VM-16a back up and running.

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Thread: VM-16a back up and running.

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    Default VM-16a back up and running.

    I got my machine in the garage safe and sound. This morning I decided that since the seller stated it was the user control and not the computer I would try booting it on the kitchen table. I removed the vent screen, modified a vga cable to fit and fired her up. No issues on boot except a fit about the panel being bad (I had a standard keyboard plugged in to skip the floppy fault)


    So I start reinstalling things and try to boot the computer off an extention cord again with everything plugged in and an LCD screen plugged into the vga connector in the front. This time it hung on "initializing acro loops".

    I unplugged everything except the DB25 CRT connector, same issue. Brought the monitor to the back to plug it in and discover that 2 wires on a DB9 tied in with the crt connector are broken off. The db9 looks like they were soldered to 2,3,5 which suggests serial data.

    After unplugging the db25 and reconnecting all other connectors with a standard keyboard and monitor it boots up fine which is awesome. If I manually turn the motors I get a reaction in the following error.

    Next step is to test all home and limit switches and confirm operation, then apply 220v and see what happens.

    In the mean time, anyone have a picture or a pinot of the db9 tied to the crt connector on a cent 5, preferably with the SBC upgrade.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Best I can do C5 control DB9 to DB25 pictures and only wiring pin out in my C5 manual.

    Isn't SBC but when I upgraded my other control to a SBC I reused this same cable

    Ron

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails VM-16a back up and running.-img_1148-jpg   VM-16a back up and running.-img_1149-jpg   VM-16a back up and running.-img_1150-jpg  


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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Ron, my cable is different. Mine has only 3 wires to the broken one. I may just toss need to toss an oscilloscope on them and figure out which one is RXD vs TXD on both sides to figure out where to reconnect them. I may try calling sportybob tomorrow, didnt want to try calling on a Sunday.


    On another note, after applying power through the proper method, It woke up to the proper e-stop condition. When I hit the reset button, the contactor clicked and popped the fuse for the 220v-110v transformer. After some digging I discovered the 150vdc rectifier was shorted out. I will see if the local appliance repair shop has one on hand. If not, it has the part number NTE5324 and can be found on amazon.com for about 20 bucks and I can have it overnighted.



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Update. I replaced the bad bridge diode and solved my 150vdc troubles. Estop resets, everything looked good. But I couldn't command it to move. An mdi command would just sit there and not move and the spindle was barely moving. Then it dawned on me that to get past boot I had to unplug the db25 for the CRT. I assumed that without it, the feed override was I had unplugged the broken db9 and decided to try to boot it with the crt connector in place and bang, it fired up.

    All the axis move nicely, spindle had a bit of noise but that could be from years of sitting.

    So I don't know what that db9 is tied to, and I will still want to find it's proper pinout. But I'm giddy that it works and I have only put $30 into it since I started troubleshooting.


    Next step is to pipe air to it and see what fails there. But we are getting into the less and less scary to me items

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Update. I update to document problems and fixes for others that may come up with the same troubles.

    I piped air to the machine and found a good handful of leaks. I fixed enough of them to give the air compressor some relief, there are a few leaks left to patch yet. I then tried a tool change, it threw fits. after a few hours if troubleshooting, I discovered that someone had mislabeled yin and yout plugs backwards (not factory label on a few plugs). I got the plugs straightened out and the tool change cycle worked fine.

    I was correct that the spindle noise would clear up. it sounds smooth as silk now.

    I borrowed some cat40 tool holders to test the platter with and discovered that the old coolant had created a tar that had all the little spring loaded fingers gummed up. On top of that with a tool holder in the spindle it was obvious that the Z height was about 1/4" too low. When removing the tool, the fingers would go above the groove and the tool would drop as soon as the drawbar let go. When grabbing the new tool it would push down on the platter a and flex it a bit.

    I took the allen screw out of the bottom of the platter and brought it inside. I discovered that some grill cleaner I had bought at Sams Club years ago worked amazingly well at removing the gum (as in spray on, rinse off). I took the finger parts off and soaked them in the degreaser for about 45 minutes, then used pliers to break them free while oiling them to make them move again.

    After cleaning the Z height was still off. I dug up the validation code to get into level 3 settings (someone posted at one point not to post the code, so I wont, but a google search will pop it up). In the axis setting I was able to tune the tool change height pretty easily.

    The next issue should be a simple one. I think the vfd (not the original) is limiting the spindle rpm. I can command up to 1200 rpm and get a variation ( need to borrow a tach to confirm actual speed) above that, the display shows that I have commanded a higher speed, but the spindle doesnt ramp any further. It could be the VFD, or a setting I have not seen yet. I need to fiddle some more to figure it out.

    My belt covers are pretty horribly busted up around the screw holes. im debating pulling a mold off the originals and making some new fiberglass ones. thats a bit down the road though. I will also be picking up more of the Sams Club grill cleaner to clean out the enclosure, every inch is annoyingly sticky.



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    On my Partner 1 w/ Cent 5, spindle speed and range can be found under Parm (F7), Setup (F1, Proto3, 3), Misc (F5). Not sure if the spindle is the same as the Partner 1, but I also have to manually change the belt position to use either the low or high range.



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    The spindle issue was operator error. I falsely assumed if I set a spindle speed above the max it would simply force the display to show the max (enter 9k expected it to limit to 6k). After discovering my mistake and the fact that it does in fact have 2 belt speeds, it all makes far more sense and has been adjusted.

    Sportybob got me squared away on the DB-9. And I must say, he has obviously seen it all. I couldnt connect my monitor up front because when I would reset the drives the LCD display would go blank. It was still powered up, but the screen was blank, I assumed it was interference on the vga line. He told me to unplug the power from the triplite conditioner next to the computer and plug it into an extension cord. Ding Ding, screen started behaving perfectly. Mans a genius!

