Need to decide on new CAM software package...


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26

Thread: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    Hi.

    I'm at a point where I need to recommend to my employer which CAM software to shell out $$$ for. I'm working with a new 3 axis Haas mill, and we may eventually get a 4th axis for it. Right now I'm doing only 2d parts, but I need to get up to speed with 3d surfaces etc.

    I've been using Surfcam lately, and have had training in it (albeit from 2005). It's working reasonably well for 2D stuff, but I haven't used it for 3D stuff for a few years now, and then not much anyway.

    I've also had training (two semesters) in Mastercam, 2009 was the latest. At the time I landed a job where I had to use Gibbscam. I found GC to be fairly good at solids but a real PITA for simple drawing tasks. And it was the leader of the Update-a-week club. Anyway, taking a class in Mastercam at night while trying to absorb Gibbscam at work was a real head twister. So different. At the time I vastly preferred Mastercam.

    Have also used the following, with brief opinions: Featurecam (too controlling), Geopath (a bit primitive), G-Zero (interesting approach but not very flexible), Esprit (mill work not its strong point).

    Even used Bob Cad Cam for Solidworks for a short while. Not a big fan of that, either.

    I've downloaded and tried out Fusion 360, and while it seems pretty adept at solids it's a steep learning curve, and does not seem very appropriate for doing simpler 2d parts. I've yet to be able to get it to spit out code for a simple 2D part, for example. Mostly I've just used to view and dimension solid or DXF files that Surfcam can't handle. The price is right: $300/yr, but I don't expect that bargain will last indefinitely.

    So... it boils down to being between the latest Surfcam and the latest Mastercam, I suppose. Both are in the five digit level. Only need a single seat. I'd consider others but only if they don't have steep learning curves. As it is, Mastercam seems a bit more cryptic than Surfcam, but maybe it's just because I haven't used it for about five years.

    Any thoughts?

    Similar Threads:


  2. #2
    Registered robert copeland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    go with mastercam



  3. #3
    Member awerby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5728
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    A very capable but much less expensive alternative would be VisualMill from Mecsoft. It comes in a series of versions with capabilities that increase with each level, so you don't have to pay for more than you're going to use, but if you need more advanced features you can upgrade to a higher version (by the time you're into five figures, you're into 5 axes). If you're already using Solidworks, there's a version that plugs into that program. Check it out, it's not hard to use. 2D and 3D functions are available in every version. Check my website for more information about it.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    We're a small shop and don't have Solidworks, although I've trained in it.

    Currently I'm evaluating Mastercam X9, Surfcam 2016, and probably Fusion 360 as well.

    Just got through doing a 3D part with Surfcam. Haven't done that for a while, and it was interesting. Major problem is getting the software to recognize solid files correctly. Finally got a .dwg file to work, albeit with not enough layers and the mesh to interfere with dimensioning etc. But eventually got a workable program and made the parts.

    Right now just got through wetting my feet again with Mastercam, making a relatively simple 2.5 axis part, albeit with chamfering and radiusing edges. Seems like Surfcam makes these functions more straight forward, although I think with some customization Mastercam can do it just as well. Some stuff I like better in Mastercam, such as the ability to set the part Z0 to so many thousanths below the stock touch off, and then have a face mill do a series of depth passes starting well above Z0 and then gradually coming down to a Z0 finish, so the rest of the tools are at the right point. Surfcam won't do that, as far as I can tell. But Mastercam has no problem with it.

    Haven't yet spit out a program with Fusion 360. I find the interface to be awkward, but it does seem to be the best so far at interpreting solid files and drawings. Customers seem to have a penchant for sending crap and expecting us to make sense of it, LOL. The price is right on F360, I just think it will be steep learning curve.



  5. #5
    Activation process G59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    889
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    You should look into Featurecam by DelCam unless you have some reservations about them.
    I know it works great with Inventor and SolidWorks solid models.
    Of course a learning curve will still apply. But setting of Z zero is done as soon as you import the model and you can reverse Z if needed. Same with block/stock dimensions.
    It's pretty straight forward.



