works is incredibly quiet and smooth.

    This all brings me to my assumption that the noise getting louder is a combination of entrapped air between the belt and pulley escaping and a possibly harmonic that is causing the belt to flap around a bit. So for now I am not going to worry about it unless I start shredding the belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by G59 View Post
    Either way, good job and congrats on your bachelors. With all the work you've done here it shows you are of caliber.
    Thanks, its been a long journey that felt like it would never end at times but I am glad I stuck with it, and Thanks I always try to do things the way I think it best, which is not always the easiest.


    This last weekend I was able to put a little time in on the mill again. I got most of the enclosure bolted on to the chip pans. This was mainly a dry fitup as I discovered my tube of RTV silicone had dried up. I was missing a couple pieces in this photo as they were still in the house and I was too lazy to go grab them,

    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-2016-01-09-18-58-46-jpg

    I also put a little time into updating my HMI for the PLC. I am trying to create some useful screens for the operation of the mill. Because I have no clue how to modify the GUI code for the KFLOP to create these screens I am just doing it the way I know how to. I am still working on getting the PLC which talks to the VFD and eventually the servo drives, over MODBUS 485, configured but that is the easy part.

    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-00002-main-screen-png
    The main screen, it needs work as it is too busy but it has most of the content I want to see

    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-00004-diagnostic-png
    An I/O Diagnostic screen

    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-00006-vfd-read-png
    A VFD diagnostic screen.

    -Dan



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    If everything is aligned properly, noise from timing belts will generally reduce considerably after some use, as the belt "wears in" to better fit the pulleys. When I first got my Torus Pro, I was somewhat concerned about both the noise and vibration in specific speed ranges. But, after just a few days use, it quieted down, and has been nearly silent ever since.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    If everything is aligned properly, noise from timing belts will generally reduce considerably after some use, as the belt "wears in" to better fit the pulleys. When I first got my Torus Pro, I was somewhat concerned about both the noise and vibration in specific speed ranges. But, after just a few days use, it quieted down, and has been nearly silent ever since.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    Good to know, thanks. I have not run into this before but I have never run a timing belt this fast.

    I just decided to take a look for a design guide for the belt and pulleys I am using. I never bother looking into this before because I did not feel I had much choice because of the hassle of changing the spindle pulley. Stock Drive Products lists this "For the HTD belts, a speed of 6500 feet per minute"

    So doing some quick number crunching
    50 Tooth HDT 5mm pulley = 3.133" dia pitch diameter
    3.133*3.14 = 9.837 inches per rotation
    9.837*8,000 RPM = 78,700 inches per minute
    78,700/12 = 6,558 feet per minute

    I guess I am just a tad over the recommended speed limit. Now knowing that I am guessing that most likely explains why the noise gets so much louder with the step from 7,000 RPM to 8,000RPM. For now I will just focus on getting the side plates replaced and order up an extra belt as a CYA.

    -Dan



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    I was recently asked about the motor side pulley I used and became aware I never posted about it. So here goes.

    My motor pulley ended up being a custom made piece, because I needed it to extend out from the end of the motor shaft a good ways due to the design of the headstock casting and the modifications I have done to it. I started with a piece of aluminum timing belt pulley stock from B&B Manufacturing Timing Belt Pulleys & Timing Belts - Synchronous Drive Parts | B&B Manufacturing. Steel was my first choice but I would have had to order it and wait for it to be made at the time. I happened upon a remnant piece of aluminum pulley stock being sold on eBay at the time I was working on the pulley design.

    I decided to use a "QT" size QD tapered bushing to mate the pulley to the motor shaft. While getting the mating taper just right poses a bit of a challenge the pay off of having a clean, simple, inline solution that is self centering was a huge pay off. One of the main reasons for moving away from a straight bore was the tooling cost for me if I was to make the parts. I would have needed to buy a reamer for the motor shaft size, a broach and the associated parts (shims, bushing, second broach if I messed up the first one). Plus as it turns out the bushings are cheap, only about $13 each. The choice to go with the tapered bushing ended up being a very wise choice, when my first spindle motor died and I needed to make the beer tapper handles for my wedding I was able to rig up a temporary replacement motor and just swing by the local Grainger to pick up a new bushing for the 1/2" shaft. Again when I upgraded my spindle motor to the Fanuc unit I needed a 24mm or 28mm bushing, again a stop at Gainger and I $13 later I had the correct bushing.