    I disassembled the entire user control to clean and repair a number of sticky buttons. The F1 key sticking down was getting annoying, and every inch was sticky from dried coolant.

    The machine still has a number of minor issues.

    The pneumatic system leaks a ton of air, a bit of soapy water helped me deduce that a significant amount is being leaked between the valves. Im guessing its just some cracked orings.

    Im going to have to figure a workaround for the triplite issue, I will call bob and see if there is a quick fix. If not, I will just bring a neutral in from the box(I always bring a neutral with my 220 just for suck an occasion) and put a 110v outlet in the cabinet.

    Im going crazy unable to load any CAM programs until I get a usb floppy drive or enable the networking. I would prefer networking as Im a huge nerd and have network cables run all through my house. I will probably ask about the cost of the usb floppy emulator when I chat with sportybob.



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Networking is the only way to go, once you have it set up you can drop out of the cnc software to a dos prompt at the root directory and xcopy /s /v the entire contents of your cf card or hard drive to folder you can create on your network computer share folder, instant backup of all files.

    I have a XP box on my network that the mills use, a P1E and a P1H

    If you do not have a 16 bit network card PM me I have 7 NOS cards and can send copy's of my config.sys and autoexec.bat files to help setup.

    You can have the card for postage cost.

    Ron



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    My machine has the upgraded single board computer in the centurion 5 control. It has an RJ-45 (Ethernet) connector on the board, not sure if that board has the networking chip built in though, I assume it does but my assumptions seem to be off lately. Getting it setup will definitely be a challenge for me as I have not run a DOS machine in 20 years (wow, kinda hurt to say that).

    So you dont push your files straight to the mill then? You save them to an xp "server" as the middle man, then the mill retrieves the files from there?

    I have 6 rack mount storage servers in my basement so having a special share that has special permissions to match xp wont be a problem.

    If the SBC doesnt have the networking chip set I will certainly take you up on the offer of a NIC that will work on this thing



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    I pull the cam files off the server share, setting up the mill as a dos share on the net takes to much conventional memory with milltronics software.

    I do have a Centroid t400 that when the lathe is on I can even push files from my win ten laptop to that control. The centroid dos software needs less conventional

    memory to run so I was able to run a dos share server booting before loading control software.

    I use tcpip and the xp box and is blocked from internet by router and just left the share open to anyone.

    That box has been on for 4 years now and no issues

    I did my own sbc upgrade and they have the ethernet port but both mills had hard drives with no sim card and I had them set up with the 16 bit card before the sbc

    When I did the sbc upgrade and got the latest software upgrade from Milltronics I just stuck the cards in the backplane and business as usual.

    If I ever run out of 16 bit cards I'll monkey with the onboard network chip.

    Ron



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Well, after an exhaustive search of my parents attic to find the old shop computer that has not been powered up since me and my wife started dating 20 years ago, I managed to get a few programs loaded from my laptop to the cnc.

    It runs like a dream. I switched the belts into high range. The high range pulleys still had the factory finish on them, I doubt this machine has spent more than an hour in high range.

    The following error on the Y axis is significantly higher than on the X. I will be spending today looking into why.

    My interpolated circles are also out of round by about 0.002". I have not checked the ball screw backlash yet. I found instructions on how to do it and will test it today.

    I'm still getting a brief screen blanking when my air compressor or the coolant pump comes on. I will try moving the drop cord that bypasses the triplite to the front of the machine so the screen power is not coming through the same pipe as the vga signal. If that fixes it I will install a properly shielded vga cable. I'm sure an old crt display could easily ignore a lot more signal interference than a modern cheap LCD.

    So far, nothing scary has popped up on this machine that makes me think I got a bad deal. If anything, I practically stole it.

    I still need to call sporty Bob about setting up networking, but I don't like bothering people if I can figure it out on my own even if im a bit slower.



    One of the next things I must research is the maintenance regiment. What parts need grease vs oil, which oils and greased and where to put it.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Hi Tipmann, where is this DB9 connector located? back up the pic a little. The only DB9 connectors ever used for video was the early machines with EGA VGA will be a HD15 as shown in Rleon pics.

    give me a call

    sportybob



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Sporty, I will be calling you tomorrow morning. I am going to need some pricing on pneumatic valves. I started a production run of 140 robot chassis sprockets. Just as I got my gcode set just about right, the spindle orient valve let go and started blowing off from a hole under it near the control end whenever activated. So now I have no automatic tool change. Who would have thought a 22 year old machine would act like a 22 year old machine. It should never break...jk

    I need to get the sprockets done this week. So I have to get the old girl limping to get this run done.

    Plan A is in the works, I cleaned the area and the hole extensivly with brake cleaner, then packed the hole and area with an incredible version of form-a-gasket.

    If that fails....

    Plan B is to swap the tool changer blowoff valve in and leave the blowoff unplugged. It only leaks when active, so it can act as a plug until a proper solution is used.

    And if both of those fail....

    Plan C is to resort the gcode to manual tool changes and just handle the parts a bit more.

    Regardless of how I get it limping I will be needing to replace the valves within the next month or so (timeline dependent on which plan I end up using).

    I must say, I absolutely love this machine. It has been a dream to learn to operate. It runs smooth and quiet, and has been so easy to find and repair anything that I have found to be wrong.



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    Default Re: VM-16a back up and running.

    Hi Tipmann, If you call out a tool# greaten than the # of pockets in the tool changer it will go into a "manual" mode. you can use up to tool # 99.
    so try making tool 1 tool 21, tool 2 to 22. etc.
    The control will prompt you thru the process.

    sportybob



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VM-16a back up and running.

VM-16a back up and running.