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Thread: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    Honestly that would be what I'd consider a hack shack . When a guy is making $100k+ parts the last thing he needs is someone else's error ruining a job because he didn't set the tool properly . Chinese tools can be ok but no where near better than the quality brands . Your not going to find many big shop throwing chinese tools into their machines
    Honestly, I thought you were smarter than this, the tool from the crib is not set in any way, how could it be, the only thing with the tool being selected, it is balanced and ready to be put in any machine, whoever is setting up the machine is responsible for the tool offsets and tool pocket did you do a time served apprenticeship, or self-taught.

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    Steel and tungsten carbide have a large difference in weight . The weight of the set screw vs the weight of carbide that is removed from a weldon isn't going to balance out 100% , even on a so called balance side lock . So , if that is acceptable then grinding a few though off an end mill with a pedestal grinder should not destroy a spindle

    When have you ever seen a Weldon type holder used on a 20,000 plus RPM spindle 6,000 to 10,000 spindles is about the limit for someone to use an unbalanced side lock tool holder, if you have ever used a balanced tool, you would know right away at the difference it makes to the finished parts.

    If you look at the likes of Datron they balance the cutter itself, you will find that any quality Weldon cutters are also in balance, by design. the ground flat on the shank does not put the cutter out of balance, the only part that will be out of balance is some of the cheap side lock tool holders.

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Quote Originally Posted by boydage View Post
    This is a good subject. Because often I manufacture parts with a height of 50 - 60mm. My home built machine, well, I haven't used an endmill larger than 14mm 2 flute except for my facing bit. It's not rigid enough for anything larger.

    So I either flip the part, not ideal it's an ok machine but not perfect. I would get a very small lip in the middle. Only a thou of an inch but still there.

    My question then is, say 55mm DOC to finish a wall, that's quite an endmill yes? What would you use?

    I actually wonder if I would get away with something like an 18mm 3 flute, new, sharp, taking off 0.2mm 55mm deep in a finish run. You have made me think about this. Thanks. Further thoughts?

    Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk
    It would depend how rigid your machine is, and how good the spindle is, I have long End Mills that can do more than 100mm deep in a pass, so 55mm is not much for a rigid Machine / Spindle

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Best way to waste a section of an end mill?-datron-cutter-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Honestly, I thought you were smarter than this, the tool from the crib is not set in any way, how could it be, the only thing with the tool being selected, it is balanced and ready to be put in any machine, whoever is setting up the machine is responsible for the tool offsets and tool pocket did you do a time served apprenticeship, or self-taught.

    .
    I was taking about the tool being set into the holder by some crib monkey , isn't that what you were talking about ? And a machinist is not allowed to change it in any way ? Thats not a machinist , that is a machine operator .
    As for questioning my experience . I served an apprenticeship . I've worked production and jobbing . I've done aerospace , deep sea , oil field , forestry , medial and military to name a few industries . My last few jobs came to me handed on a platter when I wasn't even looking something new . Why , because I have gained a reputation of getting things done right . Now I have a small shop of my own making my own products and I do my own thing , and humbly it's has been quite lucrative

    Seems to me your a guy who was a woodworker who bought himself a haas mini mill and wants to think you know everything about metal machining and want to be insulting towards anyone who disagrees with you . I recall a green coolant , I'm sure you will well remember that one . I recall you jumping up and down for the longest time that it was the best thing ever . Maybe you can remind me how that worked out for you in the long term . Did I not see a post where you said it almost destroyed your machine ??? You don't know it all , and I can easily admit that I don't either because it's a massive industry


    For what it's worth , I wouldn't use a set screw holder on a 20k spindle . nor would I use a shrink fit unless I was working in tight spaces . There are numerous other holders available which don't require the setup which is needed for shrink fit , and they can handle 20k no problem . I have used unbalanced and side lock on 12k machines which wasn't a problem for the machine or the finish . Above that balanced is necessary

    This thread isn't about you or I or . It's about grinding relief on an end mill which is easy to assume is not going into a high rpm machine . So if you want to be right , go ahead be right , I don't need arguments just because I am trying to help a guy with a simple 5 minute task

    Last edited by metalmayhem; 11-26-2021 at 02:01 PM.


