Ventilators Machining

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Thread: Ventilators Machining

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    Default Ventilators Machining

    Hello group,

    I'd be surprised if this has not already been posted and if so apologize.

    By now it is all over the news that there is an immediate shortage of ventilators and an immediate need for services manufacturing them. Watching the news I saw the Governor of New York make a press relief there is immediate funds for making ventilators (top of the list) as well as other items (not related specifically to machining).

    Since there will be parts needed to be sourced out likely I'd like to start a forum for folks who would be willing to help in the war on the virus and likely get paid for doing it. I know that this might be a topic for commercial services but feel this is a better place to start (and hopefully leave the main topic) at. If we have need for specific parts we can always post each item under the commercial needs section.

    There are designs out there already. I will be contacting the State of New York with this idea, federal level, and news outlet to get the word out. Collectively we can pool together, make an immediate difference, and most importantly save the lifes of those in need of them !!!!!

    A chosen design can be decided (likely already) and from there each part can be sub contracted out to whoever is capable and willing to make them. I will cut and paste this thread to forward it.

    Best regards and advanced thanks!
    Mike Kendall



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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Hello again group, I have contacted the New York governor's office regarding this topic. I'm certain there will be individual parts that can be CNC'd and will post again regarding their response(s). This likely is the quickest source for individual parts that were already needed. Best regards, Mike Kendall



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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Quote Originally Posted by KE6CVH View Post
    Hello again group, I have contacted the New York governor's office regarding this topic. I'm certain there will be individual parts that can be CNC'd and will post again regarding their response(s). This likely is the quickest source for individual parts that were already needed. Best regards, Mike Kendall
    Unless you are certified to manufacture medical equipment you have no show of making such parts, even your shop has to be certified to comply, and everything you use to make the parts, ventilators for home use may be a different story but for Hospital use it is not going to happen, good thought and way of helping

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    There should be contingency plans in place for the production of this type life saving equipment. The World got caught flat-footed.

    Anyone who says "It only goes together one way" has no imagination.


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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    I thought I read that they were talking to the auto manufacturers about this.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I thought I read that they were talking to the auto manufacturers about this.
    Yes they are.
    Atm in u.k. it looks like the F1 teams and JCB that are based here will likely take on contracts.



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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Yes they are.
    Atm in u.k. it looks like the F1 teams and JCB that are based here will likely take on contracts.
    If you know what you are looking at when you talk about ventilators 95% of all the parts are injection molded or extruded, the few parts that are machined could be made in the thousands in one shop with turning centers so I don't believe that the machining side is a problem, the molding side would be the hold up as molds would have to be made to help with what is already being used

    The rest of the parts are electronic so I doubt that any F1 teams could do anything that any good normal manufacturer in this field can do

    If you want a Ventilator look on Ebay you can buy what ever you want from $60 to $27,000.00 the only shortage problem is caused by the people in panic mode

    Here are some of the main parts that make up most Ventilators

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ventilators Machining-ventilator-parts-png   Ventilators Machining-ventilator-hoses-png   Ventilators Machining-ventilator-hoses-2-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Hello group, Great feed back. For injection molding that is interesting. That should be able to be done really really fast.....I read one article that said Italy demanded their producer to be making them four fold of what previously was done. If i remember correctly that would bring them to something like 1,200 plus a month. There was an article for a hacker with a block diagram for a pandemic ventilator. This page is about 2017 from memory. They talk about how it was done simpler in the 50's. With the approval for n95 masks I would think a simpler and more universal (but still approved) ventilator would be allowed as long as testing was performed. But with plastic injection molded parts why are they so difficult to make in the first place? It just doesn't add up. If it is the electronics that should not be a show stopper either. USA still has electronic manufacturing capability for the defense industry as well as some other still being done. There are micro controller programmers until now (I know one who has run a company since the 70's). Was watching the news and they say there is potential for cases to climb into the 70k region next week in NY state. That is when everything is going to become like Italy. BTW China reported they are going to gift 40 ventilators to Italy along with their team of 300 people. That certainly is not much. They should be a little more transparent and use a more cooperative approach for these ventilators being made in a hurry in USA. Face masks, gowns etc they are tackling but the ventilators are not giving me a warm fuzzy that is for certain. Best regards, Mike



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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Hi,
    I applaud your effort to 'roll up up your sleeves and get stuck in' however there is still the nagging feeling that lack of certification
    will come back to haunt us.

