Mitsubishi AC Servo Spindle Retrofit

[jlmccuan]

I have everything running on my retrofitted machine with Clearpath motors, Mach3, an ESS with MB3, but now need to interface the Mitsubishi AC servo spindle motor with it's MBS-SVJ2-37 drive. How can I connect the drive to Mach3 and maintain spindle orientation for tool changes? I have the specifications manual but it of course assumes you will use the Mitsubishi IO.

Similar Threads:

• Need Help!- Mitsubishi AC Servo Spindle Retrofit
• Need Help!- Mitsubishi AC Servo Spindle Retrofit
• Need Help!- mitsubishi meldas 320 spindle motor parameter help Mitsubishi AC spindle SJ-N 5.5k
• mitsubishi spindle servo motor
• mitsubishi spindle servo drive

[Jim Dawson]

I don't think it's possible to connect that drive to Mach3. It seems to require the Mitsubishi controller using their proprietary communication protocol. It seems that there is no analog or digital control possible with that drive.

[jlmccuan]

There is a 0 to 10vdc analog input for at least one mode and the specification book confirms that. And one of the connectors only has 2 wires attached. The step/dir or other movement is the problem with several wires to choose from going to the encoder alongside the connector with only 2 wires.

[Jim Dawson]

OK, I can't find that exact manual on line. But with step & direction inputs, you should be able to accomplish what you want.

Can you supply a link to that manual?

[jlmccuan]

Some of these are duplicates, some contain a page or two different material

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...13?usp=sharing

[Jim Dawson]

I sent a request for access, you should be getting an email.

[Jim Dawson]

I am unable to locate anything about a MBS-SVJ2-xx All of those manuals reference a MDS-B-SVJ2, which seems to be a different drive from what you have. I can see nothing about an analog input, I can only find an analog output referenced.

Maybe I'm just a bit dense.

[jlmccuan]

I misprinted the drive. It should be an MDS-SVJ2-37. I've looked at so many manuals, I'm beginning to go blind. You may be correct that the analog is an output.

I'm open to other suggestions, but finding a motor and drive that size is not going to be cheap and this is for a nonprofit makerspace who have already overstretched their budget getting this far. So far, the toolchanging, the mist and flood coolant, the XYZ axes, the custom touchscreen interface and a 4th and 5th axis have all been done and it's a matter of getting a BT40 tool to spin.

Thanks for all your help.

Jim McCuan

[Jim Dawson]

Maybe a hand crank?

That's quite a machine. I can only find one reference to the -37 suffix, in the fusing requirements, nothing in the other specs. I assume this is a 3.7kW unit?

Nothing I can find references a step & direction input.

This is the only spec I can find that addresses the control input (Method?). And I can't find a wiring diagram that shows it, at least nothing obvious.

[dm17ry]

I have everything running on my retrofitted machine with Clearpath motors, Mach3, an ESS with MB3, but now need to interface the Mitsubishi AC servo spindle motor with it's MBS-SVJ2-37 drive. How can I connect the drive to Mach3 and maintain spindle orientation for tool changes? I have the specifications manual but it of course assumes you will use the Mitsubishi IO.

i guess it's MDS-B-SPJ3-37. the only way to interface this drive is via a proprietary digital serial bus. there's no solution for mach3 exists, afaik

[jlmccuan]

Thanks, Jim.
Unless we can find a way to run this with a VFD our options are very limited. I doubt I could sell the motor and drive very quickly and we've put in a lot of work to get this machine to where it is. Is there another option using an inexpensive, lol, motor and drive that would work?

[Jim Dawson]

I guess it depends on how you define ''inexpensive''. I though $3400 for my shiny new 7.5kW lathe spindle servo was pretty cheap.

There are VFDs that are able to run permanent magnet rotors. It might be a bit fiddley to set up. I think the Automation Direct GS4 units can do this.

There are a number of references to this around the internet, here is one that seems to be reasonably well written Control Servo motor with a variable frequency drive I would not expect servo drive positioning performance out of one.