    The pulley it's self is constructed from 3 pieces. The base part is a steel body with one of the belt guides built in. Pressed onto that is the aluminum pulley stock which has been bored to for a heavy press fit and then hard coat anodized. Lastly is the second belt guide which is also steel. The finished part looks a little goofy, like I messed up on the width of the pulley stock but that is not the case. I originally designed the pulley to accommodate 2 speed operation, with the 50th tooth section providing a 1:1 drive ratio and then I could add a second section of pulley stock for a higher spindle speed. If I were to do that I would need to drop down to a 20mm wide belt. If I were to do it over again I would most likely scrap that part of the plan and just build it as a one speed pulley and not have the extra stock.

    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-2014-08-01-11-10-30-jpg The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-2014-08-01-11-11-17-jpg The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-2014-08-01-18-25-55-jpg The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-2014-08-01-18-26-01-jpg The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-2014-08-01-18-26-07-jpg

    As for the drive belt, that was sourced from Amazon. I went with a 480-5M-25. Which breaks down to a 480mm pitch length, 5M is the designation for the 5mm HTD tooth profile (for the BT30 spindle) and 25 is for a 25mm wide belt, which was the widest I could readily find at the time. So far the 25mm belt has been plenty to handle the power of this machine, and if my memory serves me correctly is actually wider than needed for 3-5hp.

    -Dan

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-qd-bushing-specs-pdf  


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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    I had a question from a forum member about a modification I made to my machine that I guess I forgot to post before, so here it is.

    In an effort to stiffen up the head on my mill I have added two more bolts to the rotary joint. I am never going to tip the head on my CNC, I just don't have a need. I will deal with angles through fixturing or tool paths. The two bolts that lock the head from rotating are very sizable but are inadequate to properly constrain the head from flexing up and down. With the factory bolts at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions I added two more at 12 and 6.

    I think I used M10 bolts. The back of the head casting drilled and tapped
    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-head-mod-1-jpg

    The pivot plate modified with two additional access holes. These bolts will not be able to be accessed from the front because of their location. Well the top would not be.
    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-head-mod-3-jpg

    I used two 5/8" (1/2" thread) T-nuts from a strap clamp set for the T-nuts that go into the pivot plate. I turned the t-nuts down to be semi-round, taking just the corners off enough to fit into the machined holes I made. The M10 bolts passed through the 1/2" threaded holes just fine. I then used the 4 bolts holding the pivot plate to the cast iron box for adjusting the head when tramming it back in.
    The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro-head-mod-2-jpg


    I don't have a measurable means to quantify the change in rigidity. But I know that I had troubles taking cuts in steel along the Y axis before. I would get a decent amount of chatter and had to turn down the feed speed compared to the X direction. Now I don't have that. If I put an indicator under the spindle and push up or pull down on the head of the mill I still see a couple thousandths of deflection. This I attribute to the anemic column and the lack of medium to high pre-loaded linear bearings on the Z axis.

    -Dan



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    Great mods Dan,
    I've wished many times that rotating head was fixed. I have no use for the tilting aspect. Trying to tram is a pain, as every quarter turn of a bolt changes the reading on the dial indicator. Takes a while to get it right working both bolts ever so gradually. I'd love to see your MRR with the new motor setup.



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    Default Re: The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

    In case someone is interested this mill is now up for sale. Currently listed on Craigslist in the Minneapolis area. I have upgraded to a Haas to get simultaneous 4th axis without having to build it, so this machine needs to find a new home.

    https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/d...736443271.html


    -Dan



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The order has been placed - The beginning of a custom Torus Pro

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