Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

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Thread: Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

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    Default Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

    I have a VM17 with a Centurion 6 controller. The machine hasn't been used for a couple of months and has now come up with a CMOS battery state low message. It tells me to "run setup utility" and says press F1 to continue. When I press F1 it goes to a setup screen with various setup options but I can't get it to select anything on that screen and I can't move anything to make a selection on that screen. It has an arrow I'd expect to move with a mouse but I don't have a mouse and no button on a remote keyboard (plugged into the front panel socket) does anything (the only thing that seems to work on the remote keyboard is F1 which gets me to this screen).

    Two questions::

    First, how do I replace the CMOS battery? I can't find a battery on the mother board (the spot that says "Battery" is vacant) but I can find a battery on the NCB card (Lithium 3.6v) - does the battery on the NCB card provide power to the mother board or is there one somewhere but I can't find it?

    Secondly, should I try to save stuff from the memory in the machine before I start trying to replace the battery? I can't get anything to work which would allow me to save stuff at the moment but if I need to do that I'll start going down that path.

    I'm thinking it's time to buy an sbc, and backplane, (is the PCA-6782D-S8A1E sbc and the PCA-6108E-0C2E backpane from advantech the best option?) but I am thinking I may need to download and save stuff first. I have a copy of my parameters somewhere (I copied them a long time ago and should be able to find that floppy and I think I still have the original floppy plus I have the original printed copy in case of emergency) but I've never copied DOS or any Milltronics program etc.

    I (hope I) have attached a photo of the computer box and the battery on the NCB card.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    Brendan

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?-computer-box-jpg   Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?-battery-ncb-card-jpg  


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    Default Re: Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

    going by your first photo it looks like the motherboard has a Dallas real time clock module
    which is a Dallas Real time clock IC and Lithium battery encapsulated in black epoxy resin

    on some boards the RTC is plugged into a socket which makes it easy to change

    other boards the RTC is soldered in and requires the correct tools and some practice de soldering IC's before you work on the mother board

    Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?-computer-box-jpg

    Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?-dallas-ds1287-real-time-clock-jpg

    Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?-inside_the_real-time_clock_ic-jpg

    john



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    Default Re: Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

    Plug your keyboard in at motherboard you should be able to set your cmos settings, john is correct on the Dallas chip. I just purchased a C6 control off Flea Bay and had same issue I was copying files off machine and after turning on a few more times it retained the settings.

    As far a doing your own SBC its cheaper in long run to call sporty bob and have him do it. Ive done 2 so far and it has cost me more in long run when you run into issues counting the time your not making parts, and sporty bob has the capability to test cards ncb or acroloops.

    The only reason I keep doing them myself is I'm a compulsive DIYer and I learn more each time on trouble shooting issues.

    Ron



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john-100 View Post
    going by your first photo it looks like the motherboard has a Dallas real time clock module
    which is a Dallas Real time clock IC and Lithium battery encapsulated in black epoxy resin

    on some boards the RTC is plugged into a socket which makes it easy to change

    other boards the RTC is soldered in and requires the correct tools and some practice de soldering IC's before you work on the mother board

    Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?-computer-box-jpg

    Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?-dallas-ds1287-real-time-clock-jpg

    Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?-inside_the_real-time_clock_ic-jpg

    john
    I don't mean to hijack a thread but when this happens on a normal desktop PC I just bypass the error and then reset the clock and all is well until mains power is disconnected and you have to repeat the process. Is there any reason why the op can do this? At least just to get his programs copied before he attempts to replace the battery? As a side note I would think although I don't know that once connected the mains power and powered up the rtc wouldn't need battery power any longer, but again I haven't got experience with this directly.



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    Default Re: Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

    Forgot to tell you when in bios the tab key gets you to the different main settings and the cursor keys should navigate normally. Once in bios Alt-H brings up navigation options

    Pugging in at motherboard bypasses all wiring from front panel to motherboard in back of machine that's 20 foot of wires on my P1H.

    Ron



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    Default Re: Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

    Thanks for the responses - they've been extremely helpful.

    I've ordered a new RTC which I figured will be best installed with a socket - mine does not have a socket at the moment. However, it seems from other things I've now read that failure rates on the RTC remove and replace process are fairly high so I'm also looking at the option of getting an sbc upgrade.

    I managed to get further into the BIOS settings by plugging my keyboard into the motherboard. I used a ps2 keyboard with an adapter (as I had previously tried at the front and onto the top of the keypad board without success) and, plugged into the motherboard, it worked straight away. I noticed the wiring that goes to the front panel for the "keyboard" only uses 3 wires - maybe that is enough for the keys used on the front controller but doesn't cater for all keys on the keyboard? Anyhow, I was able to get the keyboard working around the back. However, when I changed the date and time and then tried to "save and exit" the computer seemed to start again and came up with the same problem (and the old date and time) - there must be more I am missing there.

    I have contacted Sportybob and we're working out whether a long distance sbc update is viable - I sort of hope that ends up being the direction I go in as I'd feel more confident with that part of the machine updated (I've done a lot of work over the past year or so getting the other sections of the machine up to scratch but I've been wary of the older computer and data communications/file loading side). I have looked at the sbc upgrade option before and decided the cost is hard to justify for what I do but maybe this is "bite the bullet" time.

    Thanks again for everyone's help.

    Brendan



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    Default Re: Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

    Ozfab, The SBC kit is on the way.
    I put a kit together and tested on my bench with my C6 test control. When a control is shipped to me I go thru it and test and adjust several settings as needed. Due to the location and expense of shipping the control to me (from Australia) I made an exception of not sending me the control.

    The 486 /586 mother boards in some controls have a "Dallas real time clock" This is a 20 pin IC solder in chip. The DRTC is a good unit but the position they are mounted in is a real bugger to replace due to the multi level board it always seems to get an inner trace broken. Even with my hot air soldering station I have problems with the multi layered boards. :-(

    sportybob



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    Default Re: Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

    Hi Biqut, GREAT photos! this will help people understand what the "big" deal is in a Dallas RTC, The DRTC does more then just hold the battery. The mother board pictured shows one that can be "gotten" at. Most are located up against the outer most ISA slot. (Aaarg)
    Thanks for sharing the pics and knowledge. ;-)

    sportybob



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Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?

Centurion 6 CMOS battery low - repair or replace controller (or both)?