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Worked well. Although I broke the first (really cheap) endmill right at the start of the wasted section. Brittle huh.

    That little lip grinder in the first pic. I've seen quite a lot of them for sale, approx US$1k out of factory. Do I look for anything in particular or are they pretty standard on the scale of things? Would be nice to sharpen even just a twist drill tbh.

    Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Waste = rubbish = trash

    Waist = narrow part in the middle of something



    "Reduced shank" is a common term for what you are talking about



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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Quote Originally Posted by boydage View Post
    Worked well. Although I broke the first (really cheap) endmill right at the start of the wasted section. Brittle huh.

    That little lip grinder in the first pic. I've seen quite a lot of them for sale, approx US$1k out of factory. Do I look for anything in particular or are they pretty standard on the scale of things? Would be nice to sharpen even just a twist drill tbh.

    Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk
    One of these machines lets you make any form of single lip engraving / milling cutters you need. (D-Bits) sharpen Reamers ends, some have attachments that you can sharpen Endmills Etc. as well

    When you grind a relief add a radius on the wheel, then they won't break as easy.

    There are a few things to look out for as some are not that well-built, some only have a small collet range, (which is normal for the high-quality machines), and can't do big diameter cutters, there are some though that take a standard R8 collet these do give you more range, but watch the quality of these machines, as they are not all built the same.

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    I was taking about the tool being set into the holder by some crib monkey , isn't that what you were talking about ? And a machinist is not allowed to change it in any way ? Thats not a machinist , that is a machine operator .
    As for questioning my experience . I served an apprenticeship . I've worked production and jobbing . I've done aerospace , deep sea , oil field , forestry , medial and military to name a few industries . My last few jobs came to me handed on a platter when I wasn't even looking something new . Why , because I have gained a reputation of getting things done right . Now I have a small shop of my own making my own products and I do my own thing , and humbly it's has been quite lucrative

    Seems to me your a guy who was a woodworker who bought himself a haas mini mill and wants to think you know everything about metal machining and want to be insulting towards anyone who disagrees with you . I recall a green coolant , I'm sure you will well remember that one . I recall you jumping up and down for the longest time that it was the best thing ever . Maybe you can remind me how that worked out for you in the long term . Did I not see a post where you said it almost destroyed your machine ??? You don't know it all , and I can easily admit that I don't either because it's a massive industry


    For what it's worth , I wouldn't use a set screw holder on a 20k spindle . nor would I use a shrink fit unless I was working in tight spaces . There are numerous other holders available which don't require the setup which is needed for shrink fit , and they can handle 20k no problem . I have used unbalanced and side lock on 12k machines which wasn't a problem for the machine or the finish . Above that balanced is necessary

    This thread isn't about you or I or . It's about grinding relief on an end mill which is easy to assume is not going into a high rpm machine . So if you want to be right , go ahead be right , I don't need arguments just because I am trying to help a guy with a simple 5 minute task
    What you posted was of no help, to anyone, it was how to do a hack job on an End Mill.

    My Posts are never about me, not sure where you could get that from.: confused:

    I have never seen any posts or threads of anything you have done, projects like photos Etc. you can find plenty of projects that I have done.

    A Woodworker that's a complement: banana: I wish I could say I was, but I'm not. I don't have to blow my trumpet like some do.

    Just to touch a nerve though, I have 11 machining centers in one of my shops, have 3 in my home shop along with Grinding / EDM / Injection molding and much more, woodworking I did buy a new 12" wood planer a month ago, but that does not make me a woodworker.

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    hack job or not it is done in shops everyday by professionals
    If my not showing off my products on a forum is a discredit to anything I have to say then so be it . I'm not going to show off my stuff to find I've planted seeds into the minds of a new group of competitors , or to prove a point to you



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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    hack job or not it is done in shops everyday by professionals
    This is defiantly Not done this way by Professionals

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    If my not showing off my products on a forum is a discredit to anything I have to say then so be it . I'm not going to show off my stuff to find I've planted seeds into the minds of a new group of competitors , or to prove a point to you
    If you have a design of something that you designed then it is yours, and is protected if you have a time stamped document, even a photo is protected, competitors are good, they soon die out if they can't match, your quality / cost of whatever you manufacture. you don't have to show your end product, just the machining of some parts.