It is common for servo motors to have 6, 8, or 10 poles, rather the the more common 2 or 4 pole found in most standard 3 phase motors, so this is something to be aware of when setting up the VFD. You will need to match the VFD to the motor specs for voltage and amps. I would expect the motor specs to be on the motor name plate, you may need to search the Mitsubishi documents for better motor specs..

Getting it to position for a tool change might be a bit tricky. I was never able to do an index even with encoder feedback with my original lathe spindle motor, the VFD control was just not tight enough. But I did not try DC injection in that attempt, and the VFD did have that available. It might be possible to turn the spindle at maybe 1 or 2 rpm and just simply stop it with a prox sensor signal when it reaches the tool change orientation, I would expect that to be pretty close.

I'm still unclear as to the existing motor power. Depending on the motor power required, maybe a Clearpath 4 HP motor would replace the existing spindle motor. Would not be my first choice, but could be an inexpensive alternative.

[mactec54]

I guess it depends on how you define ''inexpensive''. I though $3400 for my shiny new 7.5kW lathe spindle servo was pretty cheap.

There are VFDs that are able to run permanent magnet rotors. It might be a bit fiddley to set up. I think the Automation Direct GS4 units can do this.

There are a number of references to this around the internet, here is one that seems to be reasonably well written Control Servo motor with a variable frequency drive I would not expect servo drive positioning performance out of one.

It is common for servo motors to have 6, 8, or 10 poles, rather the the more common 2 or 4 pole found in most standard 3 phase motors, so this is something to be aware of when setting up the VFD. You will need to match the VFD to the motor specs for voltage and amps. I would expect the motor specs to be on the motor name plate, you may need to search the Mitsubishi documents for better motor specs..

Getting it to position for a tool change might be a bit tricky. I was never able to do an index even with encoder feedback with my original lathe spindle motor, the VFD control was just not tight enough. But I did not try DC injection in that attempt, and the VFD did have that available. It might be possible to turn the spindle at maybe 1 or 2 rpm and just simply stop it with a prox sensor signal when it reaches the tool change orientation, I would expect that to be pretty close.

I'm still unclear as to the existing motor power. Depending on the motor power required, maybe a Clearpath 4 HP motor would replace the existing spindle motor. Would not be my first choice, but could be an inexpensive alternative.

It's not possible to run this motor with a VFD Drive, you should know better

[jlmccuan]

The data plate on this motor is gone and there is no place where it looks like it may have been. All I have are the manuals. Cost is a relative term. For some $4000 is a bargain for others it is out of reach. Like I said, we are a nonprofit which raises money by teaching STEM with a makerspace. Since COVID we have had to suspend classes and income is nonexistent. We've barely been able to pay the rent and keep the lights on and then only because my company supports it. I've found a VFD motor rated from 1000 to 6000rpm for under $500 and VFD's are everywhere. Any advice on selecting a VFD? Automation Direct shows "Out of Stock" on virtually everything.

[Jim Dawson]

The data plate on this motor is gone and there is no place where it looks like it may have been. All I have are the manuals. Cost is a relative term. For some $4000 is a bargain for others it is out of reach. Like I said, we are a nonprofit which raises money by teaching STEM with a makerspace. Since COVID we have had to suspend classes and income is nonexistent. We've barely been able to pay the rent and keep the lights on and then only because my company supports it. I've found a VFD motor rated from 1000 to 6000rpm for under $500 and VFD's are everywhere. Any advice on selecting a VFD? Automation Direct shows "Out of Stock" on virtually everything.

I understand your budget constraints. The supply chain issues have hit the industrial vendors pretty hard, the whole world is on backorder.

