VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    US
    Posts
    311
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

    Hi, all;

    I've been fully switching my workflow to use my VM16F after weaning myself off the knee mill I've had.

    After learning the machine, I'm wondering what effect upgrading the spindle VFD has... I think Sportybob here has an upgrade to a Hitachi WJ200 VFD suggested, and I like that particular model. Has anyone done this, and does it improve the ability to use larger diameter tools, or rigid tapping? I've noticed a distinct lack of torque at slower speeds.

    Since I don't think I've seen the question asked anywhere, is it possible to change out the spindle cartridge for a 10,000 rpm unit? Just wondering, not too serious about this at the moment.

    I'm considering upgrading from the Centurion 6 to the modern linux based control system - can anyone tell me if the functions supporting a touch probe beyond just the basic "move until touch" stuff is in there?
    I'd like to get the ability to auto rotate the coordinate system to correct for a non level part. Is there a probe screen that lets you locate the center of a hole for setting coordinate origin?

    I read here that Sportybob can supply replacement way wipers, so I'll likely pursue that, too. Related to this, does anyone have a good solution for making the X axis sliding covers for the ball screws, the ones with the spring tensioning, work better? Mine get jammed whenever a chip or three makes its way into the joint.

    I'm using flood coolant a lot (from a DIY tank), specifically Extremecut 251c, does anyone have any suggestions for things to watch out for, like coolant getting into the space for the limit switches and ball screws? It's not forming a pool or anything, but the way covers are far from water tight at the moment. The enclosure mostly contains the stuff, although I don't have a chip auger, so I end up hand cleaning the filters a lot.

    Thanks for any experiences anyone can provide... now that I've learned the machine, I'm quite happy with it and want to see how far I can take it.

    Erik

    Similar Threads:


  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ USA
    Posts
    453
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

    I don't think switching VFD's is going to gain you much unless you are running single phase input and loosing some output because of it. I suppose you could upsize the VFD in that case and get some more oomph. VFD doesn't have anything to do with rigid tapping, you need a spindle encoder set up for doing that. What speeds do you have? If the machine is a 6k rpm machine and you are in high range on the belts, you won't have a lot of torque down low. If you need the torque, move the belts, set the parameter for low range and you'll have 3k rpm with a whole lot more grunt.

    Changing out the spindle for a 10k rpm unit should be possible, don't honestly know if there is a difference in the spindle and bearings, others more knowledgeable than I would have to answer that. You will certainly have less torque at lower rpm's if you do got to a 10k spindle though.

    I don't know much about the probing, but even my Centurion 5 Knee mill has axis rotation to account for crooked parts.

    Curious to hear answers on the way covers and coolant questions as my son just got a P1H which is pretty much the same as a VM16. We haven't seen any issues yet, but we aren't even really up and running (only had it a week). Still cleaning and replacing a proximity sensor that fried, and replacing the monitor that went kaput from the move.



  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    US
    Posts
    311
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

    Thanks for replying.

    Yeah, I am running on single phase, although my understanding is that the VFD would just draw more current through the other two legs to handle it? If I'm getting reduced torque I'd like to know.

    I was thinking the machine might have more torque at lower RPM if I used a CT capable drive of the appropriate size instead of the factory VFD, which I understand is a VT set up. Am I wrong? The installed VFD is a Yaskawa MC5.

    Right now the spindle max speed is just over 5000, which I interpret to mean I'm running on the low range.

    If there's a screen or routine to do probing on the Centurion 6, I haven't found it yet. Maybe it needs to be enabled?

    I had to replace a home switch on the Y, but other than that it's "just worked". Best machine tool buy yet.

    edit: Forgot to mention... I was talking about additional torque at low speeds, like rigid tapping seems to use. I do have rigid tapping installed.



  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ USA
    Posts
    453
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

    From what I know about electronics (and my knowledge there is somewhat limited, so don't take my word as gospel) is that the Vector drive VFD's are the best option for you. The issue with single phase is that in all but a few rare cases, when you drive a three phase VFD sith single phase, you loose from 25% to 50% of your output power. So, if you have a 7.5hp spindle, you would need a 15hp VFD to get full power to the spindle, that gets worse if you have a 15hp spindle... a 30hp VFD is going to be expensive and require a lot of incoming amps.

    Hi range or low range, you have to take the motor cover off and look at the pulleys. Then once you determine if you are in low or high on the pulleys, you set the speed range parameters accordingly to get the spindle speed you programmed.

    Probing is optional, there are parameters in the machine to enable it, but you might need other software, again, others would have to answer that question.

    As for torque for rigid tapping (nice that you have the option), at what rpm are you trying to tap and what size tap are you trying to do? I don't have rigid tapping but I do everything up to about 3/8" at between 700 and 1000 rpm. If I had rigid tap, I'd be running more like 2000-3000 on anything 1/4" or under. For larger threads than 3/8", I would be thread milling rather than tapping anyway.



  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    129
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

    The VFD should run the spindle normally but due to making up the 3rd leg you have reduced max HP before it draws max AMP's

    You do not want constant Torque VFD thats designed for specific loads



  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    508
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

    Hi Erik, you say you have a MC5 drive. I will assume that it is a 626MC5. These are NOT easily changed out for another drive. These came in 2 versions, 1. a single speed and 2. a 2 speed. the 2 speed uses a delta/ wye winding and a special contactor to switch between High and low ranges. I would need to know more about your machine.

    In general, you need to double the VFD to the spindle motor HP to get it to "perform" as a 3 phase machine. It may be more useful to consider a phase converter.
    Think like you have 3 guys pushing a merry go round VS 1 guy.

    You want Linux ? WHY. It would require updating the control for about 10K and gain you very little. except 3D graphics.
    (Want hot swappable USB thumb drive ? ask me about my Super SBC control update)


    I have no idea what a " Extremecut 251c" is.

    If your way covers are "jamming" it is possible you have bent covers or weak springs.

    Call me.
    952-288-6340
    Sportybob

    There are parameters for the probing, but, it still require the macros to make it work. These are generally written by the machine tool manufacturer. Yes, you can write your own. How is your math skills? see the parametric section of the programming manual.

    Yes it is possible to rework the spindle to 10K.



  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9506
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

    Quote Originally Posted by erikjgreen View Post
    Thanks for replying.

    Yeah, I am running on single phase, although my understanding is that the VFD would just draw more current through the other two legs to handle it? If I'm getting reduced torque I'd like to know.

    I was thinking the machine might have more torque at lower RPM if I used a CT capable drive of the appropriate size instead of the factory VFD, which I understand is a VT set up. Am I wrong? The installed VFD is a Yaskawa MC5.

    Right now the spindle max speed is just over 5000, which I interpret to mean I'm running on the low range.

    If there's a screen or routine to do probing on the Centurion 6, I haven't found it yet. Maybe it needs to be enabled?

    I had to replace a home switch on the Y, but other than that it's "just worked". Best machine tool buy yet.

    edit: Forgot to mention... I was talking about additional torque at low speeds, like rigid tapping seems to use. I do have rigid tapping installed.
    If your machine has a Yaskawa MC5 you won't better that no matter what you buy they are the best money can buy and are special for CNC use

    Mactec54


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?

VM16F - upgrade VFD/spindle - anyone done it?