FR-SE spindle drive trouble

[quickturngreg]

What is the trick to checking the base IGBT's?? I have the manuals from Mitsubishi, and can't seem to get consistent readings when metering the transistors. The manuals list a chart of test points and the values you should get, but man, it's tricky to decipher...

[cut more]

Well the saga continues...

I took the time last night to measure the voltages from the power supply. That was fun getting to the pins with my meter! Everything measured fine, according to the specs the voltage can vary 15% and nothing measured out of that range.
All the Led's that are supposed to be on are and the ones that are supposed to be off are off.

I also looked to see what happened differently than the identical machine I have next to this one. All the same Led's light up with the same commands.

I did find no reference 10v from the cnc when a spindle speed was commanded,But If I use the manual start button there is a voltage signal.
Regards,
Cutmore

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Greg,
I think the reason you get variable readings when measuring the transistors is that you could be charging the caps. I am pretty sure that as long as you don't get a reading lower than 50 ohms you are o.k.
I find the manuals a bit hard to follow sometimes too.

Cutmore

[quickturngreg]

Hey Cutmore,

Had any luck on getting the FR-SE back in operation?

Greg

[kevins75]

maybe this will help you out with the transistor checks

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Hey Greg,
No I have not had time to look at the drive yet.
I bought an old tube oscilloscope for $20 2 weeks ago and I have not had time to do anything but make parts! Maybe if I get the plasma cutting, routing, and lathe work done by tomorrow I can look at it this weekend.

Isn't having your own business and a full time job great?!


Later,
Cutmore

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Well I took the time this weekend to hook the scope up again and test the drive.

It seems the trouble is in the Inverter. When I tested the Ch45 to R131(lft side),and the Ch48 to R137(rt side) the trace is "fuzzy". The other test points seemed fine, and all of the converter traces seemed fine.

Does anyone know what parts this would indicate need replacement?

Thanks for any help,
Cutmore

[quickturngreg]

Hey Cutmore,

That's cool you were able to scope the SE-IO1 board and locate the bad firing circuits. I haven't bought a scope yet, but plan to soon, as I want to be able to scope these drives to help troubleshoot them.

The info I'm giving you is based on what Mits did to one of my SE-IO1 boards to repair it. First, Mits replaced all of the inverter and converter capacitors. This is standard procedure I assume, as capacitors are prone to go bad after a lot of years.

Then, only for the specific driving circuit found bad, Mits replaced the "hybrids", which are labled DK434, I believe. These are Mits specific transistor drivers, stand up off the board, have several legs soldered in, and are about 1 inch square.

The white ceramic resistors are original, thus not replaced. Mits also replaced the firing transistors, for the bad circuits only. The original C2939 or C4058 is not available anymore. Mits used a NTE2311 instead. You have to desolder the spider-leg heat sink to replace these.

I would recommend checking the related resistors and diodes to eliminate any problems there as well.

That's all I found they replaced. Thus, next time, I'm gonna be the wizard with a solder gun.

Good luck!

Greg

[cut more]

Greg,
I bought my scope for $20 from a guy who repairs tube radios and had no use for it. This scope has tubes in it and the entire chasis is made of copper. It is vintage 1951 with the original price tag of $199 still on it! I thought it was too cool not to buy even if it didn't work, But it does!

Thank you very much for that info. I spoke with a couple people on this and they told me the "Hybrids" are not available from Mitsubishi. I have not tried asking Mitsubishi but it probably is true. At least with your info I have some more things to try.

Thank you,
Cutmore

[steph06]

hello
i'm stephane from Nice(france)
i have mazak QT15 with FR SE 2 22K A-C spindle drive


i have problems with SE-I01 card
burn on CH50

have you value for DZ20 and D44 ? on CH50 line

"The original C2939 or C4058 is not available anymore. Mits used a NTE2311 instead."
possible to use BUW13A

i have not found doc on www.meau.com
help me
thank for your help
end sorry for my english

[cut more]

Hello Stephane,
Try this link for the troubleshooting procedures from Mitsubishi.

http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/site...Type=&OEMType=

I do not have the value for ch50 sorry.
"The original C2939 or C4058 is not available anymore. Mits used a NTE2311 instead."
I called a company called Newark In one, and ordered the NTE 2311 for $18 each. They arrived 2 days later. I believe they would ship them to France no problem.