    So, a simple way to help protect your product, is to put a drawing in an envelope and send it to yourself, the posted mail then has a date stamp on the envelope, this can help in protecting something that does not have a filed and received Patent Pending for.

    If you have something that is so special, then I guess nobody will ever see it, as you are paranoid that someone will copy it.

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    your like an ol crow pecking at the empty eye socket of a dead horse .

    I didn`t invent anything new , I jumped into a market that has many voids , I needed something and I wasn`t going to pay the other guys price when I could make it myself , it snowballed from there. The products are time stamped digitally in many ways and the people in the market know my products well , paranoia no , it is a wise decision to not share my work on a cnc forum where there are numerous guys with cnc`s wanting to know what they can make and sell
    Under normal circumstances I could carry a decent conversation on everything you continue to throw my way , but to have you immediately call me a hack for suggesting a simple remedy has left a bitter taste in my mouth , and in all fairness I don`t want to contribute to ruining this thread any further so I`m done with your bs

    btw , the woodworker comment wasn't meant as an insult or compliment . I have high respect for both trades but they are separate trades

    Last edited by metalmayhem; 11-28-2021 at 01:48 PM.


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    your like an ol crow pecking at the empty eye socket of a dead horse .

    I didn`t invent anything new , I jumped into a market that has many voids , I needed something and I wasn`t going to pay the other guys price when I could make it myself , it snowballed from there. The products are time stamped digitally in many ways and the people in the market know my products well , paranoia no , it is a wise decision to not share my work on a cnc forum where there are numerous guys with cnc`s wanting to know what they can make and sell
    Under normal circumstances I could carry a decent conversation on everything you continue to throw my way , but to have you immediately call me a hack for suggesting a simple remedy has left a bitter taste in my mouth , and in all fairness I don`t want to contribute to ruining this thread any further so I`m done with your bs

    btw , the woodworker comment wasn't meant as an insult or compliment . I have high respect for both trades but they are separate trades
    I only reply to your Posts, as I said you don't have to show what you copied.

    Woo Hoo! so you copied someone's design, no wonder you don't want to show anything. or even your machine shop.

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Woo hoo ??
    is there only one car manufacturer , is there only one bicycle manufacture etc , I stole no ones designs . Also theres not much point in showing off my shop either since it's only novakon and tormachs , dime a dozen machines and nothing to brag about

    Wtf is wrong in your head that you need to continue to be insulting and crawl up my ass . Says much more for your character than it does anything else



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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    Woo hoo ??
    is there only one car manufacturer , is there only one bicycle manufacture etc , I stole no ones designs . Also theres not much point in showing off my shop either since it's only novakon and tormachs , dime a dozen machines and nothing to brag about

    Wtf is wrong in your head that you need to continue to be insulting and crawl up my ass . Says much more for your character than it does anything else
    You posted this not me, I didn`t invent anything new, I jumped into a market that has many voids, I needed something and I wasn`t going to pay the other guy's price when I could make it myself here is the catch wording you used, I NEEDED SOMETHING AND WAS NOT GOING TO PAY THE OTHER GUY"S PRICE WHEN I COULD MAKE IT MYSELF.

    Copying something for yourself and own use, is in some cases, considered ok, copying something to sell, well we all know what that is.

    Yes, your character is really on show with what you are posting. The true you.

    Insulting has only been coming from you, my posts are a reaction from the Bs you keep posting.

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

    guys as in plural , multiple manufacturers making similar products , my bs as you say has been in reply to you challenging my experience , did I do an apprenticeship or was I self taught , I never post my projects but you do . My replies about what I have done or do have been vague for a reason , it is irrelevant to the op's question

    You want to call me a hack , thief whatever fine , my world isn't going to stop because of it

    Last edited by metalmayhem; 11-29-2021 at 11:58 AM.


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Best way to waste a section of an end mill?

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Best way to waste a section of an end mill?