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Thread: Mazak H 400

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    Well you were right Alan. It was the A/D converter. I didn't know what that was but i had a look at the board and found a removable chip besides the C1 chips that are for the type of board. I googled the number to see what the other chip was and it's an A/D converter so i swapped it out with the original bad board and all working fine again for now. I have ordered a couple of new ones.
    Thanks again for your help

    Regards Bob


  2. #22
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    The S11 is a drop in replacement for an S1. This is assuming you match the power ratings of course

    - - - Updated - - -

    The S11 is a drop in replacement for an S1. This is assuming you match the power ratings of course



  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudsy View Post
    Well you were right Alan. It was the A/D converter. I didn't know what that was but i had a look at the board and found a removable chip besides the C1 chips that are for the type of board. I googled the number to see what the other chip was and it's an A/D converter so i swapped it out with the original bad board and all working fine again for now. I have ordered a couple of new ones.
    Thanks again for your help
    Man. You got really really lucky on that one! It usually is something else that goes wrong and far more difficult to find. Congratulations!



  4. #24
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    The S11 is a drop in replacement for an S1. This is assuming you match the power ratings of course

    - - - Updated - - -

    The S11 is a drop in replacement for an S1. This is assuming you match the power ratings of course
    The chip with the Version would have to be the right one for the machine, depending on options i guess.

    Regards Bob


  5. #25
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    Man. You got really really lucky on that one! It usually is something else that goes wrong and far more difficult to find. Congratulations!
    Yes i think i probably was but i wouldn't have known what was what if you hadn't mentioned the A/D which i had no idea what it was. Only thing i noticed is i have 7% load on the Z when stationary. Now that would probably be fine on a Vertical mill but a horizontal the static load would be on the Y. I do have some ohm discrepancies on the Z R,S&T to earth compared to the other drives but the lathe that i took the board from is the same.

    Regards Bob


  6. #26
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    aside for a radical change (like a short or an open) I doubt those discrepancies are an issue (standard caveat of my armchair diagnosing a system, which is pretty darned hard...).

    On my native Mitsu interface (I still maintain that probably just the GUI has changed on the Mazak, but the underlying code is probably the same as what I have) there is a display where I can see the bit values for an axis. This is the raw data that gets converted to the 7% you are talking about. I personally find the bit values to be more useful, but it isn't the end of the world if you only have percentage.... Don't discount the connection on the DIP socket. It could well be that you had some oxidation and the A/D you removed is perfectly fine. Just an FYI as it might help.

    I'm going out to my garage and pulling out an S1 amp I've got sitting around (have three of them... long story!) to see what you mean by "C1 chips". I saw this comment last night while waiting for my wife to be discharged from the hospital. Needless to say, it was a busy night and I had other things to think about. But, now I'm home and everything is fine, so I'm curious....



  7. #27
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    I hope all is good with your wife. Hospitals are my most unfavourite places next to airports. The C1 chips are the version chips. There is a table in the manual that shows what each version does. There are quite a few differnt ones that are capable of different things. I did notice that those chips are totally different on the S11 . They only have one larger chip

    Regards Bob


  8. #28
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    Ah! I read it as "beside the C1 chip" instead of "besideS the C1 chip".... That makes more sense what you were trying to convey now. Yes, the AM6112 is the ADC. I'm still not convinced you are completely out of the woods though. I think your calculated "load" is higher than it should be, so I'm guessing that the myriad of buffers, analog switches and op amps that front end the ADC might still have something wrong. But, hey.... If it works, then give it a whirl.

    Yes, my wife is fine, thank you. She isn't happy right now though, but that is always better than the alternative!!! As for airports... they don't bug me nearly as much as the actual airplanes. I really don't enjoy being crammed into tiny seats with a gazillion other people and little ability to move... I begin to fidget... Ugh!

    BTW, the correct terminology for the "C1 chips" is EPROMs. These contain the firmware (or software if you want to call it that) which the 68000 family processor runs. These are also the chips that I harp on periodically. Under that label is a quartz window. You can shine an ultraviolet light on it for a certain period of time and you'll completely erase the chip. If you don't have the label on there, sunlight or even normal room light can eventually cause a bit or two to be lost. And, a bit or two can be really really bad. Plus, the memory retention on these was generally spec'd at 15 to 20 years. Now, these drives were all made in the 1990s.... If you do your math, you'll quickly realize that we are living on borrowed time! This is why I generally use an EPROM programmer, which can also be used as an EPROM reader, to retrieve the entire program on the chip so I can archive it on my computer. This is very useful if things go south and you lose your memory, so to speak....

    EPROM memory, like all memory, has changed over the years. If you look at the S11 drives, the DIP is physically larger. This is to provide for additional connections that are used for more address lines. More address lines means more ability to uniquely define a memory location, so in the end, the S11 chips simply have more memory in them which is why there is only one physical chip.



  9. #29
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    G'day Alan,

    just for your information. The Z axis started giving a bit of a shudder and found that a parameter on the axis drive relates to that. The parameter on the actual machine is Q4. I dropped the value in that and it's nice and smooth and the z is at zero % while stationary. The reason i went looking was that while it was stationary if i touched the ballscrew it was oscillating while at rest. I just changed the parameter a bit at a time until there was no wore movement. Will see how long it lasts.

    Regards Bob


  10. #30
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    Yeah, that is a classic tuning issue, and your fix should resolve the problem fully. The fastest way you could probably have handled this, however, would have been to do a backup before you removed the drive, then a restore after you put the new one in (I would recommend you do a second backup with the new drive in just so you can record the values there too... never hurts). That will change *all* of the values, just in case you miss one.

    Oh, in addition to your ears hearing ringing (subject to good ears!) you often can tell an oscillating servo by carefully touching it. If the servo is warm or hot (hence the 'carefully' comment... they can burn!), when it should be still, that is likely due to oscillation.

    Did you ever try the original ADC in the amp again? It wouldn't surprise me if you just had some oxidation on one/more of the pins and the chip itself is fine.... Or it could be blown. Of course, sometimes it isn't worth trying to cheap out... Just replace it.



  11. #31
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    Yes i tried the old board after changing the caps but same original error. I could hear a humming which i knew wasn't right thats what made me check the ballscrew. I had felt the motor when i saw the load on the Z at standstill but it wasn't hot though may not have been on for long enough

    Regards Bob


  12. #32
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    Default Re: Mazak H 400

    Hi Bob,
    The comment was actually directed to just the ADC chip that you changed on the new board to get it to work.... As for the old board, no, that would not be a tuning issue unless the old board was not the original one from when the machine was working (what I'm getting at here is whether or not the parameters were correct). My guess is that the old board has some structural problems with it, and it won't be a simple fix. The humming is an interesting thing though. That drive has a kick out relay that shuts down the whole DC rail when there is a fault. If you hear humming, that would generally be due to power going to the motor, which would require high voltage DC. So, it is a little perplexing as to the source of the humming... hmmm (wait, that is me musing, not the drive... OK, that was a bad pun).



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