DZ20 and D20 are probably just diodes so they should read in 1 direction only.

Hope this helps,
Cutmore

[steph06]

hello
thank for answer
it' ok for meau site just IE scripting disabled
for DZ20 > zener diode 3.6V 1.3 W
D44 > 1N4007
for 2SC2939 or 2SC4058 equivalent BUW13A or NTE 2311
i wait for components
bye

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Well I had some time to work on the SEI01 board.
I pulled it out and checked the 2 circuits that were "mis-firing" with my ohmmeter. By comparative measurements I found the Firing transitor for that circuit was bad so I replaced it. After replacing it the resistance reading is still lower than the other circuits making me believe the "Hybrid" also may be bad. I re-installed the whole drive in the vmc to test it. Now at least the spindle starts to spin without having to help it but it still shows a higher reading on the load meter than my other identical vmc. I put the whole drive from the other vmc in this machine the other day, and it worked correctly. At least I know it is only the drive. I tried to get one of the hybrids from Mitsubishi and they only sell them to their service centers.

Any one know where I could get one of the Hybrids?

Regards,
Cutmore

[steph06]

hello
some news
i have repair my SEIO1 cards
and all is ok now

3 DK434 was dead with transistor(c2939)
ch50 an 53 (phase R)>converter
and (why ?) ch49 >inverter

for test ch44 to 55
put your ohmmeter to 20 K ohm calibration
and test each ch
look on BNP-A7237-35A.pdf page 14 for test point
you must have Immediatly 2.17 Kohm +-0.3
if lower or upper or In load>> change DK 434
and re check with ohmmeter

to make a good job
change DK434
c2939 or 4058 with BUW13A or equivalent
resistor 100 ohm 1/2 watts
diode like D44 by 1N4007


I do not have DK434 anymore
but i search it for the future ....
If I find it I say it to you

regards
stephane

[cut more]

stephane,
thank you for the test information. I will check that tonight when I get home.

I am glad you were able to fix your drive. Hopefully you will be able to use your machine to earn back the money it cost to fix it!

Regards,
Cutmore

[cut more]

I want to give a big thank you to all who have helped in my quest to revive my Drive!

I have replaced the U channel base transistor, the diodes D44, Resistors(100 ohm), 1 transistor C2939, and the final culprit was the DK434 Hybrid.

Last friday I received the new Hybrid. So of coarse all work stopped for the night. Un-soldered the old burnt DK434,(LOTS OF FUN!) Then installed the new Hybrid which did not look exactly like the old one but hey, who am I to argue. So while the solder is still smoking I whip out the multimeter and voilla! I now have 2.16K ohms just like all the other channels. O.K. the moment of truth, Re-install the SE-IO1 card, power up the VMC, press spindle start.... The spindle starts now and will orient!

Thank you all for your help,
Cutmore

[gridley51]

Cutmore,
glad you got it going and posted all the info here to help others.It`s been a very interesting thread this.

Mark.

[bigbobomb]

/lknh/lh;.kjbh.kjb.khb

Cutmore,
glad you got it going and posted all the info here to help others.It`s been a very interesting thread this.

Mark.

[gridley51]

/lknh/lh;.kjbh.kjb.khb

What does that lot mean?

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Gridley51,
I just hope the thread will help someone else, if they have the same trouble with one of these drives.

It has been a learning experience and has helped me understand the deeper parts of my machine.

Always a good thing when trying to make a living with a piece of machinery, especially when they get quirky on a sunday!

Thanks,
Cutmore