    Even with proper certified ventilators people are still dying.

    When the dust settles and it transpires that some poor individual died when a homemade ventilator was used the health worker who fitted
    it is in big trouble. The defense 'that was all that was left' will not stop lawyers from hauling them over the coals. Nor either will the defense
    'but it was not the ventilator that caused this persons death'.

    Maybe we should kill off all the lawyers now as a sort of pre-emptive strike! Poor taste humour aside, how would you feel about having a homemade
    ventilator applied to yourself or your wife or daughter or mother or....

    Craig



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    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Depends on what the alternative is....

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Quote Originally Posted by KE6CVH View Post
    Hello group, Great feed back. For injection molding that is interesting. That should be able to be done really really fast.....I read one article that said Italy demanded their producer to be making them four fold of what previously was done. If i remember correctly that would bring them to something like 1,200 plus a month. There was an article for a hacker with a block diagram for a pandemic ventilator. This page is about 2017 from memory. They talk about how it was done simpler in the 50's. With the approval for n95 masks I would think a simpler and more universal (but still approved) ventilator would be allowed as long as testing was performed. But with plastic injection molded parts why are they so difficult to make in the first place? It just doesn't add up. If it is the electronics that should not be a show stopper either. USA still has electronic manufacturing capability for the defense industry as well as some other still being done. There are micro controller programmers until now (I know one who has run a company since the 70's). Was watching the news and they say there is potential for cases to climb into the 70k region next week in NY state. That is when everything is going to become like Italy. BTW China reported they are going to gift 40 ventilators to Italy along with their team of 300 people. That certainly is not much. They should be a little more transparent and use a more cooperative approach for these ventilators being made in a hurry in USA. Face masks, gowns etc they are tackling but the ventilators are not giving me a warm fuzzy that is for certain. Best regards, Mike
    Nothing is difficult to make it's time to get something like this into production, the number of molds needed could take 6 months to get a complete set of parts up and running

    Electronics that part is basic, it's the software that the different manufacturers have developed, this is not going to be available, I know DMM's owner ( yes that's the Ac servo company DMM | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER ) developed for one of these main Ventilator manufacturer's, an a logarithm that took at least 2 years in developing it

    I think there is more to this shortage than we can see, if you can still buy Ventilators as of yesterday on Ebay there is not a shortage, I think the gowns face masks and protective gear the doctors need is where the shortage is, 3M has it's manufacturing scaled up for this as do any other mask and gown manufacturer's

    Not everyone needs a Ventilator so 40 hospital level Ventilators is a lot, that's around $1.2 million worth

    I think the logistics will be the biggest problems moving what is needed to where it is needed

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Here is a good Video on Ventilators and how they work



    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Has everyone forgot about the regular Flu this is a disaster as well and it does not get this much attention here is the regular Flu data just for the USA this year there is over 10,000 deaths from it, they call it the quiet deaths

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ventilators Machining-flu-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Hi,
    its not so much that we have forgotten but rather that we hope that COVID19 does not overtake influenza.

    Craig



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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    If people really follow the social distancing measures advised by the health authorities, it should greatly reduce transmission of the regular seasonal flu and cold viruses as well as the novel coronavirus.

    Andrew Werby
    https://computersculpture.com/


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    Default Re: Ventilators Machining

    Great thread. It's nice to see that our community is also trying to help in these difficult times.
    I would appreciate if you could keep us up to date with these projects here. Perhaps we can then include the topic in our next CNCzone and IndustryArena newsletter to generate more attention.



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