I'm still a bit unclear as to whether a VFD will run your existing motor or not. Some sources say it's possible with the correct VFD, but I have no direct experience with that. If you can find a VFD that specifically says it will run a permanent magnet rotor, could be listed as BLDC or something then that, then there is a good chance you could use the existing motor. In any case, running that motor with a VFD would not give you a servo spindle. With no data tag on the motor, we could make a good guess based on the ratings on the drive, there should be a data tag on it. At least that should give an upper limit. Mitsubishi may also make another drive type that is compatible with that motor and used a more standard industrial interface, rather than the proprietary interface that your current drive has.

What are the specs on the motor you found? You basically need to match the VFD to the motor specs as far as voltage and current. To run a spindle you will want sensorless vector control, could be called SVC, SV, or something else. Just depends on how the marketing department chooses to advertise it.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
some years ago I bought a near new 3kW Italian made servo from the early 90's in re-built condition. My intention was to use it as a spindle motor.
It has a resolver rather than an encoder. Trying to find a drive was difficult and anything that looked even close was out of my price range.

I tried running it with a VFD. It worked but not very well. An AC servo is a synchronous motor whereas ordinary spindle motor are asynchronous
and have a squirrel cage rotor. Without the squirrel cage rage the servo did not perform very well, if it slipped a pole it would tend to stall, more like a stepper.

Electronics is my thing so I decided to make my own drive....well that has turned into a great challenge. I mean 'why buy something
when I could spend ten times to make my own!'

Craig

[dazp1976]

I have everything running on my retrofitted machine with Clearpath motors, Mach3, an ESS with MB3, but now need to interface the Mitsubishi AC servo spindle motor with it's MBS-SVJ2-37 drive. How can I connect the drive to Mach3 and maintain spindle orientation for tool changes? I have the specifications manual but it of course assumes you will use the Mitsubishi IO.

Have you considered looking on Aliexpress at Delta servos?.
Might be a good option to get the machine working.
Use a pulley to get the correct ratio to get desired top speed.

[mactec54]

The data plate on this motor is gone and there is no place where it looks like it may have been. All I have are the manuals. Cost is a relative term. For some $4000 is a bargain for others it is out of reach. Like I said, we are a nonprofit which raises money by teaching STEM with a makerspace. Since COVID we have had to suspend classes and income is nonexistent. We've barely been able to pay the rent and keep the lights on and then only because my company supports it. I've found a VFD motor rated from 1000 to 6000rpm for under $500 and VFD's are everywhere. Any advice on selecting a VFD? Automation Direct shows "Out of Stock" on virtually everything.

Is the motor a AC 3 phase motor specs of the motor would be good, there are a number of VFD Drives that can run AC 3Phase motor

Are you using single Phase Power supply or 3 Phase this makes a difference for VFD Drive sizing

[mactec54]

I understand your budget constraints. The supply chain issues have hit the industrial vendors pretty hard, the whole world is on backorder.

I'm still a bit unclear as to whether a VFD will run your existing motor or not. Some sources say it's possible with the correct VFD, but I have no direct experience with that. If you can find a VFD that specifically says it will run a permanent magnet rotor, could be listed as BLDC or something then that, then there is a good chance you could use the existing motor. In any case, running that motor with a VFD would not give you a servo spindle. With no data tag on the motor, we could make a good guess based on the ratings on the drive, there should be a data tag on it. At least that should give an upper limit. Mitsubishi may also make another drive type that is compatible with that motor and used a more standard industrial interface, rather than the proprietary interface that your current drive has.

What are the specs on the motor you found? You basically need to match the VFD to the motor specs as far as voltage and current. To run a spindle you will want sensorless vector control, could be called SVC, SV, or something else. Just depends on how the marketing department chooses to advertise it.

Mitsubishi will tell you that it is for their proprietary control use only, there are no exceptions you are flogging a dead horse

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Many of Mitsubishi's servo drives are bus protocol types, like the one you have. They do however also make ordinary servo drives. You might find that one of that series of drives will
match your motor.

Have you researched Mitsubishi MR-5-A servo drives. They are pulse input, that is Step/Dir and analogue voltage input Velocity and Torque modes.

https://dl.mitsubishielectric.com/dl...030296engf.pdf

No harm in looking.

Craig