Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi


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Thread: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

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    Default Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    Good Evening All,

    I've been sitting on two mori seiki slant bed machines for a couple years both with varying control issues. Basically resigned myself to parting off the controls and doing a retrofit.
    I keep meaning to sit down and write out a post with my intended plan at some point with a couple options, but never seem to get to it. Decided I was just going to start the thread and get some feedback on a few things.

    First off: Spindle Motor and drive. The drive is a Yaskawa Varispeed 626MT (7.5KW) It may be ok but I had some trouble with it back when I first started turning the machine on. First I got a fan alarm. Checked fan all is ok, re-installed fan and now have a overspeed alarm (without the machine trying to turn the spindle on) So I'm thinking I might have a failing drive.

    Option 1: dink around with drive a bit more maybe pull it an bench test it with the motor an see if I can get it running without the control attached.
    Option 2: Buy a new drive from Mactech. (I think I've seen him post that he or his company stocks new drives. If so I'd be interested in a price)
    Option 3: Replace the drive with something like a 7.5KW hitachi Sensorless vector drive.


    For the motor (pic of the sideplate attached) Looks like a High speed induction motor with a resolver attached. If I go with a new hitachi drive I'm thinking I would probably ignore the resolver. I'm not sure what the detriment there would be as the spindle has a encoder on the belt drive between the motor and the spindle. I'd be feed that encoder back to the centroid board which should give me rigid tapping ability as well as speed control. (Not sure that the encoder feedback to the centroid is going to perform the same job as the resolver did in that I'm not sure it will push to maintain a set rpm or not).

    For the servo motors Which are 400w continuous 2.0 kw peak yaskawa DC cup servos I was thinking I might try to change out the encoder and run them on gecko or similar drives, but I'm thinking in the end i'm probably just going to go with 1.0KW or possibly 1.8KW DMM servos and replace the servos and encoders wholesale.

    For the control I'm thinking I'll probably start with a centroid acorn. It won't allow me to control the turrent so I'm going to handle the turret, spindle clamp, and tailstock on a seperate PLC. Not really a safe way to run if you don't know the machine. Just meaning I'm aware that without interlocks I could absolutely unclamp the spindle mid cut and the control would neither know nor care. Long term if I'm happy with the centroid interface and actually pull this off I'd probably spring for an oak board with the plc expansion board and get it all running together.

    I'm kinda hoping mactech will chime in as I know he has some experience with the drive I have, and he a pretty big proponent for the DMM servos.

    My first instinct is to move towards a new modern spindle drive so I'll go with that assumption and ask the following questions.

    - Do I need to use the resolver feedback from the motor or am I ok not to?
    - What side effects will not using the resolver feedback cause?
    - Without the resolver what drives are compatible with this motor. (I'm thinking most modern sensorless vector drive VFD probably are)
    - Can anyone say with certainty how I'd set that drive up? (Might help if I knew which drive) I'm guessing I'd run 240 volts max with a base frequency of 50HZ and Max frequency of 172 hz (Motor can do more, but spindle is limited to 5000RPM) drive would be hooked up to motor 3 phase inputs and any thermal inputs. Would want to run the fan off a relay to come on at full speed on anytime the drive is active.
    - With encoder feedback to the centroid I'm guessing I'll be able to thread and rigid tap agree?


    That ought to be enough for now.
    Thanks again in advance for any input.

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    I recently did a retrofit on my Hardinge Conquest 42, similar to your Mori. My system was all Fanuc.

    I agree, talk to Mactec about the Yaskawa spindle drive.

    I replaced all four of my servos with the 1.8KW DMM units and have been very happy with them. One of the servos drives the live tooling. In my case, they bolted right in with no modification to anything with the exception that I did have to build a new mount for the Z axis drive.

    I replaced my Fanuc 7.5 KW spindle drive with an Automation Direct 10 HP GS3 sensorless vector drive. But because of that, I lost the spindle indexing capability, such as it was. The original indexing capability was pretty useless also, 1 degree accuracy. I have the external encoder connected to my controller, but I can't control the drive to do any positioning. I did order the encoder feedback module for the drive, but I haven't had a chance to install it yet, not sure if that is going to make much difference. It holds speed and will run constant surface speed just fine. I may just replace the spindle motor with a 7.5 KW servo motor & drive and be done with the problem. It would be nice to be able to do some profile milling and hole patterns in the lathe.

    I have my spindle fan wired to come on with the control power, which powers up everything except the servo drives and the output power to the various control system relays. The turret and other functions are tied into the controller so everything is properly coordinated. I think the Oak board would be a good investment.

    I can't address rigid tapping with the Centroid control, I know nothing about it. But I have not had any problem rigid tapping with my system and it is just using the encoder on the spindle.

    I'll be watching your build

    Last edited by Jim Dawson; 08-23-2018 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Correct grammer
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    Thanks for the feedback Jim,

    In your case I could see the reason to want a feedback loop from motor to drive where you are looking to have positional c axis capabilities.

    Mine will be a simple 2 axis lathe and I don't think the C axis would be of much use for me, not to mention I don't think the yaskawa drive is going to give me that kind of control of the spindle motor. I believe the resolver is just helping the drive make the right decisions based on speed (I.e. better torque characteristics at various speed ranges (particularly low speed I'm guessing). Although the drive won't know what the motor is doing I think running my feedback loop through the centroid will be adequate for my application. (Again I'm hoping mactech can give a true yeah/nay on what I should and more importantly shouldn't do regarding a drive).

