Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown - Page 2

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Thread: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    What’s the CSM spindle? Is it better or worse than the one I have now, if it wasn’t broken?



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Quote Originally Posted by rl49 View Post
    Even if the cables were cut the servo drive wiring goes to terminal block TBB next to cards.

    He could unhook the card cage axis plugs and wires going to TBB from the axis cables, and the ground wires hooked to the upper terminal strip and fish them out carefully thru cabinet and back thru his spare cabinet.

    Granted a lot of work, I wouldn't do it unless he can get verification from previous owners that the csm spindle drive was operational and the spindle motor they sent with that drive was ok, and it has the side cabinet still attached with

    the shift contactors on the left side of cabinet looking at the door, that do the shifting for the CSM 3 speed spindle.

    My CSM spidle has 1 cogged pulley he would also need to change that as his spindle has a 2 speed belt setup.
    Ahh. That’s what all those contractors in the side box are for. Seems like a mess. What’s the point of shifting gears? More torque at lower RPM? Higher speed?



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Thats the huge black box in the lower left side of the cabinet.

    Mine is 12.5 HP the had a 12.5,15, and 20 HP option the 12.5 changes the ac wiring inside the spindle wiring to delta, to wye with 3 combinations and gives 3 speed ranges for more torque at lower speeds.

    I believe the 20 hp shifts with 4 ranges.

    Also does rigid tapping as it has a resolver in it that sends out a simulated spindle encoder signal to control, mine works well.

    They are howsoever very expensive to get rebuilt maybe sportybob will fill us in about how they work. Mine maxs out at 4500 but they had options to 10,000 rpm I think depending on your spindle bearings and a 2 step pulley setup



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Didn't see all your first reply a cf adapter can be fussy and I have seen where you have to set them a master and your hd as slave, how big is your cf card?

    Do you have a SBC card with a backplane?

    I have also had to use different brand CF cards on occasion.

    you should be able to put your newer control in the spare box worst case scenario would be getting acroloop.hex files from Milltronics if the ones from the older control do not work correctly with the CSM setup.

    They only charged me $100 the same as they want if you request a parameter backup file to be emailed to you IF they have it on file.



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Quote Originally Posted by rl49 View Post
    Didn't see all your first reply a cf adapter can be fussy and I have seen where you have to set them a master and your hd as slave, how big is your cf card?

    Do you have a SBC card with a backplane?

    I have also had to use different brand CF cards on occasion.

    you should be able to put your newer control in the spare box worst case scenario would be getting acroloop.hex files from Milltronics if the ones from the older control do not work correctly with the CSM setup.

    They only charged me $100 the same as they want if you request a parameter backup file to be emailed to you IF they have it on file.
    I finally got the CF adapter to boot. Somehow I managed to screw up the original hard drive so it forced me to take a different route. I put the CF card in and booted from the DOS 6.22 disk, once I installed 6.22 via the floppy to the CF card everything started to work.

    Before I was using format /s and fdisk /mbr and then copying over all the files from the original hard disk. In my mind, this should have worked but it didn't. Maybe I should have copied everything but command.com.

    What do you mean by backplane? Isn't the SBC upgrade just ditching the sim card, using a hard drive and a newer/faster mother board?

    I still have 4 cards plugged into the mother board, one graphics card and 3 motion cards.



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Quote Originally Posted by rl49 View Post
    Thats the huge black box in the lower left side of the cabinet.

    Mine is 12.5 HP the had a 12.5,15, and 20 HP option the 12.5 changes the ac wiring inside the spindle wiring to delta, to wye with 3 combinations and gives 3 speed ranges for more torque at lower speeds.

    I believe the 20 hp shifts with 4 ranges.

    Also does rigid tapping as it has a resolver in it that sends out a simulated spindle encoder signal to control, mine works well.

    They are howsoever very expensive to get rebuilt maybe sportybob will fill us in about how they work. Mine maxs out at 4500 but they had options to 10,000 rpm I think depending on your spindle bearings and a 2 step pulley setup
    I'm starting to think the spare cabinet was off a larger machine. So the CSM spindle could be an option but it seems it could come witch future cost? I don't see any machines past the P1 with this option so Milltronics must have ditched it for a reason?

    High speed would be nice, but the 6k spindle is already 1800 more than what I'm used to on my P0. I'm happy to have this machine for a little more rigidity, rigid taping, and the tool changer. Once running I will be able to be so much more productive when I get time in the shop.



