Newbie Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

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Thread: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

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    Default Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Hey guys! I'm coming over from this post over on metal necks and yes, i'm very new to this, but i also see huge potential, i want to learn as much as possible about making these guitars! I'm not shy of sharing my work (once there is something to share, of course), i see it more as a learning opportunity.

    If anyone has any experience in owning/playing an aluminum neck guitar and could contribute a few answers:
    >An accurately measured egc neck thickness, this is vital to my study, and i can't seem to find it online oddly enough.
    >Does the backbow created by the truss rod and fret falloff at the high frets in traditional wood necks need to be accounted for when designing a completely aluminum neck? (from internet research the answer is most likely no but i want an owner's opinion)
    >How wide do the fret slots need to be for this kind of neck? Would they need to be wider than the standard 0.023"?

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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Welcome to the wealth of information on CNC Zone.
    I have been to metalnecks.com An older site still there good!
    Here is the question..... What do you want to do ?
    There are many here with lots of experience,
    maybe some of us have been there - done that...
    Warmoth, usaguitars have sites for neck choices.
    Tell ua what you are starting with and your CAD CNC experience please.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-neck-std-solid-top-jpg  
    Been doing this too long


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    So, I'm starting from scratch, no experience and no pre built parts, except the hardware (tuners, bridge, etc.) that i'm planning to buy. I want to make an aluminum neck, something between egc style and travis bean, it would pass through the body and attach at the bridge, but it will also have an entire aluminum fretboard. I do not plan to make toolpaths and program cnc machines, i have people who will do that for me, i'm only designing the 3D model in AutoCAD. I've asked particular questions in the first post, i hope they are clear enough, they are regarding the design choices made when making this type of neck. this is my progress so far:
    1 - The headstock design and it's many evolutions (it will probably end up being the one in the lower right corner since it seems the most safe)

    2 - the neck profile, i haven't seen a similar neck profile actually, i want it to be a T style like kramer's but not have the wooden fretboard glued on top of it, rather, have the whole thing out of a solid aluminum piece (the thickness of the "T" is 7mm, the width is at the first fret)

    3 - general layout


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_5-png   Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_2-jpg   Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_4-png   Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_6-png  

    Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_7-png  


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    First thing , is the "T" a standard extrusion?
    Calculate the weight, and stress, you will find out the "T" is way overkill.
    The .023 slots in wood will "give" when pressed in
    aluminum you may want to cut oversize and epoxy in.
    Is the headstock to be integral with the "T" ?
    eon billet headstock to bridge?

    Been doing this too long


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Thank you very much for your replies!

    Yes i was afraid the T will be too thick, although calculating for weight it seems like a tough calculation since i've put a lot, of weird geometrical shapes in, i will try to approximate it by tomorrow.
    I also wanted to do the calculations for the tensile forces but all i could find is the strings produce 457N of pull, i'm not sure what realistic model i can use to calculate this...
    I would love to have the T thinner and make the neck a lot lighter!
    Also, yes the headstock is integral to the neck, the middle of the body will be too, like this (only i haven't got around to drawing it yet):
    Travis Bean Unofficial Guitar and Bass Resource i think it's a good way of counter balansing the neck dive, even though it will ultimatively make the guitar heavier.

    And thank you on the tips for the fretjob, my co-designer and me were just talking about that! This is the only post that i could find that has information on fretting an aluminum neck:
    MetalNecks.com - Your source for metal necked guitars and basses.
    So your input is very helpful! How much do you think oversized will be enough? I'm thinking about 0.025"?



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Guessing now .187" - .250" for the top and .100" (or 4mm x 3mm) for the leg down.
    But to start with you need the heel and headstock to fit inside the aluminum billet.
    Then cut the neck for the wood inserts.
    This is to be a hybrid wood / aluminum ?
    Show us the design.

    Been doing this too long


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Well yes, i've planned to fit the whole thing inside the piece of aluminum, i understand this, do you think it would be too expensive? Budget is not that great of a concern right now though, it's more of a proof of concept.

    So the guitar will have wooden inserts on the sides of the "T" extrusion in the neck, i'm sorry i forgot to mention this! So you think it is safe to make it like this:

    I will try to calculate the stress, as soon as i find a descent model or something, all i know for now is there is about 457N of force on the neck exerted by the strings.

    I unfortunately have no actual concept art for the whole thing, but yes it's supposed to be an aluminum-wood hybrid. the neck will have wooden inserts on the back and it will be fitting into a firebird-style body with a mortise and tenon joint, similar to travis bean guitars, i plan to have kind of "rails" that go into the wood on the side. I plan to use a tune-o-matic bridge which will connect through the wood body and be epoxied into the aluminum heel, although i hope to use as little glue as possible. I think i will have most of it done by tonight so i will post then. (in about 5-6hours)

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_5-png  


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    My ebony fretwire slots are .025". The easiest thing to do would just get some scrap fretwire and scrap aluminum and make some tests.