  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    Quote Originally Posted by G59 View Post
    You should look into Featurecam by DelCam unless you have some reservations about them.
    I know it works great with Inventor and SolidWorks solid models.
    Of course a learning curve will still apply. But setting of Z zero is done as soon as you import the model and you can reverse Z if needed. Same with block/stock dimensions.
    It's pretty straight forward.
    Like I said, I used Featurecam a few yeas ago and didn't like it. It seemed too controlling and inflexible.



  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    104
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    PM Sent



  8. #8
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    Update...

    Mastercam is looking better than Surfcam to me at this point. I'm more familiar with Surfcam and so can make simple part programs quicker with it, but I can see that Mastercam is more powerful and configurable.

    For example, I can make a nested array of parts with Mastercam to maximize material usage (yield). With Surfcam, I can make a linear array but without any capability to nest the parts (as far as I can tell). In a recent test, it means getting 14 parts out of the same size piece of material with Mastercam, vs. just 12 parts with Surfcam.

    Also many other little things that I can tweak in Mastercam, and I figure I'm only scratching the surface.

    What I don't like about these packages these days is how they nickle and dime. The entry level versions are basically just 2D and for 3D it's a hefty 50% markup with Mcam, less of a markup with Scam but the final prices are nearly the same anyway.

    Been playing with Fusion 360 a bit more, was actually able to generate some Gcode with it today, but it still seems to me it's not well tailored for a production shop. Might be good for a home shop, though.



  9. #9
    Member cadcam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    3578
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    PS, Surfcam will not be around much longer. as the company that owns them will be weeding them out. but if you buy they will give you a seat of one of there other software's.

    As for Mastercam you will get 3D surfacing with the Mill level but yes a big jump to Mill 3d were you get option of multi surface selection and more surfacing options.
    There is a lot pf power in the X9 that a lot still have not figured out. Also you around the corner from the new release of 2017 around the end of June.

    If you get stuck or have questions please ask.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Cadcam
    Turning Product Specialist for a Software Company, contract Programming and Consultant , Cad-Cam Instructor of Mastercam .


  10. #10
    Member dharmic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1422
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    Had a look at Alibre or PTC Creo?

    Both are feature based modelling packages which I found to be pretty intuitive to get up and running with, after an intro course. I don't know about Alibre's CAM. Creo's NC Machining plugin, though, I've found to be excellent. A lot of clever optimisation and the ability to tailor your post, set up tool libraries, tweak tool paths or just generate a fairly optimal toolpath off a drawing which - and this is nice - automatically regenerates on the fly if you make any changes to the source model. Last time I checked, about $4500 for the CAD part (PTC Creo Parametric 3.0), another $5k for the 3 axis CAM and another $10k or so for the 4+5 axis CAM if you ever go there.



  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    Thanks for everyone's input.

    After evaluating the latest offerings from Mastercam, Surfcam, and Fusion360, I decided to go with Mastercam Mill 3D today and we placed the order. While I don't agree that Surfcam is going away any time soon, it does appear that it does not have the level of development that Mastercam has, nor does it have the same degree of power and flexibility. I like Surfcam, it fits like an old glove, but I feel Mastercam is a better fit for our needs going forward. Fusion360 is still a bit too raw and its top-down approach does not lend itself, IMHO, to kicking out code quickly. It seems to be much more weighted towards the design end.

    I decided to jump to the higher level of Mastercam because while the Mill level does some 3d, it's single surface only, and we've had some parts to make with multiple intersecting surfaces that could be tricky to pull off with a single surface approach.



  12. #12
    Member cadcam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    3578
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    I am happy for your decsion on software. and my thoughts about Surfcam were not mine but from the company that owns the software. there booth was right behind ours at the last IMTS. I was given this info from them one of the folks at the booth..
    Your reasoning for going from the Mill to Mill 3D makes good sense.

    Remember we are here as you dive in and need answers. Also did the dealer show you the new version coming 2017?

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Cadcam
    Turning Product Specialist for a Software Company, contract Programming and Consultant , Cad-Cam Instructor of Mastercam .