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    No the sbc upgrade is putting a 1/2 size isa single board computer into a passive isa back plane google the terms passive isa back plane. Then google 1/2 size isa slot Single board computer .

    The early VM series had the CSM spindle option but as is my understanding it was expensive.

    The future cost is proportional to the condition of the CSM drive and condition of the spindle motor.

    I was just trying to give you some options without completely rewiring you present cabinet.

    I suggest you hire Sportybob to evaluate your options and point you in the most economical direction to get you going.

    Ron



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Quote Originally Posted by rl49 View Post
    No the sbc upgrade is putting a 1/2 size isa single board computer into a passive isa back plane google the terms passive isa back plane. Then google 1/2 size isa slot Single board computer .

    The early VM series had the CSM spindle option but as is my understanding it was expensive.

    The future cost is proportional to the condition of the CSM drive and condition of the spindle motor.

    I was just trying to give you some options without completely rewiring you present cabinet.

    I suggest you hire Sportybob to evaluate your options and point you in the most economical direction to get you going.

    Ron
    Ron, Thanks that makes a lot more sense now on the SBD, most SBC's have a CF for a hard drive on the board.



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    srcarr52,

    If you don't use your spare cabinet, I would be interested in the csm drive and spindle motor as spares for my P1H .

    Thank You,
    Ron



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Quote Originally Posted by rl49 View Post
    srcarr52,

    If you don't use your spare cabinet, I would be interested in the csm drive and spindle motor as spares for my P1H .

    Thank You,
    Ron
    I doubt I'll be using the CSM spindle and drive as I don't think they can be run on single phase.

    In my opinion, one of the greatest sellers of these old machines are that they can run on single phase.



  11. #31
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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Then Pm me with what you are looking for for price and location to see if I will pick up or arrange shipping as I have 3 phase and would like spares

    Ron



  12. #32
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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Hi arcarr, both cabinets have DC axis drives. and can be inter changed. The SD cards do require the 3 pin connector in the center of the board. ( provides + / - 15 vdc to the drive. The Glentek cards do not require it. I have connectors. but you can remove the RED / BLACK wire harness for the axis and reinstall them in the other box. each connector has 2 black and 2 red wires. one blk / red pair goes to the DC buss caps, the other pair goes out to the terminal board where the go out to the motor.
    In my opinion you should stay with a VFD. as the CSM is 1. expensive to fix. 2. it would be a BIG BOAT load of work to switch it over. The CSM can be run on single phase, but as with all 3 phase drives run on single phase you loose about 1/2 of the HP. If you want full motor HP then you need to install a VFD that is twice the motor rated HP... (if the motor is a 7.5 HP you need a 15 HP drive) I do this all the time and have replacement drives, installation instructions, and provide full tech support.

    The -C control has internal CR1A and CR-1C relays inside the control box, your machines CR-1 A and C are located on the 14 relay board. I would stay with the -B cause is matches your machine wiring. you can swap mother boards if you wish to. dump the hard drive and sim disk and go with the CF drive.

    give me a call and we can discuss your options.

    sportybob
    952-288-6340



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    Default Re: Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

    Life got in the way and this project and it sat for a while, I've slowly made progress while picking up parts I needed when I found them for a good price.

    I pulled the servo power wires and a cap from the other cabinet and installed it with two new Glentek boards. Last weekend the mill powered up and moved all 3 axis and homed out without issues.

    I have a LED backlit LCD screen to install in place of the dim and slow to warm up CRT screen, I've done a similar swap on my Partner 00 knee mill.

    Now the last hurdles are to replace or repair the VFD, get the spindle and tool changer working and clean the surface rust from the ways and table.

    I'm also missing the coolant tank, I'll probably just bend and weld up my own with a few chip traps in it and an oil skimmer. I've installed a belt skimmer in my P00 early this year and it really does a good job.

    I'll probably pull the Safetronics VFD out this week and open it up. From what I've read it's Fuji power supply module that fails and it seems easy to solder a new one in for a cheap fix.

    Two weeks ago I had the electromagnetic brake on the Z axis servo for my P00 mill fail, I couldn't find a 90v replacement so I ended up rewinding the brake myself. I'll start a separate thread on it.



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Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown

Milltronics P1 VFD meltdown