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Hay guys! so i'm back finally, made a lot of progress in learning how to design in AutoCAD, talking to some machining engineers about how the parts can be made and learning about guitar design in general. The information on metal neck guitars is incredibly scarce and right now i'm trying to get help from wherever i can, whether it be a fellow forum poster or a guitar company owner! So i'd appreciate anyone's thoughts and opinons!

    So, here's how i'm imagining it at the moment:
    The neck is basically a standard T extrusion, with cutouts on both the neck and the heel to allow the wooden inserts to replace yet more of the aluminum material, and giving it a personally satisfying look.

    I have imagined it being machined with a 0.3mm backbow, that is, the edge on the bass side is curved from the nut to the 7th fret as to create a 0.3mm distance from what would be the edge's position if it was straight. from there to the end of the fretboard it remains straight. The treble side remains straight throughout.

    I'm almost certain i want to use a zero fret system, so there is a slight "step" where the nut should be. it is the same radius as the fretboard on that part (12"), and it is 0.24mm higher on the treble side, and 0.5mm on the bass side. The zero fret would go directly onto this part.

    The lower part that goes into the body (or the "bucket" as we like to call it), is very similar to what TB's are like, however, i thought it would be a "tighter fit" if the bucket had two "rails" on the side that go into the wood body and keep it perfectly in place. on the upper rails, there are two holes near the end. this is where it is intended for it to connect with the bridge. I want to use a tune-o-matic bridge and it's inserts should fit right into those holes, through the wood, thus even more solidly connecting the entire instrument.

    There are probably things i haven't mentioned but i hope you guys will ask. I'm open to any suggestions, i'd like to hear your thoughts on the project, anything!

    Here are a few quick screengrabs:


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_2-jpg   Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_3-jpg   Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_4-jpg   Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_5-jpg  

    Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_6-jpg   Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_7-jpg  


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Very cool, let's build it.
    if there is a good solid model from this design you can calc the weight of the neck.
    And get some weigh savings and FEA
    I have heard they are neck-heavy.

    Been doing this too long


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    So, i'm not sure about that, as this model was created in autocad and it is not "parametric" which is what i think it needs to be in order to be ready for manufacturing, i think i will need to re-draw it in solidworks or something similar, trying to import it from cad to sw doesn't work very well heh. So you think the specs are alright? My fear is that the fretboard part doesn't come out precise enough, especially the backbow. I've heard EGC makes them like that but the engineer that i consulted with seems not too keen on that idea, since a backbow of 0.3mm is part of a circle whose radius is almost 70 meters! I have no experience in making things in CNC machines, and i guess i'm just insecure about handing this over to manufacturing if something is essentially wrong with it. I'm extremely happy if you guys think it's good enough, i'll start work on the solidworks model.



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    It doesn't matter what cad the model is drawn in as it will get translated into most Cam systems
    Don't fear modeling the fretboard numbers, stick with this structure engineering and weight calcs, first.
    What version acad is it drawn in?
    what type of export?

    Been doing this too long


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    In essence, i drew it in the basic dwg format in AutoCAD 2016, not sure what to do with it from there on heh



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Use acad's export to iges, stp, sat X_T, file type



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Thank you so much! It will probably be a while until i learn solidworks a bit but for now it's at least importing a lot better, i will check back when i'm done!



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    OK so i'm very intrigued, it seems that if i put in 6061 alloy as the material, and try to evaluate it, i come up with this! Around 50% heavier than what i've read strat necks are, but considering that the part that goes into the body is contained in that weight also, i'm pretty happy with the result!
    Edit: attached a pic

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck-screenshot_13-jpg  


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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    The object is to design a functional design and neck,
    after the form,
    the task is to remove excess aluminum weight.
    and leave only necessary structure. (aerospace structure techniques)
    My aluminum neck weighs the same as maple with 10x rigidity.



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Wow yeah, i haven't really thought about it in terms of specific techniques like that, i will look into it, i was designing it by feel mostly, removing excess where i think it is not necessary and so on.

    How do you think we can test the rigidity before production? Is there a specific option in a simulation program for that? Or do we need to have prototypes and just test them physically?



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    With a good 3D solid model you can find a FEA analysis on fivver . com
    Weight is removed from the inside.
    I hollow it out and cap the neck with the fretboard of wood.



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    Default Re: Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

    Ah it's very good if i can offload some of the work to fiverr! haha
    Do you think i could get a toolpath drawing there? I've talked to some people to consider my situation. The machine operator we had in mind might not be able to draw a good toolpath for this, so it's either me that has to do it or someone that i trust will do a good job.
    Also, what might be a good CAM software to draw guitar necks in?



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Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck

Creating an EGC / Travis Bean style neck