    A 10 hp GS3 like you have is one of my top choices I mentioned the hitachi drive because I've used them in the past. I'm guessing the yaskawa would set me back more than all the other components I think I need combined assuming I go acorn on this first round. I'd have been happy with a QCTP on the machine, hence the reason why I'm happy to start with Acorn and lose control of my turrent for the time being. (It would still be manually controlled through the PLC) It is probably possible to have the acorn communicate with the PLC but that is for another time.



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    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    Quote Originally Posted by breathe View Post
    Thanks for the feedback Jim,

    In your case I could see the reason to want a feedback loop from motor to drive where you are looking to have positional c axis capabilities.

    Mine will be a simple 2 axis lathe and I don't think the C axis would be of much use for me, not to mention I don't think the yaskawa drive is going to give me that kind of control of the spindle motor. I believe the resolver is just helping the drive make the right decisions based on speed (I.e. better torque characteristics at various speed ranges (particularly low speed I'm guessing). Although the drive won't know what the motor is doing I think running my feedback loop through the centroid will be adequate for my application. (Again I'm hoping mactech can give a true yeah/nay on what I should and more importantly shouldn't do regarding a drive).

    A 10 hp GS3 like you have is one of my top choices I mentioned the hitachi drive because I've used them in the past. I'm guessing the yaskawa would set me back more than all the other components I think I need combined assuming I go acorn on this first round. I'd have been happy with a QCTP on the machine, hence the reason why I'm happy to start with Acorn and lose control of my turrent for the time being. (It would still be manually controlled through the PLC) It is probably possible to have the acorn communicate with the PLC but that is for another time.
    You should be fine, if you want / need to change the Spindle drive, if the Yaskawa drive is giving you trouble, it would be cheaper to get new vector Drive, the motor will run ok without the feed back, although it is always better to use the feed back to the VFD if you can, the faults you are getting may not be related to the VFD, try running it like you said with the VFD free from the machine control, are you running the VFD on single Phase or 3 Phase

    I think you can do the turret with the Acorn, I know some have turret control and they are using the Acorn.

    I would use the Dmm system for your replacement servos and drives, here is a video, this is a much smaller machine than yours, I believe he has his turret working with the Acorn control



    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    Thanks Mac.

    The turrents I've seen using the acorn are setup as an axis. I could probably do it by replacing the existing motor with a servo. Not sure I want to as long term I think I'll move to an oak board, and I don't have much plc experience so this should be fun learning anyway.


    If I change VFDs The top three contenders are: (in no particular order)

    Yaskawa V1000 ($1170 New) I'm guessing this is the best one. Probably more industrial quality???
    Hitachi Wj200 ($750 New) Some members on here work as dealers and quite good resources. Definitely some benefit there.
    Durapulse GS3 ($850 New) Known to be good quality. Know some people who have used them

    Is the V1000 really a better drive than the others. If it is I'm thinking I might save my pennies for it. You know once and done. I feel like I've heard of the other two standing up well in industrial applications too though. Guess it seems like yaskawa is the standard by which all others are judged.



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    Default Re: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    Also based on the motor nameplate that I would need a 20 hp rated drive? looks like it might draw as much as 53 amps and a 20 hp drive is only rated up to 56 amps i'm guessing a 15 hp drive might not be able to keep up with the motors demands.

    Does that sound correct?



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    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    Quote Originally Posted by breathe View Post
    Also based on the motor nameplate that I would need a 20 hp rated drive? looks like it might draw as much as 53 amps and a 20 hp drive is only rated up to 56 amps i'm guessing a 15 hp drive might not be able to keep up with the motors demands.

    Does that sound correct?
    Will you be using single phase 240v or 3 Ph, your original VFD is only 7.5Kw roughly 10 Hp, if that is correct 15Hp would do the job, if you are using 3 Ph then I would be using the same size VFD Drive, you are right Yaskawa is the most used and very well supported, sometimes you can find these drives new on Ebay at a good price, just make sure the Voltage is correct for what you are using

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    I'll be using 3 phase. I here if I was using single phase I'd want to upsize the VFD.

    Just like you said I just purchased a CIMR-VU2A0040FAA 10 HP Yaskawa drive new in box for $500 shipped.

    Will try to make some progress once it arrives. I'll need a little bit of time to save up fund to purchase the servos next. (I can fabricate adapter brackets in the mean time)



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    Default Re: Mori Seiki SL1H Retrofit Centroid DMM Hitachi

    Quote Originally Posted by breathe View Post
    I'll be using 3 phase. I here if I was using single phase I'd want to upsize the VFD.

    Just like you said I just purchased a CIMR-VU2A0040FAA 10 HP Yaskawa drive new in box for $500 shipped.

    Will try to make some progress once it arrives. I'll need a little bit of time to save up fund to purchase the servos next. (I can fabricate adapter brackets in the mean time)
    For a lathe it is a good idea to use a Power Filter and a Braking Resistor, you may already have these on this machine that you could reuse

    Mactec54


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