  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    I have heard conflicting stories about the future of Surfcam. The latest I heard is that the current owner, Vero, intends to keep it on as the "Traditional" product, while offering various alternatives such as Edgecam. Mastercam seems like a standard in these parts, and I've had two semesters of training in it as well. I go to more training next week as part of the purchase price.

    Initially I was going to go with the Mill version, but then a combination of needing to do multi 3D surfaces as well as a month-long 20% discount offer made me decide to take advantage of the offer right away rather than having to shell up the full 100% for the upgrade later.

    The dealer mentioned a free upgrade to 2017 when it's released later this year. I'll be concentrating on getting up to speed on the X9 product for the time being, but it will be interesting to see what the next rev offers.




    Quote Originally Posted by cadcam View Post
    I am happy for your decsion on software. and my thoughts about Surfcam were not mine but from the company that owns the software. there booth was right behind ours at the last IMTS. I was given this info from them one of the folks at the booth..
    Your reasoning for going from the Mill to Mill 3D makes good sense.

    Remember we are here as you dive in and need answers. Also did the dealer show you the new version coming 2017?




  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    united states
    Posts
    94
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    Gibbs!!



  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    I used Gibbs for two years but while it has its strong points (like solids), I was never comfortable with its 2D drawing format. The whole thing with connectors and such is to me counter-intuitive and time consuming. Perhaps it's because I learned Surfcam and Mastercam first, I don't know. But Gibbs seems to have that unique approach that appeals to people with no prior CAD experience.



  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    united states
    Posts
    94
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    At first I hated that connector thing, and I will admit I didn't have a chance to use Gibbs for very long, ibuse Mastercam everyday, and what I really like about gibs was some of the toolpath options, small things, like it would automatically pick depth of spot drill to create diameter, so you can just pick a circle and it would know how deep it need to go to make that dia. Little things like that are nice, at least for me cause I do lots, and lots of holes!! But I never did use it for 3d, and I have no clue what it costs in comparison, have you used anything like UG??



  17. #17
    Member cadcam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    3578
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    Kawman,
    Did you know that you can pick a drill and then tell it what you want for the finish dia and it will go that deep. Like when I teach or use it for programming if it is a 3/8 hole and I am spot drilling I like to have a .01 chamfer after I spot drill so I tell it is .395 finish dia and based on the spot drill I get what I want.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Cadcam
    Turning Product Specialist for a Software Company, contract Programming and Consultant , Cad-Cam Instructor of Mastercam .


  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    Never used UG. I notice it has a section here, must stand for Unigraphics?

    The other thing I noticed with Gibbs is that they are constantly issuing updates/bug fixes. I'd rather they get it right the first time. I got burnt once with a bug in their post processor... rapiding to Z0 by default. In my attempt to address that, got a major crash (broke 1/2-13 bolts!) Luckily nobody injured and the only casualty was an ancient sine block. The other complaint I had is that it defaulted to using subroutines, couldn't turn that off. But that was all a while ago, back in 2010... maybe they've fixed it by now. Other issues were inflexible toolpath generation. For example, found I had to go all around a feature instead of just half way. Oh well.



  19. #19
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I use Autodesk Fusion 360 right now and I love it. Everything from simple parts with holes, pockets, contours, facing, etc. 3D toolpaths have also worked fine for me. It took some time but I'm making parts and that's what counts. I should have an opportunity to learn Mastercam soon and have a demo version to play with. It's a very capable piece of software but it's not intuitive IMO and a bit cumbersome. After I have some real experience with it I can do a true comparison. The fact that Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists and even businesses up to $100K revenue which is HUGE for me. Fusion 360 has 5th axis capabilities now and it's being worked on everyday. I won't tell you to go with one over the other. Thats a decision only you can make. For me, its fusion 360. But that could change after I get familiar with Mastercam. It's just much more cumbersome to start IMO.



  20. #20
    Registered oldjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    78
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Need to decide on new CAM software package...

    And Mastercam gives you great support in the forum eMastercam.com

    John



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Need to decide on new CAM software package...

Need to decide on new CAM software package...